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Freemasony - Two Organizations, one visible, the other invisible

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posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Last time I Checked Fraternities & Hermetic/Gnostic Philosophy were ALL LEGAL!

What is so Scandalous about this? Why don't you Scandal Mongers actually ***OPEN your MINDS & CAREFULLY READ*** Albert Pike’s Morals & Dogma in its Entirety - from Beginning to End & Meditate on said Contents! Maybe then you will discover what Masonry is all about! You might even discover the Origins of Religion & the Purpose & Destiny of Humanity while you are at it!!!

You can find it here: www.sacred-texts.com...

Like has been said MANY, MANY times before - SOCIETY, YES - SECRET, NO!


[edit on 26-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



Cug

posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
Here is a quote from an article called Papacy and Freemasonry that was shared off the Grand Lodge of British columbia's website. It suggests that the OTO is the more footloose and fancy free Masonic Organization.



[The conclave was that which eventually elected one of the two canonized Roman Pontiffs of the last five hundred years of the Church's history: Pope Saint Pius X. As for Rampolla, it was later confirmed that he was a Mason of the most vile kind: He was a member of the OTO, the Ordo Templi Orientalis, a Masonic sect immersed in the illuminist and luciferian ideas of people like Madame Blavatsky and Alistair Crowley.




Mariano Cardinal Rampolla del Tindaro's connection with the OTO comes from only one historical source, Liber LII (Manifesto of the O.T.O).

First of all it should be noted that Cardinal Rampolla played a role in the liberalization of the Vatican under Pope Leo XIII. And that is why Habsburg Emperor Franz Jozef vetoed his chance to be pope.

In Crowley's Liber LII he is mentioned as recent constituent originating assemblies of the O.T.O. None of the persons mentioned were "members" of the O.T.O. It is more correctly stated that their ideals represent O.T.O. ideals in some respect. Cardinal Rampolla's liberal ideals are probably what got him on the list. And/Or it was a bit of humour on Crowley's part.

Monseigneur Jouin was ultra-rightist and ultra-conservative. The liberalization of the church that Cardinal Rampolla helped bring about, along with the mention by Crowley was probably all he needed to come to this false conclusion.

1) Would someone who was almost pope belong to an masionic organization punishable by excommunication?
2) The O.T.O. proper wasn't formed until 1906, and the conclave in question happened in 1903
3) The connection with Crowley is dubious as Crowley joined the O.T.O. in 1912 and didn't become the Head of the Order until 1922. Cardinal Rampolla died in 1913.


When the Pope Pius X was presented with the proof of Rampolla's Masonic membership, he cried, "Miserable man!"


Then why did he appoint him to head the church's department of doctrinal correctness?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Cug


Mariano Cardinal Rampolla del Tindaro's connection with the OTO comes from only one historical source, Liber LII (Manifesto of the O.T.O).


Hey thanks for that link man, I was looking for that the other day and had forgotten where to find it.





1) Would someone who was almost pope belong to an masionic organization punishable by excommunication?


I believe so absolutely, Masons have taken greater risks than that in History.

2)

The O.T.O. proper wasn't formed until 1906, and the conclave in question happened in 1903


Well when you break it down like that it kinda shoots the theory full of holes. Your starting to sound like ML with all those dates and complicated names your quoting.



3) The connection with Crowley is dubious as Crowley joined the O.T.O. in 1912 and didn't become the Head of the Order until 1922. Cardinal Rampolla died in 1913.


I guess he atleast met Alistair Crowley.


When the Pope Pius X was presented with the proof of Rampolla's Masonic membership, he cried, "Miserable man!"



Then why did he appoint him to head the church's department of doctrinal correctness?


Obviously because of his knowledge. I was listening to an incredible preacher last night and wondered if he really believed the things he was teaching. I wondered if he didn't retire to his motor home and laugh at all the folk who ate his message up. Those who had come forward to recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Interesting discussion.

Just a quick reminder: A "non-profit" designation does not remove an organization’s ability to collect revenue or accumulate wealth beyond its expenditures. However, in order to keep their “non-profit” designation, an organization must abide by regulations limiting how much wealth they can amass and how they may use it.

However, any “non-profit” organization that wishes to get around this limitation can easily do so by transferring wealth through inflated expenditures and such.

Also, you can find any U.S. “non-profit” organization’s tax filings on the internet (e.g. guidestar.org); even evil ones have to file. It there truly is an invisible organization, you’ll be able to find it by following the money trail. Good luck.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
The majority of Masonic "cash flow" is through organised white collar crime, mostly by issuing overly inflated contracts to Masonic partners.


