End of days[Believers] vs. Atheists.

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posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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hello my friends.

should I as a non-believer be afraid/be aware of the final judgement? can a person who is strong in the faith of God judge me, a free man who lives by different believes sentence me to damnation though all time even though my sentenced soul is of another faith [perhaps none]?... as it is today, is faith a matter of fear and forced behaviour, or a force of good and a common beliefe that man/woman is all together good?

i´ve gone through my wrongs in life and i have made them right by talking to the peeps involved. now, if i'd gone though theese things with a priest - would that have made me pure and 'clean' in the face of st.peter - whoever that is...?




posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by duskboy
i´ve gone through my wrongs in life and i have made them right by talking to the peeps involved. now, if i'd gone though theese things with a priest - would that have made me pure and 'clean' in the face of st.peter - whoever that is...?


The only way to be clean is to accept Christ as Savior. Put faith in His completed work on the cross. He bore your sins upon Himself and took the punishment for them so you would never have too, so trust Him for salvation.

Everyone's eyes are focused on the catholic denomination since the death of the pope and the appointing of a new pope. Christ alone forgives, you don't need a priest.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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duskboy, I find this as a sorta retaliation of the Christian faith. so what are u attacking? Catholics or Protestants? u dont seem to have a very good understand of Christianity to be attacking it anyway. yes, another Godly man can u judge u when u go to be judged after death of course- what yer not getting is that if u live by different beliefs than what God says than your screwed.

if God says "if u dont live a COMPLETELY perfect life, you will burn in hell" than who can argue that? who can say they lived better than mother Teresa and only told one lie and argue with God, u heard what the christian God said, and u CAN NOT argue with him, cause he is God.
doesnt matter what yer God is or what yer belief is, everyone knows u can not argue against God and justify yer ways, cause what God says goes, and weather or not the christian God is God, you are challenging the christian God, so assuming the christian God is God than you either meet his requirements for heaven or burn in hell, there are no exceptions in Gods book for you, dusk boy. I hope u understand, as any rational person can comprehend that if God is here, u obviously cant argue with him.

"i´ve gone through my wrongs in life and i have made them right by talking to the peeps involved." well the christian God never said u had to talk it thru with peeps, so TOUGH!!!



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Not to offend anyone, but the things you do on earth are between You and God alone, noone else matters, no priest no saint no pope can help you.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by Slicky1313
yes, another Godly man can u judge u when u go to be judged after death of course- what yer not getting is that if u live by different beliefs than what God says than your screwed.


sorry, you lost me there - no pun intended.

I'm not against christianity - perod. I want a chistians view regading a non believer going to 'hell' or not.

Cole: why is there so many priest all over the world if they're not needed?

peace.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by duskboy]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by duskboy

Originally posted by Slicky1313
yes, another Godly man can u judge u when u go to be judged after death of course- what yer not getting is that if u live by different beliefs than what God says than your screwed.


sorry, you lost me there - no pun intended.

I'm not against christianity - perod. I want a chistians view regading a non believer going to 'hell' or not.

Cole: why is there so many priest all over the world if they're not needed?

peace.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by duskboy]


They Are needed, to teach the word of God they are there for you to talk to, but talking to them wont keep you out of hell, and they wont get you into heaven, they are but only men, no better then you or i, they just chose a different path.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by duskboy
should I as a non-believer be afraid/be aware of the final judgment?

According to the Bible, yes.


Originally posted by duskboy
can a person who is strong in the faith of God judge me

Don't worry about impressing other people. People have no say so whatsoever in your final outcome. Only you do, and God alone is the judge of your actions and intentions. If you've heard the declaration that God sent his Son to make up for your shortcomings, and reject that, how can you expect to make up for that? You're not only offered a free ride, but it was at the expense of the judge's son. I wouldn't turn it down if I were you.

There's a lot more to Christianity then avoiding Hell. Fire Insurance. That's what I've heard it called before, but God's love is what you should be focusing on. If you want to learn more I suggest you do some reading to see what you believe personally. Start with John, which best demonstrates Jesus' love, and read through Matthew who points out Old Testament prophecies that show Jesus for who he really is.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 08:41 PM
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It never fails to amaze me how many supposed 'christians' post messages that are intended to instil FEAR in a person.

Heck, the God I know teaches peace and love, not fear.
He wants our love because we WANT to love Him, not because we're
scared (*#&@*less!

In my opnion dusk, we ALL face the final judgement. It is then that we are all going to have to stand up and take responsibility for everything we've done in our lives. Love for Jesus and God sure gives you brownie points mate lol but that is a choice only you can make.

Cheers
PS: Being christian doesn't mean you HAVE to attend church every freakin' day or preach to the masses in the centre of town. Its about loving people and just being a kind and responsible person who loves God. Simple to understand once you take away all the 'church heirachy' BS



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by sanse_nz

Heck, the God I know teaches peace and love, not fear.
He wants our love because we WANT to love Him, not because we're
scared (*#&@*less!


well yes, the christian God is a God of love, but he is also a God of complete violence that if u get in his way he will rip yer head off- just see revelations, if u make the man mad than BOOM instant hell on earth for you! but for now, we live in grace, and God will show his love and mercy untill the end times in Revelation where he will come to earth and sword everyone in the gut from his mouth, as stated in Revelation. God is both a lion, and a lamb.





sorry, you lost me there - no pun intended.

