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Eat Meat and Die!

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posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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Hmm the canines could be the first steps of evolution needed to be able to fully become meat eaters
Our brains are our hunting tools we dont need to best fast, strong or have any claws, a hunting rifle is pretty much all we need to hunt




posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Humans do NOT have true canines like carnivors. They are canine in name only.

Do some reading, here is a start:

www.goveg.com...

www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk...

[edit on 28/4/2005 by ANOK]


Anok, I hate to say this, but just like the last articles you posted, you have posted completely worthless links for those who look to gather facts. The first website is owned by PETA, who is run by Ingrid Newkirk, a woman who has been quoted of saying such things as "If animal testing cured AIDS, I wouldn't want a cure," and other completely ignorant statements, not to mention arguing that owning a pet is animal abuse. PETA is also responsible for promoting and funding acts of terrorism through groups such as the Animal Liberation Front, and Earth Liberation Front, and is currently at risk of losing it's non-profit status because of these illegal dealings.

The second link references an article that was originally posted on a website that openly supports PETA, and once again, is equally as slanted.

Perhaps if you want to further your position, you could try posting links from reputable medical sources such as NIH, CDC, etc. I assure you, you will find cautionary articles on there about the hazards of excessive meat consumption, yet I promise, you will find nothing that will state that humans are not designed to eat meat.

Try again, thank you for playing.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Humans are meant to eat meat, and our "canines, are but "proto-cannines" intended for an evolution towards meat eating. I just don't think humans are not meant to eat meat in the amounts that they do now. Once or twice a month (flesh, not milk, cheese, eggs, etc) is more than enough.

I mentioned it before, and I don't want to try to turn this into a cooking forum, but I am a former chef, and I do know the reasons behind the preparations.

Marinating meat in things such as vinegar, lemon, alchohol, over time (which is what a marinade is) breaks down the muscular tissue so that it is easier for our stomachs to digest.You can find this in all sorts of marinades around the world. Even salt & sugar breaks down the flesh to make it easier to digest.The Romans ate rotten stuffed doormice. our stomachs do not contain the enzymes nec to digest raw flesh. So we eat it partially decayed (marinaded), or raw like sushi, which is always accompanied by alchohol.

Most reasons for apperatiffs
dictionary.reference.com...
were not only to stimulate the appetite, but the alchohol also helps to digest the flesh being consumed presumably later......

Just something to think about.
[edited for spelling]



[edit on 28-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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OK, so response to my post show people are going to believe what they want to believe. What else is new? there will always be "expert" findings on either side of the coin.

But honestly what prompted me to stop eating meat was animal cruelty, AKA "factory farms."

[edit on 4/30/2005 by dollmonster]



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Animal protein is needed to be healthy and mentally alert, rather than dopey-minded and docile.

Eat meat and live longer! Eat meat and think clearer!


You are refering to of course, vitamin B-12, which only exists in sufficent quantities in meat. Herbivores don't require or consume it, but then again, their brains are underdeveloped, with the exception of Elephants and gorillas, just about every herbivore you see has lower logic and reason skills.

The information at the begining of this thread is very flawed and non-factual. First off, we are omnivores, and prime hunters, not scavengers, thus, road kill does not make us salivate, however, the thought of fresh meat does make me drool, especially grilled with garlic.

There are so many indications that humans are built for meat consumption.

1. Our faces. Binocular vison. Two eyes, facing forward, with three dimensional sight. This development is seen on all major carnivores, and almost non existant in herbivores. Binocular vision is essential for hunting, to judge distances, speed, and size, all things a hunter needs.

2. Powerful stomach acids. Contrary to the information given at the beginning, human stomach acids are very powerful, meant for digesting a variety of things.

3. Our digestive tract is not as long as a true herbivore. Rabbits, cows, sheep, goats, deer, all have extremely long, complex digestive systems for the long slow breakdown of grasses and vegetation. Our digestive tract is right in between, its short compared to pure herbivores, but is slightly longer than carnivores.

