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F-4X/RF-4X Phantom II

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posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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According to the source found on this [linked below], this was a joint US-Israeli aircraft project to study the possible creation of an advanced photo-reconnaissance aircraft capable of Mach 3+ performance, coming close in comparison and capabilities to the SR-71.


Rather than trying to slim down the reconnaissance pod, the original goal of the General Dynamics team was to improve the performance of the Phantom that was carrying it. The improved performance was to be obtained by using water injection for pre-compressor cooling, which would provided increased engine thrust at high altitudes. A similar system had been used successfully in the past in various F-4 record attempts. The water was to be contained in a pair of gigantic 2500-gallon tanks which were to be attached conformally to the intersection joints of the fuselage spine and the engine nacelles. The water injection system promised to give a 150 percent increase in engine thrust at altitude. In order to accommodate the increased engine thrust that would now be available, new air intakes had to be designed. The area of the intakes was to be made much larger and they were to contain a sophisticated system of internal cowls, splitter plates, vortex generators and bleeds. With the new intakes and the water injection system, it was anticipated that maximum speeds of up to Mach 3.2 and cruising speeds of up to Mach 2.7 could be attained. The project came to be known as the F-4X, although this was not an official USAF designation.

Israel was clearly very interested in the F-4X, as it promised a a performance which would approach that of the USAF's SR-71. This would enable it to fly unimpeded anywhere it wanted to. However, the advanced performance of the F-4X clearly made it a possible candidate for a new interceptor. Consequently, the US State Department became more than a little worried about the export of such advanced technology overseas, since it promised to give Israel a potential interceptor which was more capable than anything currently in the US arsenal, one which might one day pose a threat to the SR-71. In addition, the Air Force was itself rather nervous about the F-4X project, since it might threaten to divert support away from the F-15 program which was just then getting underway. As a result, the State Department decided to disallow export of this technology to Israel.

McDonnell F-4X/RF-4X Phantom II

Pictures found on this:




Question:
Does anyone have access to further information on this project?

I found it to be quite interesting, especially the technology that would have been used at the time period this project was being worked on and/or considered.

Thoughts or comments welcome.




seekerof




posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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dude thats so wierd, i just watched a video on it and just logged on to post and as soon as i get on i see this. strange coincidence huh?

actually it gained a 150 % thrust increase and was actually deployed as an air superiority fighter even though it was never used for its original design.

[edit on 24-4-2005 by phantompatriot]



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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WOW that's really cool, good find!

So why didn't the US persue this further? it would have been an excellent interceptor MiG-25 style or even MiG-31 style.

it looks pretty cool too.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Excelent interceptor with 2 "gigantic waterfilled 2500-gallon tanks" greatly reducing payload and range? I don't think so. Maybe cheap short range recon plane for Israelies. The US already had SR-71 able to sustain higher speed and with much longer range. Also please not the Mach 2.7 cruise speed doesn't mean supercruise it was probably only maximum "recommended" speed (Mig-25 has also 3.2 max speed but it is definitely not recomended to try it) so with afterburner the range would suck even more.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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I'm grateful that DOD cancelled the project, the aircraft looks ugly compared to the Black Bird, and it was not as capable as the SR.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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it actually saw service as a superiority fighter for a very short period. Its a coinicidence how i was about to post this.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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- Interesting stuff. Always something new, eh?

I was looking at a couple of the links and saw a reference to a new high wing variable geometry version of the Phantom II (the McDonnell F-4(FV)S Phantom II).

home.att.net...

- It appears the UK was offered this version once upon a time too.
www.ibiblio.org...

- I couldn't see any pics and I wonder if any Phantom nuts have anything to see on this rarity?



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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as posted by sminkeypinkey
I couldn't see any pics and I wonder if any Phantom nuts have anything to see on this rarity?


None to be found, as of yet, sminkeypinkey.
Did find more information on it though.


The most dramatic proposed modification of the Phantom was a "swing wing" or "variable geometry" derivative of the F-4J, designated the "F-4 (FVS)", promoted in the mid-1960s by McDonnell. The wings would be shoulder-mounted and would be able to sweep from 23 to 75.5 degrees. The Navy was very leery of this idea, since the service wanted a new fighter rather than an updated version of an older one, and lobbied for the Grumman F-14 Tomcat instead.

