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posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Btw, what is needed for a lock on on a LO aircraft or regular aircraft?
distance, alltitute, speed and what more?
and how can you get each part of that info? as You said Intergurl, the radar system dont provide enough info for the SAM's to get a lock on!




posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by 187onu
Btw, what is needed for a lock on on a LO aircraft or regular aircraft?
distance, alltitute, speed and what more?
and how can you get each part of that info? as You said Intergurl, the radar system dont provide enough info for the SAM's to get a lock on!

I'm no expert but I'll take a shot at this... (pun intended)

Air defense/fire-control tracking radar detect and determine the position (range & altitude), course, and speed of airborne targets. Once lockup occurs the fire control radar (FCR) checks every sweep for any doppler shifts - If it sees it, tracking is a no-brainer. If the FCR doesn't see the target, it may drop lock.

You asked, "and how can you get each part of that info?"

If I understand your question, it sort of depends on what kind of air defense radar missile system you have, I can think of at least 3 variations:

1. passive guidance (ex.: AIM-7 Sparrow)
Passive guidance, also known as "semi active radar homing" (SARH) guided missiles, these missiles home in on reflected continuous-wave signals from the Fire Control Radar.

2. active onboard guidance (ex.: AIM-120 AMRAAM/HUMRAAM)
Sometimes referred to as "fire and forget", these missiles contain their own complete radar tracking system. The launching platform keeps the target "lit" until the missile's radar fires up - then the launching platform can turn it's attention elsewhere.

3. terminal homing (ex.: Patriot w/ AN/MPQ-53)
This type of system receives guidance instructions from the ground base, the missile itself is acting on instructions from the fire control rather than following a radar reflection.

Natalie~


[edit on 30-4-2005 by intelgurl]



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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posted by 187onu
Btw, what is needed for a lock on on a LO aircraft or regular aircraft?
distance, alltitute, speed and what more?
and how can you get each part of that info? as You said Intergurl, the radar system dont provide enough info for the SAM's to get a lock on!


In this and the other thread you started, you are after quite a bit of info about SAMs and shooting down LO aircraft. Your not working for Bin Laden are you?



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 12:25 AM
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You've got it Intelligurl. You need altitude, bearing, course, speed, and pitch. You need to know the current and previous positions in three dimensions, and you need the ability to predict future positions based on passed ones.

Most passive radars will give you a bearing only. You'll know something out there is transmitting and you know the direction the transmissions are coming from. That's not good enough for fire control.

The Navy SM-2 and SM-3 use terminal homing. The terminal homing phase of the missile's flight is only a few seconds. That gives you two distinct advantages- you can fire more missiles than you have illuminators (CW FC Radar) and the target usually won't know you've fired on it until terminal homing. When the bogey knows you 'locked on' it's to late to even eject.

Missiles won't follow the target, they'll fly to the predicted intercept point of the target and the missile. When the target moves, the intercept point also moves, so the missile adjusts it's flight path to fly to the new intercept point.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 01:12 AM
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Damn..!!

I din't know the f-22 "Apg/AN-77 whatever" frequency hops!!
Thats a simple anti-detection/anti-jamming solution..
And to think cellphones use similar frequency hopping too!!
Therein lies the origin of the word "cell" in cell-phones..


As you said intel girl in the case of of the AIM 9X sparrow missiles being launched from a stealth aircraft which uses frequency hopping;the frequency hop cycle will have to be known by missile as well..

Fire and forget missiles should be simpler as they need to know the cycle only for the time its own radar kicks in; thereafter it can employ its own cycle logic..

Back to the drawing board for my utopian anti-stealth system!!
But no matter

"I'll be bach" !!

Ta da daa DAAA!!



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:57 AM
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Your not working for Bin Laden are you?


NO, i just drink coffie with the man.





I din't know the f-22 "Apg/AN-77 whatever" frequency hops!!
Thats a simple anti-detection/anti-jamming solution..
And to think cellphones use similar frequency hopping too!!
Therein lies the origin of the word "cell" in cell-phones..

As you said intel girl in the case of of the AIM 9X sparrow missiles being launched from a stealth aircraft which uses frequency hopping;the frequency hop cycle will have to be known by missile as well..

Fire and forget missiles should be simpler as they need to know the cycle only for the time its own radar kicks in; thereafter it can employ its own cycle logic..


What the hell are you talking about??



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by intelgurl
I'm no expert but I'll take a shot at this... (pun intended)

Not an expert? LOL!
You sound like one to me! I've "been there, done that" and your educatin' me!



