The Conspiracy of Religious Disinformation

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
The Bible doesn't explicitly say that they weren't married no, but that's certainly no proof that they were! If you look at the later writings of the apostles in the New Testament their attitude towards marriage would be hard to understand if Jesus was in fact married.

Further to your point on this and on there being nothing that specifically speaks to Mary and Jesus being married, where the latter is taken by others to mean they were in fact not married. There is nothing in the NT gospels that speaks to Jesus being 32/33 years old at his death either, yet, because the verses are interpreted as transcending a yearly feast three times, it is taken that they are chronological. Likewise with his carrying the cross, three gospels portray someone else bearing it for him, but it is accepted norm that the one gospel the one-quarter percent, which claims he carries it, is the one that grabs the attention of the various churches.

No clue. Wow, there's a lot we don't know isn't there? Who made Jesus' sandals? His earthly father was a carpenter, therefore skilled in making things and would have braved shoe-making for Jesus? Surely Mary Magdalene hated Joseph because it is written she was washing Jesus' feet, clearly showing disapproval of Jesus' footwear...


[edit on 29-4-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Here's a thought: the object of the End Times has been an ongoing heart-felt belief since the moment of Christ's death.

The difference is that over the centuries, exploitation of such a belief has reached monumental proportions. That despite this exploitation, there are millions of people who sincerely believe that the End Times is a real event and are still eagerly awaiting its return.

I believe in religious tolerance, for all those of every religious denomination or religion. What I don't buy into is the ever growing monetary exploitation practices that have sprouted over the End Times.





seekerof

Like Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series, like Rant mentioned. Yeah its annoying. i remeber as a kid being forced to go to church, having to listen to ministers and pastors wildly proclaiming the end times were here, to go buy this new "shocking" casset of supposed prophecies from the bible and things expected to come soon. Its in one small part, an aspect of Christianity that totally turned me away from it. All their constant fear mongering and accusations of anti-christ being this person or that, and their own interpretations of the bible....mucho bs that Im sure helped rake in massive profits feeding off paranoia.

It really is sickening, the media cash cow that doomsday end of times "entertainment" makes. The Passion was far more respectable than all this other crap from so called experts in bible prophecy. At least the Passion was biblically accurate and focused on the central themse of Christianity: the sacrifice Jesus made for the world of humans who reviled and abused him mercilessly: his compassion and forgiveness for those who mocked him, ect. Mel Gibson did a FAR better service to the whole Christian faith with his movie than so called "authorities" on prophecy and Christianity, Like LaHaye, Robertson, ect have done with their "ministries".

I agree with you in part, but not all.
I cant stand the same sickening garbage that repulses you. It didnt turn me away from Christ though.
I dont agree with you about Lehaye. I dont know everything the guy has done but there is one thing...he is bringing people to christ with the Left Behind books. Many of them end up at tribulationforces.com (inspired by the books).
The other stuff.."Go out and by this cassette.." Wny not, "Read book,chapter:verse?
Oh well.
All that fake crap is just another tool of satan to take as many down with him as he can.
But dont say anything bad about them...because then your judging. LOL
Like a catch 22.
Judge fruit and the tree. Thats what Jesus said. If the fruit sucks then the tree is evil.
Dont convict anyone tho. Thats all.
Even a non christian with a balanced mind should be able to run with that.

Originally posted by jake1997
he is bringing people to christ with the Left Behind books.
Many of them end up at tribulationforces.com ...

The Left Behind books are nothing more than thinly veiled
(or not veiled at all) anti-Catholic propaganda by a man who
probably has an obsessive/compulsive disorder (against
Catholics) and who is raking in the $$$ from people who
don't know any better. His Bob Jones University connections
are enough to stop anyone from believing anything he has
to say. (remember Bob Jones University? Anti-black. Anti-Catholic.
Anti-anyone-but-us).

Pushing the made up rapture notion (invented in the mid-1800s)
is not bringing people to Christ.

Recycled Rapture (This Rock: September 2001)
www.catholic.com...
The Rapture
www.catholic.com...
No Rapture for Rome (This Rock: November 2000)
www.catholic.com...

Recycled Rapture is interesting. A little more information on
the authors. Very interesting reading.

Planting false seeds of disinformation against Catholics is not
bringing people to Christ.

