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The Conspiracy of Religious Disinformation

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posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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.
Saint4God,
I remember once someone trying to convert me to mormonsim,
In the very first page or so of the LDS bible,
God had one of his followers murder someone who was sitting at home counting their gold, for no apparent reason.

Frankly my liberal upbringing was shocked by this.
That was it for me.

Somehow becoming an unquestioning hitman for God doesn't strike me as being moral, ethical, or in any way decent.

God's killing of thousands of children in Egypt simply to persuade the Pharoh, is a grossly obscene choice of actions on the part of a supposedly all [quite] powerful God.
Are you willing to become a faithful unquestioning hitperson for God, Saint4God?

If being religious means you have to completely lose your own moral compass, it makes no sense to me.

If the price of conversion [ticket to heaven] is losing your own personal humanity, then you have sold your soul for a ticket to heaven.
Selling your Soul to Satan for worldly things or God for eternal bliss, is far too similar for my comfort.

If there is a true and grand God of some kind, I suspect He/She/it is probably far more savy than the capricious tyrrant of the bible. He sounds like an unhappy, power drunk madman and not the gentle architect and constructor of a beautiful world.

If lightning strikes me so be it, but the average law abiding person has higher moral values than the old testament God and frankly many of his past and present day followers.

I will wait till i find a God who can live up to my values or at least explain his, rather than selling my soul for some promise of an eternal drunken rave.

edit: spelling

[edit on 29-6-2005 by slank]




posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
how do you read a book with 'truth and understanding'. surely reading a book, is still reading a book. you're not reading it one way or another. the bible's got some crazy s**t in it. its got some good points to make as well. lessons to be learnt, teachings to be taught and so on.


I can see where you're coming from *nods*, except I'd go further to say it's got a whole lotta good points so I guess we're on the same page here. I guess it would'be been better for me to say to read it seeking for truth and understanding, not finding things to go, "aha! I think I know how to blast this" or "no possible way could that ever happen". A lot of people use the phrase "with an open heart" but that has a emotional appeal moreso than a skeptics appeal I think. I think it's asking a lot, if you can read with and open heart, then by all means go for it.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
im certain the way a christian views the bible and reads the bible is completly different to the way an athiest may look at it.


Every time I read it I see a different way or more. As life experiences change, so does one's perpective and applications. I've read it as an agnostic so I know what that's like but you're right, I don't know how an athiest sees it any further than what I'm told.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
a classic example of what my christian friend usually does, and i've told her time and time again she keeps doing this. is hearing something and just flat out believing it. i doubt its the same for all christians, but she always does it with her religion. she told me at church their youth leader had told them about bible codes, showed them a few examples, and she now believes them to be true. i think on the surface it would be hard to say 'hey wait, maybe they're not true'...however, you only need to think for a moment, go look at some evidence and realise its not true, as you can find codes in any book.


I can agree with that. But then again, you're talking to a fellow skeptic. There are times when I wish I wasn't so critical. Makes me look like a fool sometimes when I test something I should already know to be true. I can see the stove is hot, but gotta touch it to prove it. OUCH!



Originally posted by shaunybaby
so i guess my point is, that when she looks at the bible she's not thinking 'is this true or false what im reading'...she's thinking 'this is true'. so she's already got a biased opinion before she's even read the bible. the way to read the bible would be with an open mind.


Candidly it's easier to see the application and reasoning behind it if you go with the fundamental thought that it is in fact true and apply it. If you're not sure, then you first have to wrestle, test, etc. for it's validity. It slowed me up quite a bit. What now can I do with that lost time? Nothing. The only positive thing about that experience is that a can claim to having done so.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
on the surface matthew, mark, luke and john look like four eye witness accounts of jesus life. however, scholars have found this to be untrue, these writing many decades after jesus died, they're all copied from one another, they share so many mistakes and differences and with this knowledge you can look at the four gospels and say 'they're not eye witness accounts...how accurate are they'.


Here's the problem. If they were in collusion, they would not have made the 'mistakes' pointed out by non-believers such as the sequence of events in the resurrection. If they were not in collusion, then we do have the similar stories told from four different perspectives. I'm going to go with the 2nd one, since the 1st doesn't make logical or reasoning sense to me for now.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
if you're not asking question about your faith, about the bible and so on then you should. if you asked those questions and after you still have faith, then it can only make it stronger.