4. Upright locomotion. Walking on two legs is a devlopment believed to have evolved for the ourpose of seeing better over tall grasses, as well as traveling longer distances in search of prey.

Evidence shows conclusively that humans have been hunters and meat eaters for at least 400,000 years, judging by cave paintings and things found with ancient bodies. It is believed we have been hunters for a good3 million years. So eating meat is not only built into our code, but is essential for good health, in balance, of course, with vegentables, fruits, and grains.

I have known many vegetarians, not only are they very weak and sickly, but their mental processes to tend to slow and suffer, and they do appear to be more listless and docile. Maybe its that lack of vitamin B-12?



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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OK, so my post has demonstrated one thing clearly. People are going to believe what they want to believe. And naturally there will always be "expert" documentation to support whatever side you choose.

But honestly, the reason I gave up the meat that I undeniably love, was to protest "factory farms" and the extreme animal cruelty going on in them.

Almost everyone has loved a pet at one time or another. Livestock animals have the same feelings as any other animal. They love their young, feel joy, sadness and fear. And please don't forget pain. Have you ever witnessed an animal's scream of terror?

We have laws to protect most animals. Unfortunately our "food" is exempt from them. The reason should be obvious. Profit! If agribusiness is going to pump animals up with growth hormones and antibiotics regardless of the effect to human health, or pollute the environment with huge amounts of waste, I hardly think there going to give a dam about animal rights.

Don't you see that by boycotting mass produced meat you take a stand against all of these issues? If you want to eat meat, of course it's your prerogative. But at least make an effort to stop the insane practices of agribusiness. Buy "free range" and "organic" please!

If you've never seen what goes on in "factory farms" watch this please!

www.petatv.com...

PETA is aggressive to be sure. I call them the "Malcolm X" of the animal rights movement. But sometimes it takes violence's to be noticed, and before there can be change there must be recognition!



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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I'm sorry to interject here, but I can't believe that this thread has lasted for as long as it has. 6 pages is way too long for a debate about whether or not humans are omnivores. Anyone who says otherwise has a very subjective opinion on the matter. I love meat, so do a lot of people, you may not, we aren't vegetarians because you are.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
2. Powerful stomach acids. Contrary to the information given at the beginning, human stomach acids are very powerful, meant for digesting a variety of things.


Everything you said but the above is true. Our stomachs do not contain the nec enzymes to digest RAW flesh. Carnivores (animals) do not cook their food they eat raw flesh. Human ingenuity figured out that cooking, and marinading it made it easier to digest.

Try to replace the amount of meat you eat now with just raw meat for as little as a week, and watch what happens.

We ARE omnivores, not trying to dispute that, but we do not share the same enzymes concentration as most true carnivores.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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I agree that companies need to be humane in the treatment of animals used for food. No sense in making an animal suffer while they are alive.

I'm not so sure that raw meat isn't consumable, provided it is from a healthy disease free source. There will be debates on this, but just as with cooking veggies you destroy nutrients in the cooking process. There are enzymes in raw foods that allow the it to be broken down without external enzymes. At least that is in my study on the matter.

My view on it is, the more untouched the food is, then the more likely it is that the nutritional value remains intact. I'm am not suggesting that we all run out and eat raw steaks, that is up to the individual to decide if this is correct. I haven't made a switch to totally raw or anything, but I find the idea does make some sense.

I think sometimes we get so caught up in germs and stuff we forget that our bodies (not our spirits) are a part of the natural system here on earth. From the things we eat we get enzymes and other nutrients, which can be destroyed in the cooking process. I can tell you that adding an enzyme supplement to my diet has helped with my digestion. Cooking is one of those oddities to humans. What other living creature cooks it's meals at 400 degrees in an oven?

Troy



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 01:22 AM
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People eat raw meat all the time -- carpaccio, steak tartare, sushi, etc....



