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How much proof do we need before we believe?

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posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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I am often asking myself this question. How much proof do we need before we believe? We have photographs and video that have held up under serious scrutiny, we have eye witness testimony from people who appear to be upstanding citizens and appear to have no reason to fabricate a story. So what would be the one thing or things that would make people believe something? Would we actually need an alien craft to land on the front lawn of the White House before doznes of news outlets?




posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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To actually see one and meet one plus give me a demonstration of their 'advanced' technology. But even then most skeptics would still say its just humans in costumes....



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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While no "proof", I believe there is more than enough "evidence" out there for any logical person to "believe". "Proof" would of course negate the reason for "believing", as it'd then be a fact. And that fact is only going to come out when and if either the government discloses what it knows and has, or when the aliens do. Anything shy of that, and there will still be reason to "doubt" the phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
While no "proof", I believe there is more than enough "evidence" out there for any logical person to "believe". "Proof" would of course negate the reason for "believing", as it'd then be a fact. And that fact is only going to come out when and if either the government discloses what it knows and has, or when the aliens do. Anything shy of that, and there will still be reason to "doubt" the phenomenon.


That was so well put, and in about 200 words less than I could ever do. Way to go Gaz!!!

Peace



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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Before the general public will even consider reviewing the evidence, the ridicule factor needs to be overcome. There are too many ridiculous stories about reptilians and the like for people to take it seriously. They take one look at that and write off the whole subject. Other than that, it would take a landing on the White House Lawn.


Originally posted by Mikomi
To actually see one and meet one plus give me a demonstration of their 'advanced' technology. But even then most skeptics would still say its just humans in costumes....

So by this logic, you need to be taken out to space and see the Earth for yourself in order to believe it is round?



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
While no "proof", I believe there is more than enough "evidence" out there for any logical person to "believe".


Well said.

Unfortunately it will take "the worldwide event" to make everyone aware, the irony is that (in the way I see things) this will be one of the biggest, most carefully planned hoaxes of all time, when it happens.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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All we need is a ufo crash in a crowded city and then let the fireworkds fly



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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All we need is a ufo crash in a crowded city and then let the fireworkds fly


If only that were true. This would only work if it was a truly large craft. Any smaller craft could be easily dismissed away as an experimental drone, etc. They'd probably even quickly whip up some concept drawings, mockup prototypes, etc. to show on the news the next few days, to fully cover up something like that.

Of course, if the craft is the size of a 747, well, that would certainly be a tall order, hehe....



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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when an alian shows up at NASA door step asking to phone home .at that point it would be hard to say they wernt there.
Eather that or when an alian ship is spoted in the take out lane of MC donalds.
Of corse the next door nebier coming over with a plate of mashed Spuds asking if it reminds you of anything probly is more indictive Of a guy with a real hang up then alians.
On a more funny note They could be all around us not even in costume and we wouldent even notice . Disne land , them parks throw out the world . This is where alians go .Proff you say? try getting a guy to were a Goofe costume.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000


Originally posted by Mikomi
To actually see one and meet one plus give me a demonstration of their 'advanced' technology. But even then most skeptics would still say its just humans in costumes....

So by this logic, you need to be taken out to space and see the Earth for yourself in order to believe it is round?


Why yes I do I believe the Earth is flat. Well I do believe aliens exist but there are so many different stories of people claiming different things such as the Lacerta (spelling?) interview for example. So yes I would require the proof I stated to fully know that Aliens do truely exist and how they operate. What is wrong with that logic? Absolutely nothing in my eyes.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000

So by this logic, you need to be taken out to space and see the Earth for yourself in order to believe it is round?


The earth is round?????????!!!!!!!



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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For some and governments (keeping quiet), there's no proof possible less a landing or a civilian reported capture in public light.

For others their here and proof has been following out all over the place!

Dallas



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Mikomi
Well I do believe aliens exist but there are so many different stories of people claiming different things such as the Lacerta (spelling?) interview for example. So yes I would require the proof I stated to fully know that Aliens do truely exist and how they operate. What is wrong with that logic? Absolutely nothing in my eyes.

If you read the beginning of my post, I was referring to the ridiculous claims like the Lacerta Files. IMO, these are so ridiculous, it makes the general public dismiss the entire subject. But if you throw these claims out and continue to look, you will find very credible evidence that the phenomenon is real. Just looking at government documents, you can conclude they have been covering it up. Read the testimony from military witnesses of visual sightings as well as radar returns of real unidentified craft. Look past the fact that the subject has been corrupted by others trying to profit from it, and you can logically conclude that it is real.

But if you do conclude that the phenomenon is real. Then you starting asking more questions like: What are they? Why are they here? What is their agenda? Why don't they interact with us? These are harder to determine, and that's why I'm here on ATS.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Well, i already believe, but to not trust the government when they say stuff doesnt exist, i would need a UFO to land on the White House lawn and come out and say "sup all" then the men in black come and say nothing is there, but thats just me



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by DCFusion
I am often asking myself this question. How much proof do we need before we believe?