I agree. However, I will say that you should be asking someone who has the knowledge and background to discuss these matters. To go to someone who has an agenda to throw in emotion rather than fact is a danger. Since we've made the decision to follow God, we can also make the decision not to follow God (which would mean denying the proof received and not following the faith). The Epistles warn of this continually. As a Christian, I'm not going to go to a fortune teller to ask when Christ will return.


[edit on 29-6-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by slank
Saint4God,
I remember once someone trying to convert me to mormonsim,


I'm not mormon and would be a fool to think I could convert anyone. God converts people. I'm only here to help if people want it.


Originally posted by slank
In the very first page or so of the LDS bible,
God had one of his followers murder someone who was sitting at home counting their gold, for no apparent reason.

Frankly my liberal upbringing was shocked by this.
That was it for me.

Somehow becoming an unquestioning hitman for God doesn't strike me as being moral, ethical, or in any way decent.


This shocks me too. First page of the LDS bible? Well then, glad it's not in mine. I've found God to be very reasonable. That being said...


Originally posted by slank
God's killing of thousands of children in Egypt simply to persuade the Pharoh, is a grossly obscene choice of actions on the part of a supposedly all [quite] powerful God.
Are you willing to become a faithful unquestioning hitperson for God, Saint4God?


Egypt had plenty of opportunity at that time. You also have to consider a few things. One is what Jesus says about children. Another is why the first borns were chosen as a consequence. There's a whole story in there and it is about Old Testament justice - an eye for an eye and such. Now before everyone goes all up in arms, the reason for Jesus' coming was to explain and fulfill how the heart should be and how simply living by the law was not enough. A total facinating subject when explored in the whole context of the Bible instead of piece-mealing phrases to suit an argument.

I am told in many ways not to kill. Two that are in the Bible are Exodus 20:13 are Matthew 5:43. Old Testament + New Testament. How about that? God is consistent. So goes for the an actual relationship with God. One finds out that He speaks His words as they are written. That's why I tell people who are having difficultly with any parts of the Bible to ask God. He's not dead nor molded into pages. Give him a call.


Originally posted by slank
If being religious means you have to completely lose your own moral compass, it makes no sense to me.


I agree.


Originally posted by slank
If the price of conversion [ticket to heaven] is losing your own personal humanity, then you have sold your soul for a ticket to heaven.


Whoa whoa, wait a second. Why would God give us individuality then demand we give it up? That doesn't make sense. No, the price of conversion is not losing yourself. Proven by me and any other Christian out there. Of course you'd have to know the 'before' person to be able to see that, but there are enough people in my life who can validate that.


Originally posted by slank
Selling your Soul to Satan for worldly things or God for eternal bliss, is far too similar for my comfort.


Well, then you haven't met both. Satan demands you give up your soul to him in the afterlife (sometimes in this life too depending on the arrangement). God give you eternal bliss FOR your soul. Polar opposite in differences.


Originally posted by slank
If there is a true and grand God of some kind, I suspect He/She/it is probably far more savy than the capricious tyrrant of the bible. He sounds like an unhappy, power drunk madman and not the gentle architect and constructor of a beautiful world.


Explain this 'capricious tyrrant' other than what we've already gone over in this and other threads. He is as you hope - gentle, architectural, and constructive of more than just this world.


Originally posted by slank
If lightning strikes me so be it, but the average law abiding person has higher moral values than the old testament God and frankly many of his past and present day followers.


Law? Let's discuss law origin. Where did this 'law' come from? Anyhow, God isn't going to strike you down for not believing. He did that with people who turned their backs, yet it was not enough to get people to learn. There is a way now as planned, promised and delivered, giving us the opportunity to choose and believe.