Yeah, right. If what you say is really true, why don't you stop babbling and finally present some evidence. You've been crying about how everything wrong in the world is our fault for about a year now on here, and haven't once demonstrated with a single shred of evidence.

Now, I don't really expect you to post any evidence, because I know just as well as you do that you're BS'ing us. But it seems to me you've let your ego get the better of you here, and once again you're flat on your face. Better luck next time.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by BOHICA
Interesting discussion.

Just a quick reminder: A "non-profit" designation does not remove an organization’s ability to collect revenue or accumulate wealth beyond its expenditures.


That's absolutely true, and many Grand Lodges, including my own, own investments and securities. Such things are almost vital for the survival of any organization.

My earlier point was to dispell another poster's insinuation that someone somewhere is getting rich from Freemasonry. In reality, many Lodges operate in the red. Average dues in my jurisdiction are $30 per year. Without investment income, this is clearly not enough to cover expenses, especially for smaller Lodges with less than 100 members.

Grand Lodges do have several employees on their payroll, but these are well known, and are found in the financial statements. In my jurisdiction, the Grand Secretary receives a salary of $29,000 per year; his position is a full time job, and he handles all the administrative activities of the Grand Lodge. The Grand Master receives an allowance of $5000 per year, and the Grand secretary has a clerk and a receptionist who receive annual salaries. The Grand Treasurer receives an allowance of $10,000 per year.

Outside of this, no one else is paid anything without approval of the majority members of Grand Lodge, which consists of representatives of each Lodge. Each Lodge may elect to compensate their Secretary and Treasurer, because these officers continually do work for the Lodge on their own time. I am Secretary of my Lodge, and receive an allowance of $1.75 per member per year. Outside of the administrative offices of Secretary and Treasurer, Masonic Offices are filled by volunteers, without pay.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
It was weird though, if you talked to the bottom rung "Blue Lodge" engineers
(none of whom would publically admit their membership)


Then how the hell did you know they were Masons? :bnghd:

Brother intrepid


BTW, what form of work are you in that takes you from the UK to Thailand to Australia?

Next stop, the moon?

[edit on 26-4-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
That's absolutely true, and many Grand Lodges, including my own, own investments and securities. Such things are almost vital for the survival of any organization.


Absolutely. We had two brothers pass recently who left our lodge a nice sum of money in their wills. We had to vote on which ways we wanted to invest that money, so we chose two CDs to keep the money in until it is needed.

The point I'm making is that, just like ML said, as a non-profit organization we are forbidden from taking that money and splitting it up between all the brothers in the lodge. The money needs to be used for lodge purposes only.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Then how the hell did you know they were Masons? :bnghd:

Brother intrepid


BTW, what form of work are you in that takes you from the UK to Thailand to Australia?

Next stop, the moon?


Come on Intrepid, you've seen the Harry Potter movies haven't you? A quick trip to Diagon Alley and "Presto" one sure fire Mason detector (don't get caught with your pants down when they come for your toilet).

On another note, I've been unable to corroborate the claim that Barton Watson was a Freemason. I know MrNECROS, it was all covered up after his little "accident." Still there should be a shred of evidence here or there, an engineer in Australia who might come forward... Something.

Fraternal Monkeys, not just for being Intrepid's brother anymore...



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MrNECROS
It was weird though, if you talked to the bottom rung "Blue Lodge" engineers
(none of whom would publically admit their membership)


Then how the hell did you know they were Masons? :bnghd:



Intrepid, they ARE NOT masons. I think Necros is slightly delirious about masons, as he seems to think that EVERYONE around him is one. He has told us on several occasions that he KNOWS that some of his family members are masons, but they won't admit it. He's completely paranoid and suffering from persecution syndrome.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
ATS was NOT meant to be a forum for Spreading Propaganda - will you please stop doing so!

I stll laughing at this. One has only to cruise Secret Societies on ATS to see the OBVIOUS disconnect in this statement.


Originally posted by BOHICA
. . . any “non-profit” organization that wishes to get around this limitation can easily do so by transferring wealth through inflated expenditures and such.

Also, you can find any U.S. “non-profit” organization’s tax filings on the internet (e.g. guidestar.org); even evil ones have to file. It there truly is an invisible organization, you’ll be able to find it by following the money trail. Good luck.





Which on is the 'real' guy and which ones are hidden?