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Oh yeah - I am a carnivore. I might get mad cow - ask Soficrow about that - but hey, I'm gonna go anyway, so I may as well enjoy it. 16oz. NY Strip, rare - OH BABY! Man is an omnivore - meant to eat both veggies AND MEAT....
PETA
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[edit on 5/1/2005 by superdude]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
People eat raw meat all the time -- carpaccio, steak tartare, sushi, etc....


Yeah as do I, I love Sushi, and when I ate pork proccutio was my fav, but you still have to drink Alcohol, and eat other things to help digest it, besides it is still your saffest bet for gettin intestinal worms. :0)

.....My point is; If one were to change nothing else in their diet, EXCEPT the cooking of the amount of meat that they ate.......They would still be sick as f**k within a week.Not meaning eating NOTHING but raw meat. I just mean substitute whatever meat you eat now with meals, (which I assume is usually cooked) with raw meat.

Try it if you don't believe me.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Everything you said but the above is true. Our stomachs do not contain the nec enzymes to digest RAW flesh. Carnivores (animals) do not cook their food they eat raw flesh. Human ingenuity figured out that cooking, and marinading it made it easier to digest.

Try to replace the amount of meat you eat now with just raw meat for as little as a week, and watch what happens.

We ARE omnivores, not trying to dispute that, but we do not share the same enzymes concentration as most true carnivores.


Actually, many humans do. There are many primitive societies in the world that do still eat raw meat. They eat the meat almost right after they have killed it. So while perhaps people in western cultures, who have been eating cooked meat for generations might have somewhat weaker stomach acids, there are other people in other cultures who eat a good amount of raw meat, and they do not get sick or have trouble digesting it.

As far as marinating goes, I eat meat that is not marinated quite frequently and have no problems. Many cultures eat it without marinades as well. Marinating meat is not required to eat it, I dont know where people get that from. Marinating it just makes it very tasty.

As far as health goes, eating meat everyday, three meals a day, is not good for you. Thats excess. And that goes for many different types of food. But all this nonsense that completely wiping out meat from your diet is going to make you live a longer and healthier life is nonsense. I have lost faith in most medical studies anyway, and instead, look to real life. My great grandmother, who was a farmer her whole life, ate meat practically every day and lived to be 96, and during those last years she was still sharp mentally and physically. They key is balance and moderation. She ate quite a bit of meat. She also ate alot of fresh veggies, and did not sit on her butt and watch Tv and get fat, but was often zipping around her farm, keeping active and doing her chores.

She is by no means an exceptional case. Most of the people anywhere that Ive met who are past their 80's and in good health. Im yet to meet a vegetarian who was that old, though Im sure there are a few. Eating meat doesn't shorten your lifespan or reduce quality of life. What makes one healthy and live longer is an active life, moderation and enjoyment in all things, and generally, a positive, low stress lifestyle.

If people dont want to eat dead animals, then don't. But perhaps its that lack of meat-vitamins that makes veggies think that somehow, we are going to be swayed by their arguements. The only arguements I support is of course, how the animals are fed and raised. I believe cows should not be kept in factory like setting and fed grain, but instead should be allowed to eat grass. Natural free range cow meat does taste better, Ive noticed, perhaps because there is less fat and gristle on them, and more meat. but I certainly do not wish to end raising food animals period, just change how the animals are raised and fed.

Cows are prey animals, and we are hunters. Cows exist to be eaten by predators, and we are those predators.

By the way, I have both hunted and killed animals I have eaten, from rattlesnakes to deer, so yes, i have actually killed an animal and eaten it, and I do not feel bad about it, since I didnt cause the animals in question to suffer by giving them a quick shot to the head.