And that forum site you referenced is a sick joke. They are not
bringing people to Christ at that site. They waste time discussing
an invented rapture that isn't biblical and that isn't going to
happen. They waste time trashing other faiths and religions
that don't exactly agree with their biblical interpretation.
They have fallen into the 'end of the world' trap. I suppose
if they keep saying it long enough eventually it will happen
and they will claim they predicted it.



[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]

The books and the media are so popular because people are told every sunday by there shepard to be sheep. over and over. these shepards are members of national and international orgizations intent on bringing about the end of days, they are taking it upon themselves to make this happen, they think they are doing God's work....but I think God has his own plans.

Who are the pharacees in our would Jesus spoke often about these people, but I never here about them in todays society.

In the end times many will come in the name of Jesus but not be about Jesus... Read about RFID, Verichip, Ect....these are the mark of the beast as stated in Revalations....these things are right around the corner. Allready things you buy at wal-mart are tagged, cars, pets, and for now some people....what will you do when you can't get medical attention, or buy food, or pay your utilities unless you are chipped....

About the left behind movies and books....i think they are fiction, because I don't believe in a Pre-tribulation rapture, and christen religons did not preach these things before a conference in 1906.....and just how many such conferences have happened since Jesus death and resurrection?

The intollerance being spread in the USA about gay marrage, gay rights, and such go against Jesus's preaching about love, not judging, tollerance
turning the other cheek ect...ect...

We all live in a very scary would were the worlds religons seem to be currupted by greed, money, power, self-righteousness...so next Sunday before you put your money into the offering plate.....you might what to think about what this money is gonna do...who it really is gonna serve

Originally posted by RANT


But from your religious angle, I'd put Tim LaHaye right at the top of the list of people spreading disinformation for gain.

His Left Behind series is fiction being pushed as truth in some circles and a cultural, political and religious movement to boot.

! ole ,

there is this Spin-off found at www.raptureready.com...

i really think this is a pleasure to behold,
...taken with a generous pinch of salt !!

you do see the cottage industry growing, no?

enjoy,

Saying that the rapture was invented in the 1800's really shows a lack of bible reading and history lessons.

Poor Jake .. still not bothering to read what is posted, are you?

Recycled Rapture (This Rock: September 2001)
www.catholic.com...
The Rapture
www.catholic.com...
No Rapture for Rome (This Rock: November 2000)
www.catholic.com...

Lack of understanding of History? Coming from you that's rich.
Jake - 'If it ain't in the bible it didn't happen and I don't believe it'
READ and educate yourself Jake. The Rapture was INVENTED
escapist theology from the 1800s. Your cultist buddies over at
tribforces dot com are whooping it up over INVENTED escapist
theology... something they continually accuse others (mainly
Catholics) of doing - inventing theology. Rapture theology is
MAN MADE. Read it's history. Read the bible with some help.

2 Peter 3:16 - St. Paul said - certain things hard to be understood
which the unlearned and unstable wrest (distort), as they do also
the other scriptures, to their own destruction."

And read the book 'The Rapture Trap'. It will enlighten you and
help you escape your cult.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree that the "rapture" notion has been fabricated from the twisting of scripture. I don't see any Biblical foundation in thinking any of us have done anything to warrant a get out of jail free card.

Nah...it aint there.

And this is possibly one of the most dangerous false-teachings that has corrupted the Christian religion. It's terribly terribly dangerous.

Originally posted by Valhall
I'm sorry, but I have to agree that the "rapture" notion has been fabricated from the twisting of scripture. I don't see any Biblical foundation in thinking any of us have done anything to warrant a get out of jail free card.

Nah...it aint there.

And this is possibly one of the most dangerous false-teachings that has corrupted the Christian religion. It's terribly terribly dangerous.

First

What makes you think of it as a get out of jail free card?
Do you feel that there is some amount of suffering that you need to do? Jesus did all of that for us. To think we need to do it for redemption is a pagan idea.

Im sure you know of the Thes verses and here is a study I posted on BTS showing the Genesis - Enoch example,

www.belowtopsecret.com...

so here is some more from Revelation.

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

We know that 'that' hour has not yet come.

We also know that the Great Tribulation is also the time of Jacobs trouble.
God will use those plagues to turn the hearts of Israeli's to him. They will see the one whom they pierced and weep as for an only son.
Paul tells us that the rapture will not happen until there is a falling away...and then the man of sin is revealed.

So now... if Paul was talking about the second coming...which we know is at the end....then it is all messed up because the AC is just being revealed.