Take for example the non-profits of Kansas, USA. I'll only use #3, the Home Endowment Assoc. (from GuideStar)

      1) KANSAS MASONIC HOME
      Wichita, KS 67213
      A full-spectrum, long term care, sub-acure retirement community.

      2) Kansas Masonic Foundation, Inc.
      Topeka, KS 66603
      Kansas Masonic Foundation is a nonprofit organization for the purpose of expanding Masonic Philanthropy in the fields of charitable, educational and scientific programs.

      3) KANSAS MASONIC HOME ENDOWMENT ASSOCIATION
      WICHITA, KS 67213
      SUPPORT THE KANSAS MASONIC HOME.

      Revenue:$979,650
      Expenses:$1,215,940
      Assets:$4,031,867
      Liabilities:$0
      Expenses
      Contributions $682,795
      Government Grants $0
      Program Services $0
      Investments $296,855
      Special Events $0
      Sales $0
      Other $0
      Program Services $1,200,000
      Administration $15,940
      Other $0
      Total Expenditures $1,215,940

      4) KANSAS MASONIC GRAND LODGE ENDOWMENT FUND INC
      TOPEKA, KS 66601

      5) LOUISBURG MASONIC LIBRARY AND RESEARCH CENTER
      LOUISBURG, KS 66053

      6) MASONIC CHARITY FUND OF WICHITA A F & A M INC
      WICHITA, KS 67217

      7) NORTHEAST KANSAS MASONIC LIBRARY AND RESEARCH CENTER INC
      MISSION, KS 66202

We have an organization that spends $236, 290 more than it takes in and yet its assets are $4,000,000 (approx.)
How does an organization maintain large assets while spending more than it makes?

There are, of course, multiple potential answers for this. Counting $296,855 in investments as an expense easily solves the problem.

Administration costs were only $15,940. So, a part time person administer's a $4 million dollar fund and makes close to $300k in investments.

To say Masonry or any other non-profit doesn't get public money is bunk. Every organization that has a tax exempt gets tax dollars indirectly. The donors take the write-offs. Otherwise these organizations would not bother with the tax-exempt status.

In this example, they took in $979,650 dollars. Of this the tax-payers took a shot for around $274,000 (28%). This could be more or less depending on the donor's bracket.

I wonder what the write-off potential is for non-reportable income? Small, unreported donations such as lodge assessments. Something to ponder.

I'll follow this up with some other stuff in keeping with this thread.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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"I guess we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto".




posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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We could be



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by JoeDoaks
To say Masonry or any other non-profit doesn't get public money is bunk. Every organization that has a tax exempt gets tax dollars indirectly. The donors take the write-offs. Otherwise these organizations would not bother with the tax-exempt status.


The difference between those organizatiion and freemasonry is that Freemason's aren't in the fraternity to make money. It is a complete volunteer organization, like any other fraternity. Any money made is only used to raise more money for the fraternity, or spend it on the members.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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JoeDoaks - do you know the meaning of the words - SLANDER & LIBEL?

As I can see from your Mood Indicator you are "Extremely Biased" - fitting!

Can you blame the Masons for Defending both themselves & their Organization?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
JoeDoaks - do you know the meaning of the words - SLANDER & LIBEL?

Care to enlighten me?

I don't suppose this is like 20 questions or any thing like that, is it?

From your use a CAPS I wouldn't want to post a wrong answer.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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OK - I would say that calling people that you don't know "Satanists" & "Disciples of the Anti-Christ" - when you have No Proof & are in Reality quite the Opposite - that would Qualify!



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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Man is supreme over institutions

Doesn't this just advocate the use of an institution to benefit the individual?

Does each offshoot organization also have a Treasury? I assume so.

"Freedom of speech means nothing if it does not include the freedom to expose religious zealots and corrupt governments"

Couldn't you say, that from the opening quote, at the very least, there are two kinds of Masons, those who have read Morals and Dogma, and those that haven't.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Couldn't you say, that from the opening quote, at the very least, there are two kinds of Masons, those who have read Morals and Dogma, and those that haven't.


Morals and Dogma is NOT the bible of Freemasonry. Seriously Akilles, it's a good book but it is not THE book. Stop thinking of it as such, there are many pieces of masonic literature that are MUCH MORE important for their esoteric as well as spiritual contents. Reading and enjoying Morals&Dogma does NOT make you a better mason, or even a different kind of mason. Your post above means nothing.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 05:48 AM
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Here is an interesting quote from Morals and Dogma p 567. - Satan created and governs the physical world. But the soul emanated from God.




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