Safe or satanic? Church leaders argue over Freemasonry

"By Damion Mitchell, Staff Reporter

ANGLICAN CHURCHMEN who are Freemasons have come out in firm defence against charges that they are involved in a 'secret and satanic' operation.

The charges were made by other church leaders who insisted yesterday at the Gleaner's Editors' Forum that "lodges of whatever sort are satanic and not sacred and that the Jamaican society should come out against the movement."

They said that the oaths taken by lodge members demand secrecy and exercise practices which are not consistent with Christian principles.

Membership in Masonic Lodges became an issue at the Sydney Anglican Synod in Australia last month. A motion was passed that said that Freemasonry and Christianity were "fundamentally and irreconcilably incompatible"."



www.jamaica-gleaner.com...


[edit on 24-4-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

What does this demonstrate other than that some Ozian anglican officials don't like freemasonry?

What evidence did they present that supports their conclusion that its satanic and incompatible with christianity? How can anything, realistically, be incompatible with christianity, considering how eclectic it is in the first place?

Most likley from thier religious dogma. But, I believe that is the whole reason behind religion in the first place. To control the minds of the congregation and to cause confrontaion and chaos between other religious followings.

Will you Please stop calling everyone "Satanists". If you do that again please provide *PROOF* next time! ATS was NOT meant to be a forum for Spreading Propaganda - will you please stop doing so! Will you Fundamentalist Crazies stop telling EVERYONE in the world how to Think & what to Believe & let them come up with their own conclusions & decisions in their own life! Will you please stop calling every Organization in the world a Cult - unless it is the one that you personally belong to of-course!!!

If you continue this Behavior ASE – I will be contacting a MOD Shortly!

Im not calling masons "Satanists". Im just showing you where other people are.....

Dont get your undies in a bunch. Think this out, new concept. Open your mind and consider the possibilties, that maybe, just maybe, thier might be a satanists or two in masonry that are giving you guys a bad name. after all, its your dogma that let them in, and your dogma that protects them.

[edit on 24-4-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Dont get your undies in a bunch. Think this out, new concept. Open your mind and consider the possibilties, that maybe, just maybe, thier might be a satanists or two in masonry that are giving you guys a bad name. after all, its your dogma that let them in, and your dogma that protects them.

Do you even KNOW what a true "Satanist" is? How many REAL satanists do you think there really are in the world?!? Satanism is not as prevalent as you might like to make people think...

Now, your a expert on the number of satainst in the world? WOW.
Yes, I have studied satanists going on 10 years now. I can tell you a thing or two about them.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Now, your a expert on the number of satainst in the world? WOW.
Yes, I have studied satanists going on 10 years now. I can tell you a thing or two about them.

I have never been given a reason to believe that they are not as prominent as certain religious organizations, and other people with agendas, would like us to believe.

Quote: "Open your Mind and consider the possibilities."

I have already! If only you & your Ilk would do the same the World would be a Better Place! I DO NOT Force my Beliefs Upon others! I Believe that other people are Free to Believe what ever they want to Believe & to Practice any Religion that they want as Long as they are not Physically Hurting Myself or others!

Quote: "Yes, I have studied Satanists going on 10 years now. I can tell you a thing or two about them."

OH PLEASE do Enlighten us - I am in need of a Good Laugh right about now! It must be that "Satanic" Rock N' Roll Music that is the Root of all Evil - oh no wait it must be "Dirty Sex" - or Perhaps people who have the Nerve to Think for Themselves & not just Blindly Believe everything that you say - That must be the Big Boogieman right?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
It must be that "Satanic" Rock N' Roll Music that is the Root of all Evil - oh no wait it must be "Dirty Sex" - or Perhaps people who have the Nerve to Think for Themselves & not just Blindly Believe everything that you say - That must be the Big Boogieman right?

It's funny how people attribute EVERYTHING that they consider "wrong" to Satanism. It's makes them look really silly, because people know that true Satanism is pretty much non-existant.