Originally posted by slank
I will wait till i find a God who can live up to my values or at least explain his, rather than selling my soul for some promise of an eternal drunken rave.

edit: spelling

[edit on 29-6-2005 by slank]


God doesn't live up to OUR values, it's this kind of selfish thinking that caused us to drift away in the first place. He makes the rules and sure, He has been willing to demonstrate or explain why. I'd suggest a heart-to-heart with Him about it as a first step. My advice would be to keep an open mind to hear His side as to what is the right thing to do and why.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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Well, first we need to stop referring to god as Masculine. Ancient Hebrew, Phoenician, aramiac and greek do not refer to god as strictly masculine.
When in the act of creation, God is referred to in the Feminine. Creativity, nurturing, protective are usually referred to in the Feminine.
When God is killing, rampaging, vengefull, God is usally referred to in the Masculine.
There are times when God is referred to as Both Male and Female, and this makes sense. How could there be a strictly Male God? the Universe is comprised of opposites in everything, except for God? We have this misconception due to translation ommisions by kings and knaves, fools and emperors.

Law is not biblical in origin. Hammurabai is the most famous but there are codes of conduct handed down before him as well, dating back to thousands of years before the ten commandments were supposed to be given to Moses.

The bible has been denied its intended purpose by the lust for power. Instead of lifting your brother and sister up, people used it to hunt witches and condemn anyone that doe not believe as they do. If people had written only what Jesus intended this world would be a far better place to live in.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by toolmaker

Well, first we need to stop referring to god as Masculine. Ancient Hebrew, Phoenician, aramiac and greek do not refer to god as strictly masculine.


I see what you mean. But our language has yet to develop gender neutral though a game I used to play used to use "sie" for s/he and "hir" for him/her. That was cool. Why don't we do that these days?


Originally posted by toolmaker
When in the act of creation, God is referred to in the Feminine. Creativity, nurturing, protective are usually referred to in the Feminine.
When God is killing, rampaging, vengefull, God is usally referred to in the Masculine.
There are times when God is referred to as Both Male and Female, and this makes sense. How could there be a strictly Male God? the Universe is comprised of opposites in everything, except for God? We have this misconception due to translation ommisions by kings and knaves, fools and emperors.


I remember Sister Baxter and Sister Storm (two mormons who visited regularly) who insisted God was male. I asked "Why does God need a gender? Is He going to reproduce?" After what I thought was a dodgy answer they were somehow trying to link it to Mary. I said, "then the Holy Spirit is male" and they dropped it, telling me to just pray about it. So, I did.



Law is not biblical in origin. Hammurabai is the most famous but there are codes of conduct handed down before him as well, dating back to thousands of years before the ten commandments were supposed to be given to Moses.


Harmmurabai's code isn't no ten commandments though. And interesting read and can see a semblance of order, but when put next to Exodus and Leviticus, it's a bit...well...small legally speaking.



The bible has been denied its intended purpose by the lust for power. Instead of lifting your brother and sister up, people used it to hunt witches and condemn anyone that doe not believe as they do. If people had written only what Jesus intended this world would be a far better place to live in.


The problem is not what's written in the Book, the problem is what people choose to pursue on their own. Jesus spoke of loving your neighbor AND your enemy. How can you love them yet burn them?

[edit on 29-6-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 04:35 AM
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god hasn't got a sex. he's neither a he or she. he doesn't have male or female genitals...well im pretty sure he doesn't. we only refer to god as 'he' because otherwise we'd have to say 'it'...and i guess calling god 'it' doesn't sit well with most people.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by slank
God's killing of thousands of children in Egypt simply to persuade the Pharoh, is a grossly obscene choice of actions on the part of a supposedly all [quite] powerful God.
The understanding of what death actually is, and its functional purpose in our present age is not prevalent. The majority of the world see physical death as the end, and many of those who realize it is just a doorway feel that the doorway is one that leads back to anonymous union with physical matter in general (i.e. flowers, rocks, etc)
True, our physical bodies may become compost, and the spirit that gives us life will return to God. But what we call death is only a cessation of self-awareness and memory.

The thing is, above all the explanations, that if there is truly is a Creator God who created all life, then whether we think His actions are right or wrong; or whether we choose to acknowledge Him with belief, based on our own ideas of what is moral or not, or any other reason--regardless of what we might think, if He exists, then we exist because He put us here. And if He decides to remove us from here, what can we really say? A God that can create worlds and all that live within said worlds can do whatever He pleases--sans the approval of any of us.

By the same token, if such an idea prevents a person from willingness to believe, it certainly doesn't mean He will cease to exist, nor will His impunity in doing as He wills be any less.

