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Is America the Great Babylon of Endtime Prophecy?

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posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 07:37 PM
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What I am trying to say ..and taking the long way around it is..

Babylon is a system..a religious system..which has a dogma. ...concealed from most of whom it affects..
It is known by its most devoted adherants.
You see it spoken about in various chapters in the Olde Testament where the Children of Israel got involved into the religious abominations of the nations surrounding them. They were warned not to do this and did it anyway.Often they were punnished severly for this conduct. Even to the time of Jesus and his walk on this earth certain of the Children of Israel were using this babylon system and trying to secretly incorporate it into the Law of Moses ..so as to get it to pass for the Law of Moses when it was in fact no such thing. This is what Jesus rebukes them for over and over. This is what is happening to many of the Christians today and many of them havent a clue. This babylon system is still around and attempting to insinuate itself into Christianity with remarkable success unbeknownst to many who claim the name of Christ. As in the Olde Testament times ..today it is still a counterfit system attempting to look as much as the real system as possible..in order to maintain its grasp..and hijack the Christian systems still working and operating.
The workings of this babylon system are a far cry from what was invisioned by our founders ..economically politically spiritually. We are so far from our roots and this system is moving rapidly now so as to achieve its goals.
Babylon is a religious system with definite goals...and moving rapidly now..world wide to "achieve the mastery of everything"

Thanks Orangetom




posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Herman
Great post Jake! Too bad it was ignored! There plenty of cities that are MORE hedonistic than NYC. Think about it, there are cities in the philipines where men are literally SELLING THEIR DAUGHTERS OVER THE INTERNET! I mean for christ's sake, all of the things mentioned are so general, they could be applied to any city in the world.


No other city/nation meets all the criteria. Herman, you ever spent any time in Manhatten?
I have; and I assure you, it can be as hedonistic as you want it to be. And that is saying a lot. Whatever you want, pure to perverse, it is there.

One that sits on many waters.
Youngest and most powerful of all nations - that the world has ever seen.
Commerce center for all the world.

etc. etc.

What other nation/city in world history can boast that?

NONE.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Babylon is a system..a religious system..which has a dogma. ...concealed from most of whom it affects..


What scriptures do you base this 'it is a system' contention?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Ok..here are two examples of the babylon system in operation and the result of what they do.

First one is the Pharisees of olde..at the time of the walk of Jesus on this earth . In the New Testament we are told the story of the woman caught in adultery...in the very act. The Pharisees bring this woman ..caught in the very act..before Jesus and ask him...what he thinks of this ...or what say you concerning this Rabbi?? The story as most know it is that Jesus takes a stick and draws in the dirt and states..."he who is without sin let him cast the first stone" This is as far as most people take this story.
First off..the Pharisees were not concerned with the woman at all...they wanted to catch Jesus in a contradiction..and discredit him.
What is not often taught concerning this verse..is that the pharisees brought a woman..caught in adultery ..in the very act. They did not bring the man...caught with the woman. The Law of Moses..for which the Pharisees claim to be keeping ..dictates that in adultery .."They shall be stoned.." meaning two..not one. The law that the Pharisees were keeping said that women get stoned for adultery ..men dont. This is not the Law of Moses...it is another law..and therefore another god they were keeping. The Pharisees were secretly keeping another law and superimposing this secret law and its practices as if it were the Law of Moses. This is a counterfit..and the fruit produced by it. This is the "traditions of men"...for which Jesus and later the Apostles rebuke the Jews over and over. It must look as close to the real thing as possible ..but in fact when you understand and think it through ..it is not. This is how the babylon system works to seduce the unawares.

The second example..is the NIV translation of the bible. This concerns two people on the translation team...Virginia Mollenkott and Marten Woudstra.
This information can be found on line.
These two people..one lesbian and one gay..were on the translation committee...the result with the approval of the rest of the committee..is that the references to sodomy have been taken out or greatly modified and the meanings obscured. Compare a concordance of the King James Bible to the New International Version for this information. It cannot be accidental.
This is how a counterfit and the babylon system work..by subtilty and silence. Without the victims knowing anything has taken place.
I could show other examples of the babylon/counterfit system..but this is sufficient for now. Believers who check this out will understand immediately of what I speak.
This is being done world wide..not just in America.

