The Conspiracy of Religious Disinformation

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posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat

The da vinci code is a fictional novel, that is, it is imaginary. It appeals to people who hold to conspiracy theories, but it makes no claims of being true. It is as true, for example, as a James Bond movie.

Is there any possibility that Jesus and Mary Magdalene married and had children together? No. Did Leonardo da Vinci actually intend to portray a woman at the Last Supper? No, there isn't a shred of historical evidence for such an idea.

According to Brown, the great crime of the church was suppressing what he calls the "sacred feminine" , making the church patriarchal against Jesus' wishes, and choosing four gospels which falsely portray Jesus as the Son of God. It is unclear whether Brown really believes these fictions, or whether he just thinks they make a good story.

The "sacred feminine" is nothing other than the Mother Earth Goddess concept which is common to many pagan religions including Baal worship. There is a description in the book of a pagan ritual with immoral sexual activity that isn't much different from the fertility rites connected with the worship of Baal and his consort that the Old Testament prophets labeled as being both idolatry and adultery.

Leonardo DaVinci evidently was a Grand Master of the Priory of Holy Sion during his lifetime. According to Brown, DaVinci believed that the Church should be worshipping the "sacred feminine" and that Mary was Jesus' wife. Brown claims that DaVinci hid clues to what he believed in his paintings, hence the title of the book.

Every so often somebody comes out with a book that says that the Bible's claims about Jesus are false. Although there is no evidence that the alleged writings of Jesus and Mary Magdalene ever existed, there were early books written about Jesus which were rejected by the early church as pure fantasy. We teach and believe that the four Gospels which are included in the New Testament are there because the church recognized that they are the inspired work of the Holy Spirit and, therefore, what they say about Jesus is the truth.





You asked the question, my friend, about the possible marriage of Jesus and Mary M. You stated that it simply was not true? How could you make such a statement? Please, do not say because it isn't in the Bible. That is a poor defence. I don't know, you don't know.

I do know for centuries the Roman Catholic Church cast Mary M. as a repented prostitute which simply wasn't true. It took many centuries to change their position.

That is why I say always be careful of the teachings of the Church and man. One's church is within their heart where God intended it to be.

Ever seen a corpse with light in one's eyes? Think about that for a little while.




posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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I have a historical document that says one thing, and someone else has no factual documentation contrary. Hm...I wonder which one I'm going to choose...

Why is the Bible no defense? Eveyone here seems to be quick to quote works of stated fiction as the absolute truth. To that I say, "Your works of clearly stated fiction are no defense. Thow out your the argument entirely."



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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good thread

this is something that has interested me for quite awhile...
religion is a touchy subject so different people are harder to talk to than others...
One christian friend of mine and I have many good debates about the bible and some of the controversial and contradictory statements...

another christian friend and I can barely discuss any of it... becuase he is a so literally interpretative... and instead of trying to rectify the contradictions... he is one... (6000yrs old, no such thing as dinosaurs...ect)
since they didn't write it down in the bible... it must not be true, in other words...

IMO These new disinformation books are people trying to build upon the contemporary myths to help reinforce the the controversial statements...
thereby providing a more illistrative and biased example of a bible interpretation...

how many Christians does it take to read revelations?
all of them, because they all have a different interpretation....

these books/movies seem to play of the ambigious chapters and events, to provide ONE type of interpretation... biased towards the speaker...
the speaker might be thinking he is just doing gods work...
when in essence... the bible says clearly...dont add to it, and don't take away from it...
OHHH yeah... I forgot ... religious leaders already did that in the 1500's when "they" decided some books might just confuse believers, so they kicked those out... (gnostic gospels, book of enoch, ect)



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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FlyersFan, what you say is true but it's mainly just differences of interpretation rather than fact. While Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox faiths may have different interpretations of the scripture, it's for the most part the same scripture. My point is the twisting of facts and rewriting of the Bible done by the media and popular culture.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
FlyersFan, what you say is true but it's mainly just differences of interpretation rather than fact. While Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox faiths may have different interpretations of the scripture, it's for the most part the same scripture. My point is the twisting of facts and rewriting of the Bible done by the media and popular culture.