And after He is believed in and trusted, He makes it clear to those who are willing to take such a chance, the express reasons that He does the things we cannot understand. But these things don't make sense to those who don't believe.

But death is not a bad thing. It is an evitable thing. And the 'life' that it ends is never really ours, anyway--no matter if we do as we please or as God wills.





If being religious means you have to completely lose your own moral compass, it makes no sense to me.
Me neither. Religion is a completely useless institution, for those who really seek God. Religion is designed to not make sense--and those who don't feel the necessity for logic don't have a problem with it.

But God is not illogical and He always makes sense, even though at times it is hard for us to see. But He will show us if we ask Him to (instead of looking for answers in religion)





If there is a true and grand God of some kind, I suspect He/She/it is probably far more savy than the capricious tyrrant of the bible. He sounds like an unhappy, power drunk madman and not the gentle architect and constructor of a beautiful world.
Indeed! He is a gentle (yet unspeakably powerful) architect, as well as genius in all various areas of science (physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc) He must be, He created the things that cause us to study them under those categories! He is, in truth, merciful and kind beyond human understanding and loves every soul He ever gave life to.

But the way the bible has been translated, especially through the mouths of the 'good men of God' in this world, has made Him out to be something altogether different. For the express purpose of persuading those who love truth and justice, and all things positive and good, to look elsewhere for the truth. The most powerful truth, the only truth, does lie in the God who is our Creator and Savior--and it is so powerful and full of guaranteed positive energy that those who run this world must do all they can to hide that power. Because it converts the soul and defeats the rebellious princes who rule for now.

There is no hell, and there is not a single thing of value that any soul should expect to lose by giving up their trust to God. I have lost much, but it has been things like stress, my place in the perpetual man-made rat-race, insecurities, worries, and strife.

The false promises of 'life' given in the world's assortment of religious halls is a disguised enslavement, and so to believe that the majority of religious representation is true is their best mode of attack: either a person is fooled into believing that a lie is the truth, or they are repelled by the lie and so reject the truth which is hidden apart from that lie.

Don't let names fool you.




I will wait till i find a God who can live up to my values or at least explain his, rather than selling my soul for some promise of an eternal drunken rave.

Good for you! There is such a God out there, I know Him. He's even the one written of in the bible, but He will reveal that to you in His own time. Just know that He's there, and real, and all things that make sense are of Him.
I know because I know Him, and most 'christians' get mad at me for saying this, but I feel I must say it to you, for encouragement: There are very few people in the entire world who truly can say they know--and so their voice is not heard at all, except like this, one by one.

Don't give up on the Truth!



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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I believe I'll take Clarke's 3rd Law as the source for most religions any day; especially Old Testament accounts. I think New Testament content is a different matter. OT can be contributed to naivete & ignorance, but the NT has been engineered & retrofitted for a specific purpose.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by Lordling]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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Bible code, if it exists at all, is probably only in the original Torah (first 5 books), but people have been extending it looking for it in all of both the Old and New Testaments. The whole thing probably is a diversion from the true meaning of the Bible


Exactly, looking for truth in a bastardized version of the original text.
"Let no man alter, not one dot..." says it rather well, as does "Let him that hath understanding reckon"... sure sounds like counting (ELS) to me.

As to the validity of bible code, a couple of points here... Bible Code software wasn't available until present day (computer age) even though it has been sought after for hundreds of years...and why the stern warning about altering even a single dot? 2005 is half over, Bible Code predicts WMD's in the Bekka valley will be used... time will tell.
Many argue the bible was written by man, yet fail to have the BELIEF that words are inspired by God. I know this for fact. Had you the experience I had you would have no doubts either.
Islam bases its religion on the writings of their prophet muhammad. Yet muhammad wrote the q'uran over a 25 year period and Jesus even fortells of false prophets coming in His name (prophet about covers it)

Further, no truly peaceful religion would condone the acts of barbarism prevalent within the muslim world and yet they pray 5 times a day. Isn't it obvious where the disinfo is coming from?
I am not saying Muslim's are evil, they have been decieved (great deciever) and have been following a faith that has a billion souls plus on the brink of Armageddon. Jesus had a simple message to all, love one another. The devil has the world so fragmented that nothing short of the Second Coming will ever bring world peace.
What does world peace require to happen in order to come into effect? Simple enough, everyone has to stop fighting, forgive and forget, stop the retaliation mentality and get along with each other. You know this isn't going to happen so Armageddon (as written in the book of revelations) is the only thing that will bannish to hell the war prone and salvation is the Christian way.