[edit on 24-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Let me tell you what the Ironic thing is Sebatwerk! There are the Laveyian "Satanists" that call themselves "Satanists" just out of an act of sheer Societal Rebellion (a Prank in other words) - They feel that they have been Repressed! They don't Literally Worship a being called "Satan". In fact most are Atheists. Then there are the Gothic Types that go around Dressed in Red. Men that wear Black Lipstick. They get together & Light Candles & set up Inverse Pentagrams & Dance around in a Circle & chant "Hail Satan". They also call themselves "Satanists" - but you can see that this is just Plain Silliness! They are not really a Threat - Just as long as they don't go around Murdering People - In America you are FREE to do this! It is an "Alternative Belief" - just look at the some of the Freaky stuff that goes on in all of the Various Christian Churches in the Country! But the question then becomes - are Christians Free to Practice their Rituals because they are the Majority - or because we live in America - a Free Country!

Let me tell you what is the True Satanic Evil - Ignorance, Hate, Greed, Racism, Fear Mongering, War Mongering - *INTOLERANCE*! Personally it is not the Dress Up Kids that Frighten me - it is the Hardcore Fundamentalists that Frighten me! They want YOU to believe *EXACTLY* what they believe! If you dare to Dissent - they have no qualms in Smearing you & your Associates - Demonizing Free Thought - Calling you "Satanists". They talk about "Faith" - but what they really mean is "Their Faith Only". What about all of the Jews & Moslems & Buddhists & Hindus that live in America? Are those not Faiths also? They would not Hesitate to also call those People "Satanists that will be Damned to Hell".

Such Closed Minded Bigotry!

It Pisses me Off that these guys have the Ba*** to call themselves "Christians"! In Reality they have No Idea what either Christianity or the Concepts of Liberty/Freedom really mean! In fact if Jesus did come back down to Earth tomorrow - they would Probably call him a Socialist & beat the Crap out of the Long Haired Liberal Freak (just like the Romans did)!!! Just a little bit of History Repeating!

[edit on 24-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 24-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 24-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Let me tell you what the Ironic thing is Sebatwerk! There are the Laveyian "Satanists" that call themselves "Satanists" just out of an act of sheer Societal Rebellion (a Prank in other words) - They feel that they have been Repressed! They don't Literally Worship a being called "Satan". In fact most are Atheists. Then there are the Gothic Types that go around Dressed in Red. Men that wear Black Lipstick. They get together & Light Candles & set up Inverse Pentagrams & Dance around in a Circle & chant "Hail Satan". They also call themselves "Satanists" - but you can see that this is just Plain Silliness! They are not really a Threat - Just as long as they don't go around Murdering People - In America you are FREE to do this! It is an "Alternative Belief" - just look at the some of the Freaky stuff that goes on in all of the Various Christian Churches in the Country! But the question then becomes - are Christians Free to Practice their Rituals because they are the Majority - or because we live in America - a Free Country!

Let me tell you what is the True Satanic Evil - Ignorance, Hate, Greed, Racism, Fear Mongering, War Mongering - *INTOLERANCE*! Personally it is not the Dress Up Kids that Frighten me - it is the Hardcore Fundamentalists that Frighten me! They want YOU to believe *EXACTLY* what they believe! If you dare to Dissent - they have no qualms in Smearing you & your Associates - Demonizing Free Thought - Calling you "Satanists". They talk about "Faith" - but what they really mean is "Their Faith Only". What about all of the Jews & Moslems & Buddhists & Hindus that live in America? Are those not Faiths also? They would not Hesitate to also call those People "Satanists that will be Damned to Hell". Such Close Minded Bigotry!

It Pisses me Off that these guys have the Ba*** to call themselves "Christians"! In reality they have No Idea what ether Christianity or the Concepts of Liberty/Freedom really mean! In fact if Jesus did come back down to Earth tomorrow - they would Probably call him a Socialist & beat the Crap out of the Long Haired Liberal Freak (just like the Romans did)!!! Just a little bit of History Repeating!