Thanks
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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What you described, with the Pharisees tyring to trick big J into a contradiction is simply the wolves leading the sheep astray. Nothing new. They were hypocrits; Jesus was keen to point that out in His teachings.

I'm asking you to provide actual scriptures to prove your contention. What I described are predicted attributes of that physical Mystery Babylon - a literal place in a literal country during the end-times. Again, no other city/nation fits the bill physically and literally as NYC does.

Please don't think I'm arguing w/you. I'm simply basing my contention on specific, detailed prophetic scriptures.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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The book of revelation of which most people like to quote concerning Mystery Babylon is metaphor..symbolic.
However ..when you read the entire Bible and follow the patterns concerning sin , corruption abomination..etc etc..from begining to end..you see this pattern of Babylon repeated over and over...in different ways by different peoples...but the same pattern.
What Revelation does show is that it is a organized system. This is also found in the Olde Testament in some places.
Christians are instructed not to be ignorant and to learn the pattern of things.
This is what I am pointing out ...the pattern.
Christians on meat will follow this quickly.

Thanks
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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I've studied both Old and New testaments. There are corresponding prophecies in the old and new regarding specific end time events - with the exception of dates.

That is why I want to know what you base your belief on - scripturally speaking.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Sorry about the delay in getting back to you ..I am in the process of painting my house so time is at a premium lately.

What I base my premise about this being a system ...not necessarily only of America when refering to Babylon..is that through out the bible ...references are made to a system...of trade/religion..obviously a organized system of trade/religion. This can be confirmed in historical texts...when one comes across historys of different cultures/civilizations. The Mid east became a cross roads of trade..at different times more affluent than others. Port cities like Tyre and Alexandria became very important to ship and trans ship cargos in those days ..most arriving from the interior by caravan routes

What I am going to tell you ..I suggest you research from the King James version of the bible..as the new versions including the New King James have many passages altered or missing so as to obscure the meanings.

In the book of Ezekiel begining about chapter 26 we see a warning about the city of Tyre. God gives a threat against this city for its pride and boasting about verse 3 of chapter 26. Remember also that these are nations surrounding Israel...and are pagan nations with definite pagan religions. God warns Tyre that he is against thee O Tyrus. Engines of war shall be against thee...etc etc...
Continue on to Chapter 27 where there is a list of the beauty and richs of Tyre. It becomes clear in this chapter that Tyre is a major shipping port. This list continues on with a list of merchants and thier products. Compare this list to the list in the chapter of Revelation Chapter 18...where it talks of merchants and the whore of Babylon. They are talking again about a system ..a organized system....that is continuing. The list of their merchandize is once again given...continuing to the most important merchandize which is listed last..."the souls of Men" I believe this is about the end of verse 13 in the King James version. Notice that in the Lord's manner he appropriately puts for emphassis the most important commodity last. "The Souls of Men"