Just to piggy-back if I may. Here's a conversation with me (Protestant) and a Catholic:

Me: So, are you John 3:16?
Catholic: Yes. Are you?
Me: Yup.

(long pause, fingers tapping)

Me: So...ah...wanna order a pizza and play a game?

I guess we could talk about the details of our church and beliefs, but I know I'll be seeing her/him around for a while




[edit on 26-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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I kind of thought religious conspiracies were part and parcel of man's civilization. ATS religious conspiracy thread I think this has been going since long before Christianity.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I have a historical document that says one thing, and someone else has no factual documentation contrary. Hm...I wonder which one I'm going to choose...

Why is the Bible no defense? Eveyone here seems to be quick to quote works of stated fiction as the absolute truth. To that I say, "Your works of clearly stated fiction are no defense. Thow out your the argument entirely."


Does the BIBLE ever speak of the relationship between Jesus and Mary M. Of course, however saint it does not mention ALL. You know that for it has been interpreted and changed for over 2000 years. If you can show me a passage where it specifically says Jesus and Mary M. were not ever married I will agree with you. However, I do not think you will find such passage.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Does the BIBLE ever speak of the relationship between Jesus and Mary M. Of course, however saint it does not mention ALL. You know that for it has been interpreted and changed for over 2000 years. If you can show me a passage where it specifically says Jesus and Mary M. were not ever married I will agree with you. However, I do not think you will find such passage.


The Bible doesn't explicitly say that they weren't married no, but that's certainly no proof that they were! If you look at the later writings of the apostles in the New Testament their attitude towards marriage would be hard to understand if Jesus was in fact married.

I believe that there may have a movement in the Catholic Church to minimize the role of Mary M...but not as a wife, as an important apostle. The male-dominated priesthood would have a hard time explaining why no women could be ordained if one of Jesus' closest disciples was a woman.

[edit on 4/28/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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You saw the RCC send a bunch of thug priests to beat up a woman and steal a baby, a Cardinal send a Catholic assassign to run over a Nun, and the Nun finally join the "good side" by removing her nun clothes and dressing up like a harlot.


It was great.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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I saw it, but, unless I missed something, we don't really know who was in the car trying to run them over, it could have been the satanists or whatever they are. There were those freaky women "models" who were on the plane they saw there too...also the nun ditched her clothes just so that she wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb when someone was trying to find and kill them.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I saw it, but, unless I missed something, we don't really know who was in the car trying to run them over, it could have been the satanists or whatever they are. There were those freaky women "models" who were on the plane they saw there too...also the nun ditched her clothes just so that she wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb when someone was trying to find and kill them.


I know, but that's just the theme I'm getting off the whole thing. Organized church = bad, and truthful sensible people get excommunicated.

That and satanist high school girls are hot.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Recently many fictional stories related to Christianity have garnered much interest in popular culture. ...

[......]

....? Secular forces pushing moral relativism over traditional values are certainly involved, but could there be more, a NWO/Illuminati conspiracy possibly backed by an evil force, even involving the antichrist? I think it's possible.

I'd like to see what members think about any aspect of this...thanks!


[edit on 4/23/2005 by djohnsto77]


((...related to christianity...)) : kinda hard to seperate religious-osity from the western culture i have grown up in...Christians & Catholics & others, permeate every level & aspect of this society...if not a particular doctrine or holiday, then theres a connection thru moral or philosophical wrappings...etc etc etc