I still dont see any credible, reliable evidence that humans are meant to be vegetarians, or that eating meat in moderation will kill you more than other things will. We all die some day, and with the time we have, we should enjoy ourselves by eating good food and drinking good drinks.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 01:47 AM
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What's with this argument that meat tastes wonderfully good??? Meat does'nt taste much... you have to prepare it with specific condiments or spices for it to be good tasting. Most meats, even barbecued, don't have so much of a great taste when cooked without HP, Worcestershire, chili and other kinds of sauces... they actually are unpleasant to taste. But carrots? Tomatoes? Apples? Scallops? garlic? All these are EXPLODING with taste!

Also, to the pro-carnivore here, I'm asking these 2 questions...

Can you survive by eating ONLY meat in your life? (No, that's impossible. Meat only has a few mere nutriments (mainly proteins and fat) that cannot insure survival of the body by themselves)

Can somebody survive an whole life without eating anykind of meat??? (Yes, absolutely, as there are millions of vegetarians on this planet who do so.)

Since I began to reduce my consumption of meat last fall, in favor of mostly vegetarian meals, I observed these changes:

My body became more muscular with the regular bicyle exercise;
my (uhms) intestine gas problems disappeared;
my digestive activity has been significantly improving;
no diseases at all! (I usually catch 3-5 colds and flus every winter, but that last winter... NOTHING!)

Having changed from meat to TVP (textured vegetable protein) to cook myself some meat-needy things such as chilis, tacos and suvlakis, I don't feel any necessity anymore to eat meat. TVP has a lot more nutriments than meats and has no cholesterol at all.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
What's with this argument that meat tastes wonderfully good??? Meat does'nt taste much... you have to prepare it with specific condiments or spices for it to be good tasting. Most meats, even barbecued, don't have so much of a great taste when cooked without HP, Worcestershire, chili and other kinds of sauces... they actually are unpleasant to taste. But carrots? Tomatoes? Apples? Scallops? garlic? All these are EXPLODING with taste!

Also, to the pro-carnivore here, I'm asking these 2 questions...

Can you survive by eating ONLY meat in your life? (No, that's impossible. Meat only has a few mere nutriments (mainly proteins and fat) that cannot insure survival of the body by themselves)

Can somebody survive an whole life without eating anykind of meat??? (Yes, absolutely, as there are millions of vegetarians on this planet who do so.)

Since I began to reduce my consumption of meat last fall, in favor of mostly vegetarian meals, I observed these changes:

My body became more muscular with the regular bicyle exercise;
my (uhms) intestine gas problems disappeared;
my digestive activity has been significantly improving;
no diseases at all! (I usually catch 3-5 colds and flus every winter, but that last winter... NOTHING!)

Having changed from meat to TVP (textured vegetable protein) to cook myself some meat-needy things such as chilis, tacos and suvlakis, I don't feel any necessity anymore to eat meat. TVP has a lot more nutriments than meats and has no cholesterol at all.

Incorrect on two accounts. You can survive eating almost nothing but meat. The eskimos, who live in conditions where veggies and fruits are nonexistant through most of the year, do quite well. You can survive on eating nothing but meat, just like you can survive on nothing but vegetables. Niether is very good for your health, but you wont die immediately.

And I have lived on a vegetarian diet before, not by choice, more by circumstance, and I certainly did not feel any better, if anything, i felt alot more exhaustion, and ended up aniemic.

As far as Textured vegetable protein goes, I got news for you. Soy is not good for your health, especially when eaten in the amounts of meat substitute that its consumed in. They are finding more and more that soy and other textured vegetable proteins cause other health problems. And its worth mentioning that many people are allergic to soy and nuts, many who often develop that allergy.

www.mayanmajix.com...

If things like pure egetable diets were so good for you, why do people develop allergies to nuts and beans?

Vegetariansim certainly doesn;t make everyone healthy, and the risks of such a diet outweigh the benefits to me. My cholesterol is extremely low, as is my blood pressure, and I eat red meat twice a week.

I did notice benefits when I removed vegtable proteins from my diet, such as are used in many processed and even natural foods. Once I omitted so much soy, I found certain other health problems went away.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And I have lived on a vegetarian diet before, and I certainly did not feel any better, if anything, i felt alot more exhaustion, and ended up anemic.