Going back to Ezekiel...we see in continuance as these chapters go on to give us more information about this Whore/merchandize system. Continue on to Chapter 28...there is a judgement ..about the prince of Tyrus for being lifted up...the very warning given to Lucifer. This continues once again at verse 12 in the lamentation uon the King of Tyrus. Here from verse 12 continuing on ..we see more information that the King of Tyrus is not just any man. Verse 12 ...the King of Tyre was in Eden...the garden of God. The prescious stones covering him. This King was the annointed cherub. Who was the annointed cherub in Eden....Lucifer. Perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him. Also again .continuing in verse 16...by the multitude of thy merchandize...and next...by this merchandize...they have filled the midst of thee with violence.
Very important ...as only few places in the bible..do you see this fingerrint of the Luciferian system...to fill the land with violence...to do violence to ...this is a fingerprint a tell tale of the author of this system...and is given to us for instruction to know the pattern. You find this pattern in history to day when certain merchants traffic in thier merchandize...in different nations..eventually it becomes violent..the land is filled with violence...clearly indicating the pattern and author of this system. Remember this when watching current events and reading the Bible.
What you see in chapter 28 is a description of Lucifer and how he opertates and glorifies himself. These three chapters are connected..and not seperate...they show a pattern of operation and nations involved in this pattern of operation/seduction.
When you go to the book of Revelation you see this pattern repeated in the form of a Woman ..a whore..of babylon..this system of merchants still in operation. In woodcuts of ancient mystery religions you see this often done as a woman sitting on a hill with a cup in her hand...the cup of the wine of her fornication. Remember...in Ezekiel these nations fornicating with the merchant system..the King and Princes of Tyrus..where of many nations back them..international...as they are today. No change.
We are talking about a entire system...organized..and one which will extract its dues meaning eventually ...the souls of men.
Remember also the warnings of God against the children of Israel..over and over...even from the time they came out of Egypt..not to do the things that the nations surrounding them did..for it was abomination...the practices of these whore nations. Occult...paganism..was what it was..and was prohibited...we see this warning over and over. From the very begining the children of Israel were messing up...with the building of the Golden Calf..to sneaking in the occult practices so as to make them pass as the Law of Moses when they were no such thing. No different than what the King of Tyrus was doing.
This you can occasionally see..all around you once you identify the pattern. Particularly to do violence..or do violence to.
Once you see the pattern ..you see the threads over and over from the Olde testament to the New Testament...and even to certain occurences of daily life. This is a organized system.

Is American part of it..yes..definitely ..but we here are not the only ones..it is international. I would remind you that if you go out west...and see the amount of rail traffic coming out of Los Angeles...to points east..you learn that Los Angeles/San Diego is a huge major seaport as are the ports here around Norfolk..and many others around the East Coast. Go up to the Northwest...Portland and Seattle are also major ports and I suggest they are ..information wise all tied together ..and have been for years..they do not operate independently. All this needs financing and insuring.so these companys are in it too..the banks and insurance companys..not just the merchants themselves ..per se. Banks and Insurance comapanys are merely merchants of capital and information. After all..information is so very important today to keep the merchants in buisness.
Marselles..in France a major port..Antwerp..London...Hong Kong. Singapore...et al...all major seaports with financing and insurance companys backing them. Lloyds of London is a major insurer of shipping and has been for hundreds of years. They have a office in our shipyard here.

Anyway ...East Coast Kid..I do hope this has been helpful..Sorry for the length and the time it took me to reply ..Take care and God Bless you and your house.

Thanks
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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when you come to understand this system/religion for which I am describing..you realize that borders ..physical borders mean nothing to adherants of this system or religion. They owe no allegance to any nation at all..their allegance is to their profits...and hence the whore herself. This is what is meant by the term internationalist...no borders..no allegance.

This system was designed in this manner for this very purpose..


Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you ..I am in the process of painting my house so time is at a premium lately.


Hey no worries! I appreciate your interest in this thread and the time you've taken to discuss it.
My house is a work in progress, as well; so, I totally understand.


I read your posts and have made a few notes/comments along the way.

Whether we agree or not on specific points doesn't so much matter. What is important is that we can keep discussing it rationally and without malice. Maybe in between, other folks who are interested and unaware of where to look for this in the good book will find some answers/direction.



What I base my premise about this being a system ...not necessarily only of America when refering to Babylon..is that through out the bible ...references are made to a system...of trade/religion..obviously a organized system of trade/religion


The system is trade/economics. Free (international) trade. The world's trade mecca is Wall Street (NYC). That is exactly why the World Trade towers were struck. It was symbolic.


What I am going to tell you ..I suggest you research from the King James version of the bible..as the new versions including the New King James have many passages altered or missing so as to obscure the meanings.


