Leading American Evangelicals Caught on Secret Tape Conspiring Against US Government

All I can say is that this is an example of people attempting to control their govenment, the very idea of what the US is founded upon. This same tactic has been used time and time again but both liberal and conservative groups and each time its justified because it is legal. What we are seeing is the backlash against the judiciary because in recent years they have upgraded their power from ruling on law to making law. Something they were never to do because law is to be enacted by legislation. That means representatives elected by their constituents bring the concerns of said constituents to light and enact law based on the will of the people in accordance with the constitution that governs. I think this is an example of the power of the people being exerted against those who have given themselves power that was never granted them.

If this were the ACLU or the Sierra Club trying to unseat conservative justices, I dare say you would have a different slant on it. And in fact, I don't think they trying as much to unseat liberal judges aas they are trying to block the insane fillabuster by the liberals against the new nominees. All of Clinton's nominees were allowed a vote if I remember correctly. Why not allow them a vote? If one's position is so weak it cannot stand debate, why hold such a losing position to begin with?

Dobson concluded: "We've got a right to hold them accountable for what happens here."

Yes, and so do we. I voted for Bush. In principle I agree with a lot of the things he ran on, but I don't see those things happening. Instead I see a lot of things happening that I don't like at all like these religous nuts trying to impose their hypocritical moral value ruleset on the rest of us.

There are many like me I think. All through the 90's, Republicans pointed at Billary (rightly. the Clintons are scum) and wailed about "Oh, just give us a chance. We'll get some good stuff done if you just give us the power". Well, we gave them what they asked for and they are pissing the chance away. They are dropping the ball and we will make our displeasure known in 2008. At this point, unless they pull some really positive stuff out of their butts and make it work between now and then, no republican is getting my vote next time.

The farther the Republican party crawls into bed with these #%$@! religous zealots, the more people they drive away. I guess it's part of the religious delusion that they are unable or unwilling to see this. If the likes of Tom Delay turn out to be an example of where this is all going, they may have not only driven me away, but probably have created opposition.

give us some examples of "laws" the the judges have written?

Thats just it, they don't actually write laws, they use their rulings to enact new versions of laws with no real reference at all. Google "legislating from the bench". I'm home on dail-up right now and it would take all day at this speed to do your research for you. Sorry, I made a passing comment with my opinion only in this subject. I'm not really tied to it emotionally or for that matter care all that much whether anyone shares my opinion. There is ample literature available for anyone interested. To be honest when I read about ti, my bloodpressure goes through the roof so I try to avoid anything tied to the liberal judiciary. It just healthier.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by astrocreep]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by RANT
I think Jesus was well into his 30's before realizing
He was the physical manifestation of God

He died at 33 - which isn't 'well into his 30's'.

A middle aged man can dream can't he? I'm still working on making my retro-"prophecy" fit the particulars, but I can't exactly wait around 300 years for my own Constantine to set things right, can I? Lot's to do in my Father's work. Busy, busy, busy.

He knew he was God well before that. The OFFICIAL
Catholic belief is that He was ALWAYS aware of who
He was. Other more radical elements say he gradually
became aware of it. Some moderates say he was aware
by age 12 (see the Finding of Christ in the Temple story).

See the plot of "Joe Dirt."

Plot Summary for Joe Dirt (2001):
Joe Dirt is a janitor with a mullet hairdo, acid-washed jeans and a dream to find the parents that he lost at the Grand Canyon when he was a belligerent, trailer park-raised eight-year-old. Now, blasting Van Halen in his jacked-up economy car, the irrepressibly optimistic Joe hits the road alone in search of his folks. As his wandering, misguided search takes him from one hilarious misadventure to another, Joe finds his way to Los Angeles, where a shock-jock brings Joe on his radio show to insult him. But as Joe's life story unfolds, jeers turn to cheers, and an entire captivated city tunes in to hear the adventures of Joe Dirt.

Somebody's gonna get sued!

well.....I'm running on a cheap 9.95 internet special, really ain't got time either.

I did google it, and well, ran across something about school funding.

NY has a wonderful story on this one. our courts just ordered the state to hand NY City I believe, more money than they usually have in their budget for all of NY State schools...since their school system is so delapidated...

but, well, I don't see that as a fault of the judges...
ya see....while the state keeps cutting the funding for our schools (our school system is planning on increasing our property tax by over 50% and another one has eliminated all of their sports programs.) well they have no qualms in borrowing an outrageous amount and giving it to the NY Jets for their stadium!!

the laws say their should be equal education for all...if the courts decide that this law isn't being followed, shouldn't they have the right to order the lawmakers to fix the problem? of course, they could have degraded all of the schools to the City's level I suspose, if they had wished.

Delay and Freak mean Frist, under their "people of faith" and "conservatism" are nothing than power hungry and money mongers.

They are doing a good job on fooling the people. Religion in the hands of crocks can be a powerful weapon.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by RANT
Though I do believe jake1997 was responding to dawnstar...

Originally posted by Valhall
You can't judge who is a christian and who is not. That's something between them and God.

This is correct.