Vegetariansim certainly doesn't make everyone healthy, and the risks of such a diet outweigh the benefits to me. My cholesterol is extremely low, as is my blood pressure.

Once I omitted soy, I found certain other health problems went away.


Hey Skadi, you're alot like me! (except for a few points like eating snake. Hehe.) I noticed too that at least in my family tree, people who have eaten like you & me live long & healthy close to the 100 range in age.

On a side note, I notice males raised on soy tend to have stunted development in a key area of their anatomy if you know what I mean (I'm not kidding). Some claim the hormonal effect of soy is minimal. Yeah, right. LOL.

Too bad you couldn't receive all my 3 votes for this month.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by dollmonster
When you see dead animals on the side of the road, are you tempted to stop for a snack?

I eat meat, not carrion.



Does the sight of a dead bird make you salivate?


Come by my house at Thanksgiving.



Do you daydream about killing cows with your bare hands and eating them raw?


I dreamed I was having a barbeque the other day, does that count?


Hoooboy, thanks. I needed that



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Skadi, allergies are psychosomatic. There's nothing in peanuts, as an example, no toxins or acids which can make the digestive system freak out enough for killing somebody, yet there are people that die from eating just a few peanuts. Same thing goes for the millions of asian people that are allergic to animal milk... they only can drink soy and rice milk, while thwere is nothing poisonous or dangerous in milk (aside from the high level of cholesterol and the way that the fat is not being digested by the system, which causes problems of overweight and cardio-vascular insufficience).

As for the Inuks, they DO eat vegetables, adn they were also before they could "benefit" fro the western civilisation". although not in the same proportions than people do in warmer areas of the planet. They eat a lot of lichen -a mossy plant which grows everywhere in the thundra's soil- and berries, which they pile up during the warm season for the winter. Also, disinformation has let us westerners to believe taht Inuks have always lived in the polar circle, which is FALSE. The Inuk have been pushed away in the north by the Canadian government in the 19th and 20th century. Before the White man arrived, there were no people living on the Baffin island or any other islands in the Great North. Inuks used to live lower into the northern areas of Canada. It is a fact known among Native people here, but something that the authorities have been lying on for decades.

That webpage you have posted a link to is interesting, but it plainly presents soy proteins as being a creation of the American food industry, which is blatantly false. Soy products have been around in Eastern Asia, and South-East Asia for centuries. WHile it is true that processed food, as well as beef and chicken, that is produced by the industry in North America is greatly unhealthy, there IS organic soy protein and other soy products on the market. It's just that the TVP that you might find at the grocery store or in public schools will be a product of chemically questionable soy products made by huge corporate laboratories. THis website suggest that there is somekind of conspiracy form the industry and the CIA involving promoting soy as the good food, and beef as the bad food... Well, this is kinda nonsense since the beef industry is the one that generates hundreds of billions in the US and is the most commericalized everywhere (are Big Macs made with soy?)... so if there's a conspiracy, seems like it's a loser one...

Soy is far from being the basis of vegetarian cuisine. Vegetables and beans are.

[edit on 3/5/05 by Echtelion]

[edit on 3/5/05 by Echtelion]



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Give me a nice juicy steak or double cheese burger over a tofu loaf or garden burger.

I usta have a friend that said he would eat nothing that had a face, yet on special occassions he loved grilled sea bass.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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I've seen a vegetarian bodybuilder on the web. Big fella.

Do we have to have meat for optimum health, I don't know for sure. I think it's all about getting the vitamins, minerals, enzymes, protien, fat etc. your body needs, and not taking in things that are destructive to your body. There are some nutrients that you potentially can only get from meat? Now, with proper suplementation I guess you could get these nutrients.

Our bodies are quite adaptable so I think you can do a variety of different diets and still be fine. I wish our cars were this forgiving with fuel.


Troy



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