I like to keep around at least three different bibles for purposes of cross-reference. It's good to see how the various scriptures are worded in each. For many people, the King James version just goes right over their heads b/c of the older language. I also have a a Strong's concordance and various other reference books, too. I would encourage everyone exploring scripture to do the same. My favorite bible is one Pastor Chuck Swindoll put together (Insight For Living). The best thing about it, besides the maps, is his time capsule and synopsis before each book. The man is brilliant and so easy to follow. He's a great historian, too.

I don't have access to my books right now (sorry), if I did I would point to the place in prophecy where it discusses how mystery Babylon will be destroyed and the merchants of the world will wail in grief over how she has fallen.. If that were to happen to Manhattan, the very heart of the world's economic system, that very thing would happen.

Once our economy crashes, we will no longer be the great power. The European Union will be dominant (the revived Roman Empire prophecied) and the Anti-Christ will assume his position, thusly. It is said he will take his seat on the throne (abomination of desolation) in the newly built temple - in Israel. If the USA were not dethroned on the world stage, it stands to reason, the Anti-Christ would move into the UN, no? If NYC is taken out, there will no longer be a UN building.

Just some thoughts...



Anyway ...East Coast Kid..I do hope this has been helpful..Sorry for the length and the time it took me to reply ..Take care and God Bless you and your house.


Same to you.
And don't worry about the length. Its the thought you put into it that matters. Keep it up.



[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
when you come to understand this system/religion for which I am describing..you realize that borders ..physical borders mean nothing to adherants of this system or religion. Thanks,
Orangetom


I agree with that completely. Our leaders today (USA) have no allegience to our nation. They have sold us down the river at each and every step.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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Babylon is Babylon, the Garden of Eden in situated there it was the first city to be built and will be the last to be destroyed. Revelations 16:12 mention the river Euphrates and the battle of Armageddon where the river is made dry to cross to prepare for war. I believe the Catholic Church is a smoke screen and a lot of people will get it wrong. It could combine with other religions including Islam as the both have the Mary and son connections. Do'nt forget the Beheaders of the Christians, will Islam have its part too?

My theory is that the world trade centre or organisation of the future will be built there like the tower of Babel and the ancient religions of the past will resurface and new ancient discoveries will disrepute the Bible historical teachings and maybe bring pagan beliefs back to popularity. The city of Babylon is different from the Beast and believes Revelations make it a separate issue.

Many people think Daniel 7 lion represents the UK and the eagle's wings America and the plucking of the wings represent a split between the two.

Daniel 7

3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagles' wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it.

Obviously there are other explanations but this is one of them.

I can see why America looks like Babylon but it won’t be long until Iraq is the new force that will control the earth through trade with oil and hidden ancient treasures. It will need the UN to get it going again and the UN will trade through it keep it in a fair stable condition whilst it leads the world astray.

Some people say Babylon are all the cities of the earth that have become corrupt but its clear that its description is isolated to one area and Babylon the home of the garden of Eden will be the focal point because many fallen angels and demons surround it. Its where it all began and is where it will all end.
Here are some prophecy websites to keep you updated.

You can download video discussions here.
www.prophecyinthenews.com...


News up dates in this website.
www.gospelcom.net...



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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Thanks for to people on this forum as at least we can discuss this issue beyond having to explain that God even exists and get on with more advanced state of the arguement of interest.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:26 AM
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Interesting topic. As of now the only thing I can say is that there are two candidates.

1-The Vatican
2-New York (not America)

Both fit the description to a very reasonable level. Some people say its the U.N but the U.N does have its headquarters in New York. Another thing about New York that catches my attention is the Statue of Liberty, an obvious Illuminati symbol, which was given to New York by French Freemasons in Paris who knew what it really symbolised. It is Queen Semiramis, also known as Ashtar, the goddess of Babylon. Which reads "AMERICA, THE LAND OF THE FREE, THE MOTHER OF...???" lets leave it at that. Another thing is , the Statue has something in her hand I'm guessing its a torch not a Cup as said in Rev. unless its really a cup not a torch. Anyway I think the only thing that doesn't fit the discription is the blood of the saints although I have heard some theories but I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. The Vatican also has a number of things that don't fit the discription. Who knows maybe its both.