I have absolutely nothing to add to your post, simply because you have said it all. You are 100% correct and I stand right by you in speaking out against the supposed "righteous".

A motion was passed that said that Freemasonry and Christianity were "fundamentally and irreconcilably incompatible"."

i can see how this would be true of the RCC version of xianity. Given that
the anglican church is just the bastard child of the RCC, I can see it there also.

When you consider that a great many people's idea of what is "Satanic" comes
from people like Jack Chick, Tex Marr, and other fundies of their ilk who have been shown to be at best deluded, i think it is well past time for:

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
i can see how this would be true of the RCC version of xianity. Given that
the anglican church is just the bastard child of the RCC, I can see it there also.

Easy now...some of us Anglicans like to think of the Anglican Church as the one that took the RIGHT path (although there are obviously some misguided souls who've come on board....heck, we're only human) Besides any church with Henry VIII as a member HAS to have a sense of humor.

Besides, I've discovered a GREAT way to handle ASE's posts. Whenever I see a thread started by him (look at page 1 and page 2..there are SEVERAL...he's obviously very bored at work or perhaps on some sort of Government disability check) Without evening OPENING the thread, I immediately think to myself.....

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Then I open the thread and disregard anything he's posted. After all, he's posted the same crap over and over again.

Regards

Why do you keep pulling headlines off Alex Jones's website and making them topics here? It's getting old.

why does everyone attack him??

i dont see anything wrong with his comments actually
it makes sense to me

i wouldnt want any negative minded people in my church either

why are the people agianst ASE so negative about it?
why does he make you so angery?
why do you even talk to him if you disregaurd what he says?
you obviously care alot about what he says because you guys are the ONLY ones to reply to his comments

you only make him feel stronger; and he should ; if i went and said "the US military has aliens" and a group of Military officers all stormed in screaming and yelling about how stupid, rediculous, or grossly wrong i was
i would think i was onto the truth too

so keep it up ASE
i myself support what your doing
there are evil people within that organization obviously;
and they Must be Revealed to the Public
its very American of you to endure their attacks and keep on fighting

you truely are a John Wayne of the sorts ASE

to the person that freaked out big time and screamed your head off at ASE; i got a newsflash for ya
Everything you said he did wrong; You did wrong in your post too

Is being self-critical within your capabilitys? If So; I believe ASE deserves an apoligy

ASE is simply sharing his findings with the Public
he isnt forcing anyone to believe anything
Look at your quote wiseguy

""ATS was NOT meant to be a forum for Spreading Propaganda - will you please stop doing so! Will you Fundamentalist Crazies stop telling EVERYONE in the world how to Think & what to Believe & let them come up with their own conclusions & decisions in their own life!"

did you realize you were telling them how to think and what to believe? and you were doing it in a fundamentalist method of screaming and yelping
did you realize that your also spreading something i could call
"Pro-Mason Propaganda"

just pointing out the obvious inconsistancys hehehe

ASE keep up the good work
i realize it must be quite amazingly difficult going day to day with a army of haters on your tail
but you are certainly hitting the bullseye
else they wouldnt be hounding you eh?

and to those that hound ASE and turn his threads into ASE bashing partys; you are just making him feel more right all the time
dont you realize that?
can you not see the plain fact that to "debunk" him you must use the tactics the US Military uses in regaurds to "alien debunking"
like Silence
Silence is the best debunker of them all
try it sometime
seriously

ASE forgive me for trying to help the pro-masons here; as they are struggling to take you down; as they are getting very frustrated because you wont give up
they need help they are losing this arguement every day more and more
lol its funny

ASE your doing great
your tactics are causing these abusive people to show their true colors

PS- i dont nessisarily believe in the Mason Satanist stuff; but it certainly makes sense
perhaps if they quit keeping secrets ASE wouldnt do this

so heres a tip Masons
Quit Keeping Secrets
and Come Clean; Tell the Truth

until then; the satanist perspective looks the most realistic to describe masonic activitys

Agian; when ASE says Satanist; He isnt talking about Goth kids with black lipstick or rebellious atheists who want attention