I'm not against christianity - perod. I want a chistians view regading a non believer going to 'hell' or not.

well, its an awful thing to see a non beliver go to hell- but it happens often, and more people go to heaven than hell in the Bible, it says "gate to hell is very wide, very well traveled, "gat to heaven is very narrow, not traveled often" with that, basically what its sayin is more go to hell than heaven. and in the Bible (revelations) it says that Gods belivers will judge the demons, and I am almost as certain unbelivers as well.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by duskboy
I'm not against christianity - perod. I want a chistians view regading a non believer going to 'hell' or not.

Cole: why is there so many priest all over the world if they're not needed?
[edit on 21-4-2005 by duskboy]



You keep talking about priests, that leads me to believe you are viewing this from the perspective of the catholic denomination. That system teaches works to be saved, that is totally different than what the Bible says.

God tells us in the Bible that we are saved by GRACE through FAITH. Grace simply means we are offered the gift of forgiveness of one's sins because God wanted to do it this way. He wanted it to be a free gift to you and me, you don't work for a gift, a gift is given freely. EVERYONE is on the same playing field. The richest person in America and the poorest person in Africa have the same WORTH in God's eyes. It costs a believer nothing, just FAITH in Christ.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by yermom

Originally posted by sanse_nz

Heck, the God I know teaches peace and love, not fear.
He wants our love because we WANT to love Him, not because we're
scared (*#&@*less!


well yes, the christian God is a God of love, but he is also a God of complete violence that if u get in his way he will rip yer head off- just see revelations, if u make the man mad than BOOM instant hell on earth for you! but for now, we live in grace, and God will show his love and mercy untill the end times in Revelation where he will come to earth and sword everyone in the gut from his mouth, as stated in Revelation. God is both a lion, and a lamb.




Hrm. God of Love AND God of violence? I think thats hypocritical - much like the bible and church heirachy/regulations in my opinion.

Why is it that people take the bible so darn literally? It was NOT written word for word by God OR Jesus. Is that so hard for people to understand?
Belief and faith have nothing to do with the written word - unless the written word is all your faith is based on, of course. How sad that must be.

Cheers



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by sanse_nz
Hrm. God of Love AND God of violence?

and I always thought violence was exclusively a Satan thing.. apparently God can wear a halo and carry a pitchfork.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by riley]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 11:19 PM
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Ok, I'm an Atheist, so I really cant tell you if where your going, simply because I dont believe in such, in my opinion, bunk.

However, to point something out, the origonal Christian god, the one told of by Jesus, was not vengful or hateful or mean or spiteful, the christian god accepts all, no matter what belief, or lack there of you may be, or what you have done in life.
Sorry it justs peeves me off when people say that the christian god can be evil.

Also, I really wouldnt trust anything the bible says, since it is 2,000years old, and has been translated into different languages over the years, and changed, having some parts taken out, and some parts added.

In regards to end days, people throughout history have claimed its the end days, so I really wouldnt worry about it, just because some crack pot zealot says so, doesnt make it true, in fact ot doesnt matter whos saying it, its not true, if pope Benedict the 14th came up to me and said it was the end of days, I'd laugh and say, you crazy drunken germans and your silly little religion.

Ok, thats it, I dont have anything else to add to this post, so, bye for now.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by duskboyshould I as a non-believer be afraid/be aware of the final judgement?
Not unless you follow the Christian hype.


can a person who is strong in the faith of God judge me, a free man who lives by different believes sentence me to damnation though all time even though my sentenced soul is of another faith [perhaps none]?... as it is today, is faith a matter of fear and forced behaviour, or a force of good and a common beliefe that man/woman is all together good?
No! And again, not unless you follow the Christian hype. you can take a logic test:

Ask yourself if you believe in God. If the answer is yes then continue...

Do you believe in him?

Do you believe that he guides you?

Do you believe that your actions toward your fellowman and yourself are good, no matter if sometimes you may fail in that regard?

If the answer is yes to all of those, then ponder on...

Why would God whom I believe in and by my own inner guidance and not forced intentions, condemn me for loving him, and for being kind and to my fellowman?

What is better in God's eyes, someone who knows the difference between right and wrong, and follows the path of right unconsciously because I am secure that God subliminally shows me how, where I can be truly remorseful for sometimes doing wrong, or, that someone who knows the difference, may think and wish to act wrongly, but denies their inclination because they are told to only be one way?

In that regard, can I fool God by my actions because I am told how to behave where for example I do not lust after wo/men with whom I am not involved, v.s. those who live by the book and think about lust?

If you believe in God and your answer to those questions is not from the heart, then no Bible, nor human saviour's superficial intervention, will allow you to pass the litmus test.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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first off, thank you all for your input.

hmm, i guess i don't believe in God but rather Good. i try really hard to help other people around me - and to be a good man. i guess that's worth something.

cheers.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Firstly,Hi duskboy..