)&(
i see little difference between the faiths of today
and the automobile industry with all the makes, models, options, styles.
religions just market theirselves like auto manufacturers do to attract
customers/sales/ bottom lines

~~~~~~~~

I'm not so sure theres an outside 'force'....as much as an internal one
....by that i mean the subconscious desires/beliefs of the greater 'Christian' psyche....look up these memes/ideas/concepts-->>
Armegeddon Politics or Dominionism or Salvationism

i suspect the end-of-times preoccupation today is partly a death-wish,
partly an 'I-told-you-so' attitude, birthed from desperation....partly our
mildly panicked reptilian part of the brain becoming vocalized-->

scriptual prophecies are a convienent way to overturn the
present confusing-amoral-secular-greedy-humanistic-hedonist-worldscape

'K.I.S.S.' , i keep telling myself



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
flyersfan hijacked this thread

I didn't hijack anything. The title is - Conspiracy of
Religious Disinformation. I was talking about all the
disinformation that is being pumped out about different
christian denominations - by other christian denominations.


religious themed media outside of the church

Didn't know that you wanted to limit the disinformation discussion
to just that. Fine. No problem.


he decided to just attack the church instead.

She ... I'm a she. (no biggie ... just letting ya' know )
I didn't attack the church. I pointed out the religious disinformation
that is spewed every Sunday and it is definately a conspiracy that is
happening with it. Definately planned. No attack from me. Can't
clean up the mess if ya'll can't see it. The christian upon christian
disinformation campaign is a MESS.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997
So open the bible and ask God to show you first hand

Jake - In Catholic Mass on Sundays there are 3 scripture
readings - one OT, one Gospel, and one Epistle/NT. During the
weekday daily masses there are two readings. Catholics do indeed
have bibles, read bibles, study bibles, and have 2 or 3 scripture
readings in mass. Protestant churchs also have scripture readings
in their services. All Christians have scripture readings in their
services and access to bibles at home.

Scripture itself calls christians to believe that the church is the
pillar and ground of the truth - (see 1 Tim 3:15) and that the
church is commissioned to teach 'all nations' (see Matt 28:19).
The church was promised that the gates of hell wouldn't
prevail against it (see Matt 16:18). Christ said He would always
be with the church (Matt 28:20) and that He would give it the
Holy Spirit to teach it all truth (John 16:13). Christ emphasized
the authority of His Church and the role it would have in safeguarding
the faith and teachings.

Matt 18:15-18 Christ instructs his disciples on how to correct a
fellow believer ... the Church has the authority.

Scripture itself also says that the church is called to interpret
scripture for the people.

There is also the point St. Peter made - 2 Peter 3:16 - he said
that in St. Paul's episltes there are 'certain things hard to be
understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest (distort),
as they do also the other scriptures to their own destruction'.

Acts 8:26-40 - St. Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. The eunuch
needed interpretation of scripture. "Thinkest thou that thou
understandest what thou readest?" and "and how can I, unless
some man show me?"

and of course 2 Peter 1:20 - "no prohecy of scripture is made
by private interpretation'.

So as far as the simple statement you said - open the bible and
read it for yourself. Sure. We can all do that. And we do.
However the problem comes when the different christian churches
all have different interpretations and the bible itself tells christians
that the churches have the authority and the obligation to
interpret scripture. THAT's the problem. And if all 2.2 billion
christians were to open scripture and interpret every line on
their own as Sola Scripturas wish .. then you'd have 2.2 billion
different interpretations and more squabbling.

When the foundation of a structure crumbles, it can not be considered
a foundation or reliable (Matt 7:26-27)

The inner-Christian-denomination squabbling reminds me of the
of black on black crime in the ghettos. WHY? It doesn't
make sense.

[edit on 4/28/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
Flyersfan, Do you have any comments as to why the Books by Dan brown and so popular? or how they affect both believers and non-belivers?


Absolutely. Just don't take it as an attack against the church. It's not.
In my observations and in my experience -

The Dan Brown books are popular because of one (or more) of the
following - (different reasons depending on the person)

1 - Christians who don't understand their faith.
2 - People who just looooooove it when something or someone
'bigger' than themselves are brought down.
3 - Just old fashioned entertainment value and nothing more.
4 - failure of Christian churches to educate their people about
the DaVinci Code.
5 - The DaVinci Code author is notoriously anti-Catholic (before
the books came out) and he wrote them to arouse interest
from those who hate the Catholic church. Being anti-Catholic
is 'in style'.

Examples

- my athiest dad LOVED DaVinci Code for two reasons - he was
entertained and he loved seeing any organized religion squirm.

- 4 moms on my daughters swim team got the book for Christmas.
They are all 'Catholic' and LOVED the book. They loved it because
they don't understand their faith. I put 'Catholic' in quotes because
they don't follow the faith but only call themselves Catholic out of
habit or cultural reasons.

I was on the religious education committee at my parish. I told the