He is talking about people with Evil intentions within their Heart
People who will do anything to gain power and use it to harm everyone else and destroy the happiness they may have.
People who only care about $$$ and revel in their greed. They worship themselves and think they are "better than everyone else"
They most likely commit countless crimes...and feel No Remorse for it

Thats what hes talking about when he says "Satanists"
Evil People, they wallow in hate

thats my opinion as an outsider to this subject

keep it up ASE

muzzleflash

If you like and support the way ASE keeps snipping bits and pieces of someone's else's website...and/or just posting the link to such sites without providing ANYTHING substance to the thread at ALL...hey! More power to you.

Sorry you think the Masons should stop having secrets.....apparently you haven't awakened to the fact that there really ARE NO Masonic secrets....except the ones we hold in our hearts....and those secrets can't be put into words...so I guess you're s.o.l. there.

Glad you think ASE is the "John Wayne" of the sorts. John Wayne (upon whom be peace) was a 32nd Degree Mason and a Shriner.

Keep up the excellent posts though...they're humorous and I'm sure they make ASE feel good If that was your goal.

Quote: "why does everyone attack him??

why are the people against ASE so negative about it?
why does he make you so Angry?"


Maybe you missed the fact that ASE Started not just this one thread but about 5 or 6 of them - all Posting Innuendo - Empty Rhetoric & flat out Lies!

The Frustration comes from the fact that he Cut & Pasted this Stuff from other Slanted, Biased & Bogus Websites! He is not the only "Mason Hater" here on ATS & the Web in general - it is hard work but all of their Crap is eventually Debunked & Refuted! We do this because we care - the Record needs to be set straight!

Personally I believe that Masonry is a Beneficial Institution & it really annoys me when I see it Slandered & Smeared (especially when I know that Masons are not really Reptilians & don't really Eat Babies) by
Ignorant Losers!


[edit on 28-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
so heres a tip Masons
Quit Keeping Secrets
and Come Clean; Tell the Truth

How would you know if we told the Truth? What is your criteria for determining that what we say is truthful or a lie?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
He is talking about people with Evil intentions within their Heart
People who will do anything to gain power and use it to harm everyone else and destroy the happiness they may have.
People who only care about $$$ and revel in their greed. They worship themselves and think they are "better than everyone else"
They most likely commit countless crimes...and feel No Remorse for it

To infer that there is greed in the hearts of Freemasons ignores the charity extended worldwide by Masonic organizations. The depth and breadth of which is unparalleled. Do the detractors and critics of Freemasonry have edifices devoted to helping others? 22 hospitals (these would be the Shriner's Hospitals) for the completely free care of orthopaedic, burn and spinal defect care? Hospices for cancer patients? Charitable kitchens and shelters for the homeless? Homes for the aged and disabled. Reading programs for children and adults, ocular and otological (that would be eye and ear) programs for people with impairments. And finally the everyday extension of goodwill within the community that goes without sign or herald, the decency of helping our fellow man... That's our secret. All these projects are funded out of the pockets of six million men worldwide, no government aid, no Ponzi schemes, just hard work and generosity.

Please provide the following information on what charitable programs these upstanding citizens provide:

David Icke
Joe Vialls
Jim Marrs
Jack Chick
freemasonrywatch.com (because that individual remains anonymous)
Every other worthless fleshbag whose "work" is so often copied and pasted onto an ATS thread in an attempt to discredit Freemasonry.

There’ s a post that will never happen, because it can't. Those people either want to sell something or just get a handout, "tincuppers" are they, not men of charity.

I don't believe that ASE is being attacked, merely refuted, "his" (actually someone else’ s) arguments and points being exposed for what they are (the same stuff I threw at visitors when I was a Zoo Monkey... A less than stellar moment in my "career path").

As for your post, I continue to be gracious and charitable, in the name of the cogent and concise, I provide you with this token:

Yet another Masonic charity extended for the betterment of mankind.

Charitable Monkeys, not just for ladling out soup anymore...