And why the self appointed Judges of Judges in this topic (Dosbon and Perkins) happen to also be the main one's I see defining a "good Christian" from a "bad Christian" as well as what constitutes a family and what does not, along with a whole host of other controversial edicts on high.

As for whether or not I'm a Christian, I'm far too young to be making those sort of decisions. I think Jesus was well into his 30's before realizing He was the physical manifestation of God, so I'm still holding out for a better offer than "follower."

The opening premise is wrong.
We are told that we will know them by their fruits.
You guys are very good at exposing the fruits of the RCC.
The fruits of the RCC are the inquisition, the councils you keep mentioning that come up with all kinds of nonbiblical stuff, the crusades, anti-semitism...

Know them by their fruits. Now, the very idea that you would take vallhallas words over the words of the bible to decide the matter of christianity is telling of the problem.
Christians did NOT do those things you are accrediting to them.

Pope JP2 was a false prophet. He taught lies in the name of Christ.
Every pope before that was the same. Constintine was a heretic. His fruits are rotten. Let the bible be the guide and you will see that the RCC being called 'christian' is itself, a conspiracy.

In belowtopsecret religion forum I posted a comparison of the catholic church and the religon of Rome, Greece, Persia, Babylon, Egypt, Assyria.
those 6 are the same, and rome is the modern version.

For those of you who dont know ANYTHING about the bible, that will be too advanced for you.

the fruits of the spirit:

love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness (meekness, humility) and self-control

so, where does the "conservative Christians" in our government fit into these?

Originally posted by dawnstar
the fruits of the spirit:

love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness (meekness, humility) and self-control

so, where does the "conservative Christians" in our government fit into these?

OH!
Is that what this topic is about???

Hang on one... I have to switch gears

This is turning ugly, now the full blown up fundamentalist agenda is going to push their power to the limit.

The Democrats will do a stand up.

Religious groups that are not under the Tom DeLay and Frist supporters are asking Frist to back off, using religious propaganda to pursue his agenda is not the right thing to do in politics.

I think our country is starting to separate since the Terri case in Florida, the fundamentalist from the Christian Conservatives.

People the next few days are worth to keep and eye on specially tomorrow Frist, Freak show.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
I think our country is starting to separate since the Terri case in Florida, the fundamentalist from the Christian Conservatives.

I think we'll see that the fundimentalists have stepped in it on this issue and more eyes will open to the rest of the fanatical far right's intrusive agenda. One thing that almost everyone shares is the desire to have some control (if possible) over how and under what circumstances their life will end.

Originally posted by jake1997
The fruits of the RCC ... the councils you keep mentioning that come up with all kinds of nonbiblical stuff

The council that we keep mentioning is the council that put the
bible together. So it indeed did come up with 'biblical stuff'.
Hell .. it came up with THE BIBLE. And it was a CATHOLIC
council there Jake. CATHOLIC. Not Baptist. Not Pentacostal.
Not Mormon. It was CATHOLIC. The Catholics put the bible
together. Like it or not. The bible is from it's birth - CATHOLIC.
(with Jewish grandparents)

Let the bible be the guide and you will see that the RCC being called 'christian' is itself, a conspiracy. For those of you who dont
know ANYTHING about the bible, that will be too advanced for you.

Looks like you'd better crack open your bible - the one that the
CATHOLIC church put together and take a long look. No where
in Sacred Scripture does it say 'bible alone'. No where. The
Sola Scriptura notion was invented by Martin Luther and he
added those words to the faith, at the same time he dismantled
the bible and reworked it to fit his version of 'truth'.

All through the bible you will find that it says to hang on to
sacred traditions and oral teachings that are handed down.
All through the bible it says that Christ taught much more than
what is written and that if the apostles had written down
everything He had taught then there wouldn't be enough
books in the world to hold all the teachings.

To use your own words - perhaps this truth is too advanced
for you. There are truths outside of the bible, and the bible
confirms it. If you need someone to hand hold you through
this realization I'm sure we there are more than a few people
here who would be able to do so .. me included. We have
the scripture passages all set and standing by to assist you
with your assimulation of the truth of what is written in the
bible - that the bible doesn't contain all truth.

BTW - try cracking open the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It's a much better tool to learn about what Catholics believe ...
better than the Jack Chick tracts and 'ministers' that spew
anti-anyone-but-us venom.

www.catholic.com...

[edit on 4/24/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by astrocreep
this is an example of people attempting to control their govenment,
the very idea of what the US is founded upon.

If this were the ACLU or the Sierra Club trying to unseat conservative justices, I dare say you would have a different slant on it.

I agree with you. It's just that fundamentalists trying to change the
government are a scary bunch.

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by dawnstar
the fruits of the spirit:

love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness (meekness, humility) and self-control

so, where does the "conservative Christians" in our government fit into these?

OH!
Is that what this topic is about???

Hang on one... I have to switch gears

Maybe I don't get what you are trying to tell us, don't know.