Having said that, there is evil everywhere, in every society, in every religion. The basic message remains, renounce your evil ways and Humble yourselves before God and "accept" his salvation that Jesus offered his life to buy for you.
If you don't, and this is free-will, then I pity you for the anguish which is about to befall you. How will you explaiin your denial of Him after he gave up his life for you?
Denial is not a river in Egypt, and this is the year of "OUR" Lord 2005 (and counting)
As I stated on a different thread, want proof, watch it happen (that is the only thing that will make it Truth to some), want salvation, humbly accept the Lord's grace and let him fill you with the Holy Spirit.

Why some find it so hard to accept my Lord I wish I knew the answer to, but the answer I have to prove my Lord does in fact exist is simple enough, accept him and you will see.
"Blessed are those who believeth yet have not seen"

I have seen and feel like I have been blessed even before entering the Kingdom of Heaven. So have many other Christians, many who have media campaigns in order to convince the rest of you who still don't believe. Some take this as being forced into our Faith, ... understand that Christianity forces nothing on anyone anywhere, at any time (and I am not speaking of the organizations, I speak of the personal one on one relationship that you have with God, He asks so little, he knocks at the door of your heart and all you have to do is open it. Opening your heart or closing it is entirely up to you (free-will) and will be up to you to either exhalt God with your acceptance or deny Him.
That simple, its between you and God... but heed fair warning, the time to choose is short and sitting on the fence is an acceptance of evil if you know in your heart that it is evil. There is no longer ignorance of His law, you are aware.

In the end time, people of evil leanings will remain evil, all those who would come to the Lord will. The clock is still ticking... Decide with Love and not retaliation against the very being who offers you so much for so little.

Or decide to stay the way you are, my message was of the choice not the end result.
I pray you make the choice soon, one way or the other. I long for peace.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by keybored]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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Another is why the first borns were chosen as a consequence. There's a whole story in there and it is about Old Testament justice - an eye for an eye and such. Now before everyone goes all up in arms


That is one of the main problems with the Bible my friend Saint. There ARE many contradictions. Jesus, the son of GOD and man, states to turn the other cheek. Yet, in the Old Testament it is "an eye for an eye"? Doesn't add up.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That is one of the main problems with the Bible my friend Saint. There ARE many contradictions. Jesus, the son of GOD and man, states to turn the other cheek. Yet, in the Old Testament it is "an eye for an eye"? Doesn't add up.


The nice thing about time is it's chronological, and it changes. We no longer live in tribes. From what I understand the reason for 'an eye for an eye' was not only to keeping things fair, but also to put limits in over-prosecuting. Humans have to grow over time (unlike God) and have to go through sociological changes in order to properly develop. There's a progressing from beginning to the end of the Book. The 10 commandments and the Greatest Commandment Jesus cited are one in the same. So, it's important not only to know our history and read the Old Testament, but also the New, because there Jesus explains what God is doing/thinking and how we as people completely screwed up the law.

We can discuss more on this topic or go through other 'contradictons' but all I ask is to be very specific instead of saying the Bible is bunk and throwing it out. That's too easy. I can do that with any book whether it's valid or not.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 25-7-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:38 AM
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Try to describe the color red to someone who has been blind from birth and then you'd see the difficulties God faced in getting us to believe in Heaven. (Even going all the way back to Adam) That eye for an eye passage would leave the whole world blind and toothless. Jesus counter-manded this himself. Perhaps that color red description is something that took awhile for mankind to warm up to and as a learning curve, we were guided to the ultimate truth. That doesn't mean that OT didn't have acts that we today see as contradictory to Jesus's message of turn the other cheeck, love thy enemy etc., what it did was teach by example.
And you know, this just now occurred to me... we of the Christian Faith so try to convince non-believers of the reality of God, and yet our attempts don't sway others one iota. Jesus did the same thing and ultimately knew it would take his death and subsequent resurrection to get people to listen.