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid



I think you got the states confused with Iran and parts of the middle east.

They've been crusader's since Arabia was started... probably even before that...

Once you start #e with them, they will not stop.

This war will not end for hundreds of years... ok maybe 20-50 unless they get annihilated..

Iran isn't sticking to the treaty, they want the bomb, and they aren't afraid to use it.

They will make threats, and possibly blow a large percentage of the world up.

Great babylon of engtime prophecy? Yeah, thats them.



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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yes it is and good going for your understanding..prophetseeker



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Now look at Rome. Below you will have an artifact that contains Ishtar's symbol,



I have heard a man by the name of Gary Kah speak and He says that the statue of Liberty is what idols of ashteroth looked like and maybe ashteroth is the same as ishtar. The statue of liberty certainly is not Biblical. Also it really bothers me that the Washington monument is an obelisk for that is certainly against the one true God also. These symbols associated with our country bother me deeply. In the OT a good king would come to power in Israel and tear down such structures. I think it is an offence to God that we have spent millions to refurbish these abominable things when millions go to bed hungry at night.

God will hold this nation accountable for this.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Dont get me wrong.
Im not going to lift up the USA as some kind of pure nation. Far from it. Im just saying we are no further ahead then the rest of the world.

The statue of Liberty is supposed to be of some french woman who was killed during the French Revolution.
It appears the model for it tho , was taken from a Roman god or goddess Libertus. This trail likely does lead back to Ishtar...which is Astarte, ester, semerimis, madonna, ....
Nice catch on that.
Baal and his symbol is just as clear.
If the USA resembles anyone in the OT , I think Tyre is closest. The beast (7 headed) used Tyre from Egypt to persia, and then destroyed it with greece.

I can think of anything more profound then the EU taking the woman on the bull symbol...with the 12 stars of the madonna....and then making an artist rendition of the Tower of Babel as their HQ ...(forget what city...lil help here)
The EU treaty is supposed to be redone every 7 years. 2007 is the next time.
The 10 nations of the western EU have a military treaty.

Judgment of the USA is coming. Maybe its in Ezekiel 39:6, maybe later, or even sooner. Dunno.
I just cannot see the USA as Babylon.


Curious... do you see any other symbols of the old world in the monuments of our nation?



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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I'm not saying the USA is the endtime babylon either. I could see it as a possibility.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
You have to keep the ENTIRE LIST of things that Babylon is described with.



She is all pagan religion. Look at the pantheons of all those empires listed. They are exactly the same. The names were different because of the language but its all
Sungod
Sex goddess
the son of them

and the rest



God is NOT an interfaith kinda God.

Babylon will be the unified INTERFAITH religion...and the city it will be based in is what you are looking for

Excellent points!

I think, though, as far as 'city' it is more a representation of a 'way of life' rather than a 'place to live.' It is the state of living in any idolatrous way--and even those who claim they believe there is no god of any kind in existence fit in the category of idolatry. Maybe that false image is their own ideas and values.

And the idea of 'buying' and 'selling' in regard to the mark of the beast has nothing to do with commerce and finance--it is about the economy of souls--and those religious systems which adhere to the idea of one having to pay in any way, for their own transgressions is actually a way of both buying, selling, and stealing souls.

And only those who truly understand what it means that Christ paid for our sins, and redeemed us--bought back our inheritance--truly have no need to engage in any kind of soul-trading economy.

God knows finances are a part of earthly existence--He gave guidelines in the OT to ensure fair trading practices in business dealings. Every one must eat, and buy their food. But that is something totally independent of the attitude and importance each of us places on money and the things it can obtain. Either it serves it purpose and nothing more, or it becomes a driving motivation. And this is part of the list of symptoms in those who are yet unsaved--not part of the final test. The final test is based upon our understanding and acceptance of the Gift of the Son.



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