What keeps crossing my mind is how many people would "suddenly" realize the authenticity of all the documented evidence IF the president and congress announced that it's true- the aliens are real, and they are really here.

However, as Hal9000 said, then the real questions will have to be answered.

Only, answering those questions is going to expose govt crimes against the aliens and against humanity about the aliens. The govts will never volunteer self-incriminating information like that- they never do.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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While I think it is mathematically possible for alternate life forms to exist in the universe, and even for them to have visited our planet, I find it very difficult to believe that every single occurence of these visits have been covered up by the "government". It just doesn't add up.

Sooner or later there will have to be an "alien" visit that is documented and broadast to the world without government interference before I would believe it, though.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
While no "proof", I believe there is more than enough "evidence" out there for any logical person to "believe". "Proof" would of course negate the reason for "believing", as it'd then be a fact. And that fact is only going to come out when and if either the government discloses what it knows and has, or when the aliens do. Anything shy of that, and there will still be reason to "doubt" the phenomenon.


I disagree proof and evidence are one and the same.There still only excists heresay and stories rather than material evidence,please if l am wrong members here post photo`s of there evidance for all to see.To use the lame excuse the govt or the Aliens thereselves are witholding info is pathetic and frankly as time goes by becomes even less credable.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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I disagree proof and evidence are one and the same.There still only excists heresay and stories rather than material evidence,please if l am wrong members here post photo`s of there evidance for all to see.To use the lame excuse the govt or the Aliens thereselves are witholding info is pathetic and frankly as time goes by becomes even less credable.


In that case, in your view there is no such thing as "theory" based on evidence, only fact. In this case, I am to assume that you feel Einstein's theory of relativity to be just as fanciful as little gray men? After all, it's only a theory based on evidence, not proof. Likewise the theory of Evolution, etc. How about the fact the earth is round? Have you been in space? Have you seen this first hand? No? But you've seen photos of it right? You've seen government confirmation of this. Confirmation of scientists. You've seen only EVIDENCE that the Earth is round, and yet I somehow think you see it as a fact.
Oddly enough, we have that same evidence for UFOs....





I find it very difficult to believe that every single occurence of these visits have been covered up by the "government". It just doesn't add up.


Who's claiming that?

The only cases the government would need to cover up are those involving the military, or those involving physical debris. After closing Bluebook, the PR campaign had pretty much established a "ridicule factor" surrounding the subject, which effectively "covers up" cases not involving the military or physical debris/artifacts.

In the case of the former, it's a simple matter of orders and threat of court martial, and many such government officials and military officers have come forward and stated not only the particulars of their case, but also the fact that there was a coverup. Even the former project heads and members of Project Bluebook, the government's own official investigation, have come forward and stated it's a coverup. Some of which had gone on to become reknowned UFOlogists (such as Hynek and Ruppelt).

In the case of the latter, it's a simple matter of showing up, citing national security, threatening revoking FCC licenses, threatening Jail time, etc. There's even a law on the books against Extra-terrestrial contact, so obviously someone thinks it at least a possibility worthy of legislation...
In many cases, an effective coverup can easily be done days, weeks, months, even years later, of such things.

The government's own ineptness in this coverup can even be their own undoing. Look at Roswell for example. Trying to claim test dummies from a project (High Dive, in the early 50's) that didn't even exist at the time was responsible for reports of aliens? Even in their own report, the photos depict dummies made more than a decade later (in the 60's).



Sooner or later there will have to be an "alien" visit that is documented and broadast to the world without government interference before I would believe it, though.


There have been plenty. And I'm not talking about uncle Jethro seeing lights in the sky while fishing one night. Take the Hill case for example. Betty Hill, while under hypnosis drew a star map that she claims was shown to her as a hologram while aboard the ship. This map not only depicts stars in the correct configuration, but includes some stars that weren't even known at the time (discovered later), and even correctly indicates the color, showing a path between yellow stars (like ours, and including ours). Also, it was from a constellation not even visible in her native hemisphere. How would she have known such information? Astronomers of her time (1961) weren't even aware of such facts.

That's just one example, there are certainly others, credible cases, by reliable witnesses. Physical evidence in the case of radar returns, photos, videos (and in the days before manipulation was easily done), testimony of military officers from sergeants to full fledged generals. Even former commanders in chief, such as former President Carter.


[edit on 22-4-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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I believe a very good response Gazrok. The Dummies occured in /53.

Dallas



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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The tests were done in the early 50's, but the photos included of the dummies, appearing in the Air Force's "Case Closed" report, were of a variety made in the 60's I believe...
(started with a G, name's on the tip of my tongue...)

EDIT: Thanks to Mandalorianwarrior. The model is GARD, pictured in their report. Can read about the model here: (use Control+F then "gard") They also claim Sierra Sam models, etc. (not made till '49, and not used till after that)....


www.ftss.com...


(Common crash dummies)

Would YOU mistake these for aliens???






[edit on 22-4-2005 by Gazrok]



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