People of that day were no different in their appearance as people of today, it was their thinking that set those times apart from modern day man... a thinking that bordered upon politics/religion/social and moral consciousness. ... or are we so different? I would hate to think that we haven't grown. And the Lord is waiting for us to either reach that level or stagnate ourselves into oblivion (and out of Heaven). ... And morality sure is evident isn't it?

Why is it so hard to take that leap of Faith and simply believe? Because that would take us off our high horses and our ego's couldn't deal with making us inferior. That holier than thou arrogance is what causes world wars in the first place. Swallow your pride and rejoice in the Lord's will, ...until you have done so you will never know lasting peace and contentment. ... but you will know the difference. Isn't it what you strive for?
As to those who have set their minds in concrete disbelief... God still loves you, but as a contradiction to his will, you will find the terminal gates of the other side of his desgn... you can't have the one without the other, hot and cold are two aspects of the same thing, like good and evil are the confines of Faith. In this it is easy to understand why many don't want to believe, they don't want to admit that there is a devil. Look around...

[edit on 25-7-2005 by keybored]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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He sounds like an unhappy, power drunk madman and not the gentle architect and constructor of a beautiful world.


How can you describe God in such a spiteful manner when he can wipe the slate clean with a heartbeat? You will know the wrath of his ire, and it isn't towards the believers in Jesus who will feel it... that doesn't mean that believers won't know it too, they will be witness to the downfall of man.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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Swallow your pride and rejoice in the Lord's will, ...until you have done so you will never know lasting peace and contentment. ... but you will know the difference. Isn't it what you strive for?


This is so true.

However, I will ask you about the "morality" you cited. I see and hear many Christians complaining about the "morality" of today. Yet, in 2004 they went and voted in record numbers for a man that knowingly cooked up his own portion of intelligence, was not honest to the American public, has had over 16,000 of his countrymen slain or severely wounded because of. His environmental records which effects all is terrible, and the taxpayers are being bilked by the billions because "private contractors" are serving meals at $20 per meal per soldier. This company is almost non accountable for it's actions.

Is this good morality, and why do such a great portion of evangelical Christians knowingly support with the facts in their faces? Because he can quote some scripture?



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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I agree with you whole-heartedly. The problem as I stated earlier (maybe a different thread) is that there are good and bad in all religions. To use one's (apparent, remains to be seen) Faith in a political arena is a power grab at best, a ruse at the least, and more than likely a deception that undermines the faith of those who do not have the conviction others feel. It is pure evil in a global sense since it to affects the lives of us all.
Don't put your Faith in man, any man... Faith belongs with God. You can put your trust in a man, if that trust fails you lose nothing other than your naivety, if you lose your faith... well I guess we all know that one, but Faith should remain unwavering.

The morality of Christians as so aptly pointed out comes under question when Christians get duped by one who puts forward belief with their tongue, and destroy the future with their hand. As stated, whether it is of evil itself or just a power grab (which would still be evil), politics and Faith fall into that trap that leads people of all Faiths/religions astray.

To back a political power in God's name is putting your Faith in the party and not in God who is the only one capable of getting us over our differences. The party (and I'd hope I'm wrong here) just milks our blind faith in a man all the while undermining the confidence in the religion that was professed in the first place.
Nobody has all the answers, especially when it comes to political adversity, what works for me is the belief that Jesus sacrificed himself in order to give us a moral conscience... to deny he was the Son of God and to not follow his teachings is leaving it up to the blind to lead the blind. I leave it to God to guide me.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
ive said personally id rather go to hell. there's going to be billions there anyways so its not like im gonna be alone. who cares?
Actually, I think you'd be there all alone, after all.

Except for the fact that it doesn't exist like the good TV preachers attest--they're confused. But right now I guess they can't help it. And every one of us will get straightened all the way out when we get to the same place at the same time.

See you there!



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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Faith belongs with God. You can put your trust in a man, if that trust fails you lose nothing other than your naivety, if you lose your faith... well I guess we all know that one, but Faith should remain unwavering.


This goes to my saying, "Beware the teachings of man, and beware the teachings of the church".

I am a very spiritual person with not just "faith" that GOD is there, but a knowing that GOD is there. I am continually amazed at how easily people are influenced over the use of GOD.