priest that he's got to give some Sunday homilies (sermons to you
protty's out there
) about the DaVinci Code. The author himself
calls it fiction, and yet there I was with 4 Catholic moms at my daughter's
swim team and they were all saying that the Davinci last supper painting
was a fake and blah blah blah.

Anyways, the Catholic churches here in town are starting to
get it together and will be having sermons about how the Davinci
code is really just a made up story (even the author says it's fiction).
But I think it's too little too late ... the churches missed the bus on
this one.

[edit on 4/28/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Does the BIBLE ever speak of the relationship between Jesus and Mary M. Of course, however saint it does not mention ALL. You know that for it has been interpreted and changed for over 2000 years. If you can show me a passage where it specifically says Jesus and Mary M. were not ever married I will agree with you. However, I do not think you will find such passage.


The Bible doesn't explicitly say that they weren't married no, but that's certainly no proof that they were! If you look at the later writings of the apostles in the New Testament their attitude towards marriage would be hard to understand if Jesus was in fact married.

I believe that there may have a movement in the Catholic Church to minimize the role of Mary M...but not as a wife, as an important apostle. The male-dominated priesthood would have a hard time explaining why no women could be ordained if one of Jesus' closest disciples was a woman.

[edit on 4/28/2005 by djohnsto77]


I certainly know there is no proof either way of their marriage, if they were. My point was that because it is not mentioned in the Bible does not make certain things untrue.

Your point about the Catholic church is very well taken, and known by myself. However, it goes back to what I "teach".

BEWARE OF THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH AND BEWARE OF THE TEACHINGS OF MAN.

This example you gave on Mary M. is a prime example of my "teaching". The fact remains that the church did not want her involvement with the beginning of Christianity to be recognized so they did what they did.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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That is the same ignorance that causes many to believe evilution

"You cant prove it didnt happen". Prove a negative. Ok.

So they find a book they dont believe, and read about the Son of God who they say dont exists, and then say that he married a woman who also did not exist, because the book they dont believe, doesnt say it didnt happen.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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I grew up in a very strict Christian environment. I have found that by becoming "educated" means opening up your mind to other ideas.

I do believe in God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, etc. however, I can't help but ask, is religion just a way to control people? I believe it is.

I have heard people say that Church or religion is for weak people (and I agree to some extent, as I don't believe I have to go to church every week to be a good person/christian).

As an adult on my own, when looking for a Church for myself, I find the people to be distant, uncaring, just there to be seen as "a good christian". And to make matters worse, every church I visited just wanted my money.

Back to the subject of disinformation, of course the Church (Vatican) would cover-up or deny that Jesus had a wife or child, as that would diminish the importance of the Church. It only makes perfect sense.

So, to keep people "in control", and preserve the religion, Jesus has to be an unmarried man (son of God of course), who sacrificed his life to save humanity.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Does the BIBLE ever speak of the relationship between Jesus and Mary M.
Of course, however saint it does not mention ALL.


Is it supposed to? I mean, people complain as is about all the detail that isn't relevant to their lives personally. I never heard God say, "While on earth, you will know all." That'd make life a fraekin' waste of time, wouldn't it?


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
You know that for it has been interpreted and changed for over 2000 years.


I know the New International Version was taken from original Hebrew and Greek texts and translated by over 200+ scholars. Do you know how hard it is to get 200+ life-long students to agree on something?


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
If you can show me a passage where it specifically says Jesus and Mary M. were not ever married I will agree with you. However, I do not think you will find such passage.


There is no passage about them being unmarried. There is no passage to them being married. Why does anyone have to ASSUME anything? I don't know you're not from the Venus, therefore you probably are?
Logic my friend, logic. One can either study what is written or study that which is not written, but those who study what is not written is just chasing their tail.

Pray, train, study.
God bless.


[edit on 28-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 09:58 PM
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I don't know you're not from the Venus, therefore you probably are? Logic my friend, logic. One can either study what is written or study that which is not written, but those who study what is not written is just chasing their tail.


Well said


Its likely that now days more people read the lies that are written about christianity then actually read the bible. This is how stuff like this gets this way. DaVinci code propagated this one didnt it?





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