Freemasony - Two Organizations, one visible, the other invisible

www.cuttingedge.org...

[edited all caps and made quote a quote - nygdan]



[edit on 24-4-2005 by Nygdan]

Quote: " Freemasonry is Satanic to the core, and is striving mightily to produce the New Age Christ [Antichrist]."

Will you *PLEASE STOP* with that cuttingedge.org - Fundamentalist Nonsense Drivel!

Will you Please stop calling everyone "Satanists". If you do that again please provide *PROOF* next time! ATS was NOT meant to be a forum for Spreading Propaganda - will you please stop doing so! Will you Fundamentalist Crazies stop telling EVERYONE in the world how to Think & what to Believe & let them come up with their own conclusions & decisions in their own life! Will you please stop calling every Organization in the world a Cult - unless it is the one that you personally belong to of-course!!!

If you continue this Behavior ASE – I will be contacting a MOD Shortly!

NO ALL CAPS...

thanks...

Is there anything that supports the Russian Doll organizational claim??

It seems like the claim is just a way to deal with not being able to find anything that implicates masonry.

The two structure idea also doesn't make sense. If normal masons are what they say they are, then they'd be incompatible with the 'evil masonic top organization'. Where would the top org recruit people from?

Realistically, it'd've nothing to do with masonry, other than being a group preying on it.

Heck, normal mason's'd be the best weapon against the 'evil' masonic top org.

I agree. If only they could start looking at the top themselves and stop trusting everything they hear from the top. Start to question the higherups. Demand the old masons show them proof, and to stop hoodwinking them.

Im not calling masons satanists. Just showing you where other people, are Should you just dispell what these people have to say?

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "TOP" IN MASONRY!!!

But since you're so convinced that there is, can you tell me WHO the "higher-ups" are? Where can I contact them and speak to one of them?

Would it not require that someone show them proof that there is a 'higher up' organization and that its doing any of this?

Certainly. They present no evidence, merely innuendo. Look at this portion for example

Non Sequitor. It does not follow.

What do you find the most convincing, the most concrete, of the evidence presented?

I really makes me wonder what is going on in these peoples Brains to Equate:

True Universal Church = Church of the "Anti-Christ" (which we know it to be)?

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I have read every thread you have started today in their entirety just now, and I have to say that NOT ONE of them has any real merit. It is all speculation and innuendo stated as fact. The problem is, there is nothing to back up these so-called "facts" but PLENTY of evidence and testimony to the contrary. I think you are grasping at straws, and poorly at that.


How boring. Try a little originality. I'm pretty sure every single topic you posted today (you were quite busy today, weren't you? ) has already been discussed in this forum. Why are you sop hellbent against Freemasonry? Seriously.

All that time to post all these topics and you STILL haven't answered my 8 simple questions that were directed specifically at you.

I am not impressed.

IF there is no top echelon to this organization, and it is solely run by those that are 33 degree, then who has the ability to make organizational level changes in the order? Can any high level mason send out a document stating, " that from now on I say we rename the 3rd degree as 'Tubal Dude'" for instance?

Surely there is someone that makes these decisions, and that ultimately gets the money, who are these guys?

33 degree masons do not run anything! It is only an honorary degree!

The Grand Lodge of each State (Grand Lodges are run by 3rd degree masons who are voted to 1-year terms) can change anything it wants about the fraternity for it's jurisdiction by holding a vote. All masons can vote. In other countries, the same system is set up for different jurisdictions. If a Grand Lodge, of California for example, makes a change that is too drastic so as to be considered "un-masonic", it runs the risk of not being recognized anymore by the rest of the Grand Lodges in the world, thereby converting all masonic lodges in California into "irregular" lodges.

In other words, each Grand Lodge and every lodge in its jurisdiction makes up an independent body of masonry. All these different Grand Lodge jurisdictions recognize each other, thereby forming the fraternity. The only "top" to the fraternity is each individual Grand Lodge, being the supreme authority for its own jurisdiction. There is no body that controls these Grand Lodges. This is part of the reason why masonic ritual and rules vary so much from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

And because Freemasonry is a non-profit organization, there is no money involved.


[edit on 25-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

The reason the other organisation's invisible is because it isn't there.

The Fraternity is not ran by the 33°. Instead, each Lodge elects representatives to go to the annual Grand Lodge meeting. The Grand Lodge runs the Fraternity through majority vote.