BUT

If Paul was talking about the rapture in THess...then it makes sense and agrees with Revelation and Genesis.

[edit on 12-6-2005 by jake1997]

I am not so sure that all the disinformation you reference is necessarily done for evil reasons. Like anything that needs a popular boost it may be that to get more people interested in religion or to get their foot in the door you have to get there interest. It would not surprise me to find that even some religions put out some "wild and crazy" stuff in hopes of getting new members and then once they have them, properly teach them the religion. I do think that society continues to move toward a great split between science and creation that is forcing many to start to investigate for themselves. In a time were there is such distress in the world many do find comfort in religion while others may find it in science and facts.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

I believe this is where the idea comes from. My question is "who cares what the order of business is?" because our lives can end in the next second. If you're not ready now, then when tomorrow never comes, you're not going to be ready then either. It's great for Bible Trivia but when it comes down to it, you need to find out where you are going to be after your last day if you haven't done so already.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 13-6-2005 by saint4God]

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Probably the most misinterpreted passage in the Bible. Most interpret as Christians souls waiting in some sort of slumber for the second coming before heading to the promised land.

It could be read another way one knows.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The Da Vinci Code represents Christ as a married man who passed on his bloodline to the kings of Europe through a child had by Mary Magdalene. Different sects of Christianity may have separate takes on how this would affect the religion if it were true, but the fact remains that there's virtually no evidence scripturally or otherwise to support these supposed historical events.

Nor is there any evidence that it is NOT as such.

Just because there is not evidence to validate a concept does not mean the concept is false.

Turn the concept around ......... show me evidence he was NOT married.

Misfit

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Probably the most misinterpreted passage in the Bible. Most interpret as Christians souls waiting in some sort of slumber for the second coming before heading to the promised land.

It could be read another way one knows.

I was being particually careful not to interpret, just quoting. It ups to ya'll to take it how it comes. Read before and after to be sure, but I think this is a pretty 'stand-alone' piece. Again, again, what difference does it make? Jesus makes plenty of parables about separation of peoples postmortem. All we have to do is decide the here and now so we'll know where we'll be if we don't see tomorrow here on earth.

Okay, now I need a happy subject. Did you know miracles were going on even after Jesus' ascension and are still going on today? Too bad ATS focus' only on the negative in this section. "Oooh! Conspiracy, lookout!"

[edit on 13-6-2005 by saint4God]

I was being particually careful not to interpret, just quoting. It ups to ya'll to take it how it comes. Read before and after to be sure, but I think this is a pretty 'stand-alone' piece. Again, again, what difference does it make? Jesus makes plenty of parables about separation of peoples postmortem. All we have to do is decide the here and now so we'll know where we'll be if we don't see tomorrow here on earth.

Okay, now I need a happy subject. Did you know miracles were going on even after Jesus' ascension and are still going on today? Too bad ATS focus' only on the negative in this section. "Oooh! Conspiracy, lookout!"

Unfortunately, my friend saint, it means much to many as I hear what I stated emphasized. However, I do thank you for not interpreting. I wish more would leave interpretation up to the individual. It was the intention of Jesus or he would not have spoken in the ways he did.

Did I know miracles are going on everyday? Yup!!!!!!!!!! Ain't it GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way. Found another GOOD preacherman on the tube. Actually listened to his entire sermon. Of course, he smiled and made many analogies, etc. That was after watching another network for a few minutes and that GOD's love was talked about again with nary a smile.

I believe this is where the idea comes from. My question is "who cares what the order of business is?" because our lives can end in the next second

I disagree.
Who cares? God cares. God put it there.

Originally posted by jake1997
I disagree.
Who cares? God cares. God put it there.

Alright, I see your point. For us Christians it has value, but my focus here is on helping others who do not know Him to find Him, so I don't see how a debate in this area is useful in that respect.

[edit on 15-6-2005 by saint4God]

Partially agreed.
For we will never make headway if we are seen tossing aside parts of that scripture that we proclaim as containing eternal life.

As for the rapture and non-believers...
Using the Thes verses and the Revelation verses and the Genesis verses and the Daniel verses to show how it is repeated over and over may at least convince them that the bible speaks of such an event.

Then

In the event that these people who are risking eternal damnation are left behind at the rapture...they may recall this very thread and turn to God, instead of whatever lie is being told on earth at the time.

It is all vitally important, its just that we as humans, have limited vision even though our eyes are open.
God gave us prophecy so that the non-believer will know that He is the Lord.