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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What the hell are you talking about??


He is talking about this.


The AN/APG-77 radar is an active-element, electronically scanned (that is, it does not move) array that features a separate transmitter and receiver for each of the antenna's several thousand, finger-sized radiating elements. Most of the mechanical parts common to other radars have been eliminated, thus making the radar more reliable. This type of antenna, which is integrated both physically and electromagnetically with the airframe, provides the frequency agility, low radar cross-section, and wide bandwidth necessary to support the F-22's air dominance mission. The radar is key to the F-22's integrated avionics and sensor capabilities. It will provide pilots with detailed information about multiple threats before the adversary's radar ever detects the F-22.

The APG-77 radar offers significant advantages over previous combat radars. Among its most attractive benefits is the integration of agile beam steering. This feature allows a single APG-77 radar to carry out multiple functions, such as searching, tracking, and engaging targets simultaneously. Agile beam steering also enables the radar to concurrently search multiple portions of airspace, while allowing continued tracking of priority targets.

The Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) capability of the radar defeats conventional RWR/ESM systems. The AN/APG-77 radar is capable of performing an active radar search on RWR/ESM equipped fighter aircraft without the target knowing he is being illuminated. Unlike conventional radars which emit high energy pulses in a narrow frequency band, the AN/APG-77 emits low energy pulses over a wide frequency band using a technique called spread spectrum transmission. When multiple echoes are returned, the radar's signal processor combines the signals. The amount of energy reflected back to the target is about the same as a conventional radar, but because each LPI pulse has considerably less amount of energy and may not fit normal modulation patterns, the target will have a difficult time detecting the F-22.


Edit-For some reason I cant name my link but it works now.

www.globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 1-5-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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link doesn't work...



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 02:07 AM
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Ah but he last para of his quote explains it all..



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 04:41 AM
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what does this mean?

RWR
ESM



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by 187onu
what does this mean?

RWR
ESM



RWR - Radar Warning Reciever; detects incoming radar signals
ESM - electronic support measures; a passive detection system that provides ranging and direction of potential threats, and id's threatening RF emissions.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Btw Intergurl, by using multiple radars or SAMs, you also make it harder for the plane to fly through because of its RCS right?
or did you mean that the LO plane will reflect its signals/waves eventually to "a" radar system or SAM??

How does it work exactly?



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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187onu,
How much are you getting paid to gather all this information? And while your at it, who is paying you to solicit and collect this information?

All of the information you seek is readily availble via Google searches, if you are persistant enough. Are you hoping that someone will "add" a little more to their answers?

Or are you just pulling the wool over your supervisors' eyes, and telling them that the info you troll from this site is the result of your own work?






posted on May, 2 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Why do you people assume that I work for someone or get payed for all this? I mean, someone even thought I was working for Bin Laden!

And as i said before, google has been a pain in the ass and doesn't give me the info I need, Intergurl on the other hand and many others DO help me!

i dont see what the problems is??


and btw, on google you need to type the right thing, you cant just type a quesiton and get an answere


[edit on 2-5-2005 by 187onu]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by 187onu
Btw Intergurl, by using multiple radars or SAMs, you also make it harder for the plane to fly through because of its RCS right?
or did you mean that the LO plane will reflect its signals/waves eventually to "a" radar system or SAM??

How does it work exactly?


I think you are asking how multistatic radar and RAS (Radar absorbent structure) interact.
Multistatic systems have the radar transmitter in one location and 1 or more recievers placed in carefully calculated locations in order to pick up the signals that are reflected away from the source by the RAS.

In response to the other issues regarding this thread - nothing 187onu has been told thus far here has been classified information. We may not know why 187onu is making these inquiries, but I don't see anything wrong with sharing open source, non classifed information with him. If you don't like it, or are suspicious of it just don't post.

Natalie~



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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II want to second Intelgurls sentiment here. This subject is fascinating regardless of your motives. Its kind of silly to assume 187onu is up to something. if that’s the case, we are ALL in trouble for some of the things we talk about here.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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No, Intergurl what i ment was that if you put alot of SAMs or w/e near each other, you also make it harder for the plane to fly through because of the RCS will be detected if he flies to close to one of the SAMs, capish?

someone posted a system that uses 48 SAMs and some other stuff!! (forgot the name)

anyway dont worry about little ol' me, America has bigger problems
!!!



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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Are you talking about like a "wall" of SAM's and radars lined up?





West Point, Out.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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of course there is one problem with radars. they can be taken out by High Speed Anti Radiation missles. so you don't want to be having your radar on very long






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