But...
I know Bush isn't a chatholic, I believe he's a methodist I believe . Not sure of Delay, but I believe Frist is protestant...although it might be Delay. And, at least a few of the judges that they are complaining about are baptists. Don't see where the catholic church fits into into it, unless you are referring to it in a historical perspective. In which case, you might be raising some good points. The witches of the inquistion have alot in common with those liberals, the activist judges, welfare moms, deadbeat dads, the "lazy poor people" who are complaining there are no decents jobs and whomever else is being griped about now days......they are the scapegoats to blame our problems on, to avoid the fact that we don't know how to fix them, and really don't want to.

Christ told us a little devil come into the field and planted a bunch of weeds in HIS crops. And that if we tried to pull them out, we would also kill much of the crop. SO there is wheat and there's weeds in all of the churches, not just ONE DENOMOINATION. Just like there were very few witches that were burned along with alot of innocent christians long ago.

If you want my opinion, the spirit of the antichrist has been rising it's head for awhile, first in the Churches, then in our government and the world. He takes the words of God, twists them to fit his needs, plays on the weaknesses of people- offering wealth and power or a feeling of superiority. and then commences to get his followers to believe that God would like them to do all these horrible things in his name...and well, today's Christians face the fruit of his labor often by having others bring up the Crusades, the inquisition. ect... Unless, the Churches want to add to that dark heritage they have gathered throughout their history, well, they should sincerely pray to their God for understanding and reject this path. It doesn't lead to God.

By the way, Before the Catholic Church established the order of the Nuns, or whatever you wish to call it. The women, as well as the men, were basically set on their life's path at birth. They weren't taught how to read or write, unless the occupation of their father was one that would require them to read and write.....if the father relied on the mother's ability to read and write, ya the daughters might be taught, like in the case of royalty. The Church, with all their errors, did offer the people a way out of the class system of the day and opened up new oportunities....no longer was being a baby maker and servant the only option for women! They did do some good.

[edit on 24-4-2005 by dawnstar]

"Just like there were very few witches that were burned along with alot of innocent christians long ago." Dawnstar.

The witches were innoccent to. Unless you count being the first doctors, nurses, pharmacists, psychiatrists, and first scienctists evil, which the church did, why they killed them. For the church is evil then, it is evil now. Except now it just says raping babies is ok as long as you are 60 years old and wear the cloth. Or that genocide is alright as long as it is us doing it.(Africa will be gone in 20-30 years because of the church, for the smart people bring food, condoms, medicine, vaccines, while the church says "GE food playing god so evil and can't eat it, condoms evil, medicine evil, vaccines evil." so the Africans don't take what help the smart people bring them in fear of sinning and going to hell)

okay....but, mixed in with tose witches, whatever their crime may have been, there are also many "christians", who spoke up against the church's actions, or were just caught up in frenzy. Which is the point that I was trying to make....I agree that there were many herbalists in that group, who were not doing anything that I believe to be wrong. And, to be honest, their main crime was operating a "business" that really wasn't controlled by the right people. Most were women!! But, well, it seems that if you read the old testament, and then the new, and then consider the history since that period....there seems to me, there has been a general improvement in the general understanding of the spiritual laws and the way we treat each other- Growth. What concerns me is that of late, there seems to be a growing movement to turn around and go backwards...
I think that is a big mistake.
weather or not that growth was a result of the Church, I really don't want to debate, since well, I know I can't say for certain that it was...seems to me, the church(at least the leadership) kind of was stubborn every step of the way, although the actual movements really had a strong christian base to them I believe.

And Dobson claims 71 million in ratings from various regional Christian Cable networks with no word on attendance at the various church's simulcasting the feed.

One aspect not discussed at all yet is the tax expempt status of these "religious" organizations and churches or the free telethon fundraiser they had last night on top of the Democrat "hate in." And I'm sure it won't be discussed anytime soon either.

Kind of wished I could have seen it, just to see what they said first hand. Did anyone get to?

Originally posted by dawnstar
Kind of wished I could have seen it, just to see what they said first hand. Did anyone get to?

Look for video feeds on Daystar, the Inspiration Network and World Harvest Television. As I understand it, it was mostly political with the only religious aspect being the claims of persecution.

Though they did get into varying aspects of Leviticus (Homosexuality - Lev. 18:22.), they left some out. Here's what they missed.

Things you can expect to be outlawed soon (if the Christian Right were logically consistent):

Touching the skin of a dead pig (eg: playing football) - Lev. 11:7-8.

Eating shellfish - Lev. 11:10.

Touching a menstruating woman and any furniture or items of clothing that has come in contact with menstruating women - Lev.15:19-21.

Planting two different crops in the same field - Lev. 19:19

Wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (ployester blends not recommended) - Lev. 19:19

Getting one's hair trimmed, especially around the temples - Lev. 19:27.

Approaching the altar of the Lord if you have poor eyesight - Lev. 21:20.

ALWAYS LEGAL (Thank God):

Burning bulls - Lev. 1:9.

Burning people who sleep with their in-laws - Lev. 20:14.

Stoning blasphemers (my favorite passtime) - Lev.24:14

Owning slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations - Lev. 25:44. (Mexicans and Canadians make excellent slaves.)

(from chain mail posted here)