I, and millions like myself, have been called "secular" or whatever fancy name wants to put on it for worshipping GOD my own private way just as Jesus himself stated to do. I don't attend one of those buildings they call a "house of worship". However, in my heart GOD and I are very close.

I, like millions, try to live like Jesus asked. We have our own private relationship with the father, however since we don't attend a "church" and we want "religion"(notice I did not say GOD) out of the government we are villified as being non believers.

We are the true believers in GOD that there is a conspiracy against. We are ganged up against by certain aspects of the media, certain "all knowing" preachers, and by members who claim to be of the same "religion". What I hear coming from the pulpit these days disgusts me in many ways because my relationship in GOD is challenged by those that claim they "know" Jesus.

Frankly, I am getting disgusted with the whole situation. Many more are also.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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touche'
Christians will be persecuted in the end times and I count myself a Christian since I do believe the teachings of Christ. The church saw fit to try to obtain political savy on a scale of leadership and the separation of church/state issue comes into being. Faith is all that is required to enter the Kingdom of heaven, it says nothing at all about political affiliation so in this regard, the devil is having his way since it effectively turns people off Christianity in the first place. Clever deception, but then, we are playing the devils game. God knows your heart and your character is defined by your actions. Live as God-fairing, not God-like.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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It seems whatever else may be argued on this thread, the bottom line always comes down to the Bible; if the bible is reliable, then we can trust it to tell us the truth about God and how He feels about mankind and His plans for us. If, on the other hand, it is not reliable, then everything falls apart and no one can trust it's authority. The five points below show why I believe the Bible is reliable.

I didn't write these points, although, I could have; they are from the web site below.

Why the Bible Is Reliable?

As Christians, we look to the Bible for wisdom to face all the hot topics of life. But is the Bible really all that reliable? Yes! Here are five reasons:

1. It says so. The Scriptures claim to be "the very words of God" (Roman 3:2), written by men who were guided by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21). The human authors of the Bible regarded their writings as revelations from God. (Exodus 24:3-4; Galatians 1:12) and took great care in recording the words of God. (Luke 1:1-4; John 21:24).

2. Jesus said so. Jesus constantly defended the authority and reliability of Scripture, and he promised the supernatural completion of the New Testament (John 10:35; 14:26).

3. Manuscript evidence says so. Although we don't have the original Bible manuscripts, we can trust our modern-day Bibles. The Dead Sea Scrolls date back to the first century A.D. and verify that the Old Testament was handed down through the years with great care. The New Testament is authenticated by thousands of Greek manuscripts, some as early as the second and third century A.D. - very near the time of the original documents. No wonder the New Testament is considered the most attested ancient document of its kind!

4. Prophecy says so. The Bible is packed with prophecies that have been fulfilled with incredible accuracy (Daniel 2,7). many were written hundreds of years before their fulfillment!

5. Archaeology says so. Excavations in this century have constantly confirmed - rather than contradicted - the accuracy of Scripture.

Despite the doubts of some, it is clear that the Bible is reliable Word of God, "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (Timothy 3:16-17).


It is my belief and opinion, that if you are just going to throw the Bible away, out of hand,as a reliable way of knowing what God wants for us, then you better have better logic and arguments then just, "well, everybody knows that..." or " It's just a collections of stories and fables...";
you better be able to prove your points and not ask me to accept them on your say-so. If you want to know what I believe, just read the Bible, all of it, from Genesis to Revelations(I prefer the New American Standard Translation; and that's "translation", not "interpretation.")

I also recommend, to the intrepid searcher , Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell; Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis; and lastly
Who Moved The Stone by Frank Morrison. Incidently, just in case you didn't know, Lewis and Morrison were both atheists before becoming Christians; and Morrison was actually researching the subject to prove that Christianity in general was a waste of time and that the resurrection of Jesus never happened. Somewhere, during the years he spent researching the subject, he changed his mind.

That's all I have to say about that.

Grace and Peace,

Lightseeker


[edit on 7/25/2005 by lightseeker]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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but I dont have any left.

You hit the truth dead center.


There is a handfull of people who's posts regarding Christ and the truth, I like to keep up with. You are one of them




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