Phantom Variants
McDonnell Douglas F-4J / F-4S / Assorted Variants




seekerof



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:37 AM
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The idea of enhancing existing aircraft with swing wings was very popular in the 1960's, I had never previously heard of this Phantom variant though, great work


If you look at the spate of these kind of projects from the mid sixties when variable geometry was felt to be the perfect solution for conflicting military requirements you will see that VG developments of both the Lightning and TSR 2 were proposed by BAC while HSA even projected a VG supersonic light fighter based on the Gnat! France of course actually flew the Mirage G which was a VG adaptation of the Mirage F.2 while the most famous and most successful of all these adaptations was the Sukhoi Su-17, the VG development of the Su-7.

[edit on 26-4-2005 by waynos]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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At a Marine core base in Qauntico they have an F-4X not a F-4F or F-4G an F-4X its on display. they also have some hovercraft and captured iraqi tanks on display.



posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Howabout an F-4 Phantom with diamond shaped 'butterfly wings' like the
F-35, F-22, and YF-23?.

I sound mad asking this becouse it is quite an old airframe but if this idea was true, It would be called the F-4Z Phinal Phantom!

Although the F-4 Phantoms are old, I still see them as a decent medium fighter and no real need to replace them.

Dont the Italians still fly the older Lockheed F-104s?






[edit on 28-3-2006 by Browno]



posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Looks like a good interceptor but I dont really see how they could even expect that to reach mach 3. Those two HUGE tanks on the side probably wouldnt do very good for aerodynamics. Pretty nice thrust boost though, love the VG wing design too.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by truttseeker]



posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 04:51 AM
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Waynos,
It's not the first time you speak of that TSR 2 with VG and I'm really curious what that would have loocked like so if you have any pics....
you'l make the thread a lot more interesting



posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 07:04 AM
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I have very hard to believe that a slitly modified F-4 could reach mach 3... Changing the wings and the engines won't do it... but great post though...



posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Browno
Howabout an F-4 Phantom with diamond shaped 'butterfly wings' like the
F-35, F-22, and YF-23?.

I sound mad asking this becouse it is quite an old airframe but if this idea was true, It would be called the F-4Z Phinal Phantom!




PS. This idea doesn't make any sense at all. The "Butterfly" wings are mainly the result of stealth concerns, and the F-4's fuselage layout is not stealthy by any stretch of the imagination.

[edit on 29-3-2006 by planeman]



posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by vorazechul
Waynos,
It's not the first time you speak of that TSR 2 with VG and I'm really curious what that would have loocked like so if you have any pics....
you'l make the thread a lot more interesting


Normally flattery would get you anything but the only picture I have ever seen of this project was a model displayed at a 1960's Farnborough alongside a VG Lightning and this is in the book 'Project Cancelled' by Derek Wood and I have mislaid my copy. Maybe a job for ebayman!



posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Pretty good find. I was a Crew Chief on RF-4C's in England from 1981-1983.

Here is some follow up to the F-4X.
Following the collapse of the F-4X project, a less-ambitious project known
as the F-4E(S) was undertaken. Three Israeli Air Force Block-44 F-4Es
(among them 69-7576) were converted to a special high-speed reconnaissance
configuration by replacing the F-4E radar and gun installation with a new
nose containing the HIAC-1 66-inch focal length long range oblique
photography camera. Behind the HIAC-1 camera was a vertical KS-87 camera.
The three aircraft were also fitted with datalink, Elta IFF and UHF, and
formation-keeping strip lights. In the interest of security, a false black
radome was painted on the nose.

USAF serials of the three aircraft were 69-7567, 7570, and 7576. The flight
test program began on November 20, 1975 and was carried out in high secrecy.
The three planes carried US civil registration numbers based on their
military serials (N97576, N97570, and N97567). The modified aircraft were
returned to the Israeli Air Force in 1976-77. Their subsequent history is
largely unknown, although rumors suggest that [at] least one of them has
been lost in action.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by phantompatriot
 


Ok "phantompatriot", I get it. You get all you're information from ACE COMBAT.
Read a book, email Boeing, since they own McDonnell Douglas. The USAF never used a plane that was never built as an air superiority, recon, interceptor, or what have you. The F4X would probably fall apart in midair if it reaced the speeds they wanted it to reach. The F4 was intended for bombing, and strike, it's air to air role is as deluded as the Luftwaffe over reliance on the F-104. You also say that there is one on display. I don't know if that designation was used for a phantom, but there is no real F4X, just a mock up!
Be a little more fair, because even I love the F4, but don't think it's something it's not. After all, an F-8 Crusader could out do it in a mock dogfight.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by phantompatriot
 


What are you talking about! That's from that video game! You can't just "increase power 150%", the plane would disintegrate. In fact, the Phantom could barely go air to air because it was a fighter bomber! Use fact, not some wishful thinking on the part of some Japanese game nerds who don't know a thing about aviation.




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