Freemasonry is a NON-PROFIT fraternal organization. Each Grand Lodge may have several employees who receive a salary, which is considered part of administrative expenses, and is reported on the income statement with the annual financial report. Any other income is invested for Masonic charities.

Masonry isn't a cash flow machine. Lodges generally only bring in enough income to cover its own expenses, with a little set aside for charitable purposes.

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Masonic Light]

The majority of Masonic "cash flow" is through organised white collar crime, mostly by issuing overly inflated contracts to Masonic partners.
The last company I worked at in Australia "CyberNet Group" was actually fingered for this and the CEO Barton Watson shot himself rather than give himself up to police.
Our standing contracts with 3 or 4 major companies were extortionate, for example [Name Removed] were paying us in excess of Au$220,000 a month to supply 7 service engineers.
Even after his death the money still continued to flow out with the way the company was liquidated, for example he had a celler of investment wine bottles which were made out to be his personel tipple selection and they were sold at a closed box auction for just over US$50,000 - The real value of the cache was somewhere between US$1,000,000 and US$1,500,000
At CyberNet it was manditory that you be a Freemason in order to get a supervisors position although no one would admit it.
As far as I could tell there were only 4 or 5 employees that weren't Freemasons in our Australian branch.
Barton Watson was at least a Knight Rose Croix by my understanding, anyway have look here.
Goog le: "Barton Watson CyberNet"

It was weird though, if you talked to the bottom rung "Blue Lodge" engineers
(none of whom would publically admit their membership) they would carry on like the Blue Lodge posters we have in this forum, completely oblivious to what was going on upstairs yet blindly loyal to them.

[edit on 25-4-2005 by MrNECROS]

Here is a quote from an article called Papacy and Freemasonry that was shared off the Grand Lodge of British columbia's website. It suggests that the OTO is the more footloose and fancy free Masonic Organization.





[edit on 25-4-2005 by TgSoe]

Once again, straight from the horses anatomy...

"Manly P. Hall; Lectures On Ancient Philosophy; Page 397:
Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity - an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect. .... The invisible society is a secret and most August fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcanum arcanorum.
.... In each generation only a few are accepted into the inner sanctuary of the Work, but these are veritable Princes of the Truth ..."

"Albert Pike; Morals and Dogma; Page 819:
The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.
... It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees."

Regarding 33d degree Freemasons: From Old Cahier of the 33d degree, Albert Pike: "Powers of a 33d Degree Mason

A Sovereign Grand Inspector General has the power of making and creating, on land or at sea.
Masons, Lodges, Colleges, Councils, Chapters, Sovereign Grand Councils, Consistory and Senate, as he shall deem fit and proper, conformably to the Secret Constitutions which prescribe the limits of his powers. He may also make Masons, up to and including the last degree but one;
but of his own degree he can make but one in each year, and but one Lieutenant Commander in every six months. To make a Grand Commander, he must be in a place three thousand leagues from a Consistory or Senate, and there must be no Masons there of his own degree; if there be one such, they will jointly commission the Grand Commander, and the commission will be valid:
for the office of lieutenant Commander and that of Commander are but pure and simple charges, to watch over what passes in the absence of the Knight of the Temple, or of the Deputy Grand Inspector General, 33d degree, as being himself alone the Supreme Chief of Masonry.

Bloody good find

Are you aware that every single quote you just spewed out has been posted, and dispelled, many many MANY times here on ATS? There is actually a thread about this going on right now. I don't have the time to look for them, but you can go ahead; the ATS search should be your friend. Both authors were referring to the differences between the fraternal and esoteric parts of Freemasonry, and the group within a group is actually the group of masons who are most interested in the mystical and spiritual side of Freemasonry (esoteric), and not merely the brotherhood.

The fallacy about both of your quotes is: why would either author write this and announce it to the public? By publishing this, both authors stand to lose a lot more than they would gain. Seems counter-productive doesn't it? That's why these posts do not mean what you claim. If you hadn't taken both quotes out of context to suit your agenda, you would have given the readers of this post a chance to see that for themselves.


[edit on 25-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Researcher, I would like to hear your thoughts on this thread, and my interpretation of the above quoted excerpt...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Any other feedback would be welcomed as well.

[edit on 4/26/05 by The Axeman]

Feel free to read my observations, and those of John J Robinson, about Pike and that quote.

www.abovetopsecret.com...