Your post '''' End of days[Believers] vs. Atheists.'''

Why do you see the end of days as Beleivers vs the Atheists?
When the end of days do come(and we are living in it NOW) it wont be beleivers against atheists or atheists against beleivers........

All mankind whether beleivers or non beleivers will be judged.....
BUT to those that say yeh right! ...think whatever because God will not leave it there....
He will for the last time send His two prophets(read Revelation.11:3,6;11:7,8)) ......Elijah(Elias) and Enoch who will proclaim that the end is here.....and point out the Antichrist.........
When the time is up(the two prophets telling the world)then all will have the choice to make...
A worldly Kingdom on Earth and all its promises(false) or to die and be part of the Resurrection with Christ......
There will be no other choice.....whether you or anyone else beleives this or not......it will come to be.

The Signs that are given to us all for the end of times are nearly all upon us....

Only God knows each and everyone of us.....more so then we know ourselves.....I say this because we may think we are doing good for the goodness of it.
OR we may do goodness because we ourselves want to be recognised as doing good......for vanity purposes......although many will not admit to this.(I myself many times without thinking have been in this situation)
How do we know that the goodness we do is good?
We humble ourselves and keep in mind that we are also prone to death like anyone else.....eg//whether one is of a high ranking profession(whatever it may be) or just a homeless person.....or the other way around ...... we cannot simply think ourselves more worthy then them .....humility is of God......we simply must....... do things in goodness because it's good and not for our own selfish purpose......for recognition or the like ...
If what we do is good and we forget about it, then it is good in the eyes of God.......why then do good if its for others to see?
For vanity makes one think they can do no wrong.........
Humility is .......here are Words of Wisdom.....

ALL QUOTES///A man who is truly humble is not troubled when he is wronged and he says nothing to justify himself against the injustice,
but he accepts slander as truth; he does not attempt to persuade men that he is calumniated, but he begs forgiveness.
~ St. Isaac the Syrian, from The Ascetical Homilies~......


Some visitors came to the Thebaid one day to visit an old man,
bringing one possessed with a devil that he might heal him.
When they persistently asked him, the old man said to the devil,
"Come out of God's creature."
And the devil said to the old man,
"I am going to come out,
but I am going to ask you a question.
Tell me,
who are the goats and who are the sheep?
" The old man said, (myn//recognition of ones sins)
"I am one of the goats,

but as for the sheep,
God alone knows who they are."
When he heard this,
the devil began to cry out with a loud voice,
"Because of your humility,
I am driven away!" and he departed at the same hour.
~The Desert Fathers~

Tame your steed with the bridle of knowledge, lest, looking here and there, he become inflamed with lust towards women and men and throw you, the horseman, to the ground. Pray to God, that He may turn "your eyes, lest they see vanity" (Psalms 118:37). And when you will acquire a manful heart, warfare will depart from you.......

Labor in everything to cut off your own will,
for this is accounted to a man for sacrifice.
This is what is meant by: "For Thee we are mortified all the day,
we are accounted as sheep for slaughter" (Psalms 43:22).
Do not weaken yourselves by conversations,
for they will not allow you to prosper in God.
Firmly bridle the organs of your senses: sight, hearing, smelling, taste, and feeling, and you will prosper by the grace of Christ.
Without tortures(myn/suffering,struggles in life) no one is a martyr,
as the Lord also has said:
"In your patience possess ye your souls" (Luke 21:19)
and the Apostle says,
"in much endurance, in sorrows" (II Corinthians 6:4).
~"Saints Barsanuphius and John: Guidance Toward Spiritual Life," trans. by Fr. Seraphim Rose, (Platina, California: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990)~

above quotes//taken
www.orthodox.net...

take care Duskboy
helen....



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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The only way to be clean is to accept Christ as Savior. Put faith in His completed work on the cross. He bore your sins upon Himself and took the punishment for them so you would never have too, so trust Him for salvation.

Everyone's eyes are focused on the catholic denomination since the death of the pope and the appointing of a new pope. Christ alone forgives, you don't need a priest.



Thats your answer. Well said brandt.

As for thinking that the nice things you do are worth something... ?
That goes against what is in the quote. You cant do it by works. Jesus paid the price, and now he holds all the tickets to the show.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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jake.....you said "you can't do it by works"?

Wow.....and here I was thinking that by being good to other people, I was living up to Gods wishes for me. You're saying I don't have to bother?

Cool.....that means I can go trash anything I want, speak to people like they're scum etc blah blah.

What a wonderful world that'll be......not.

Of course being a GOOD person counts for something! I cannot
fathom why you think it doesn't! To love others and be kind is exactly
what God wants us to do. To think otherwise is completely WEIRD!
I understand faith in God counts for a lot but it sure isn't everything!
By all accounts of what you're saying, a person can believe in God AND be a bad person - and all their bad deeds are forgiven just because they 'believe'? Correct me if I'm wrong but that is hypocrisy at its ripest!

Cheers



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Firstly,Hi duskboy..

Your post '''' End of days[Believers] vs. Atheists.'''

Why do you see the end of days as Beleivers vs the Atheists?
When the end of days do come(and we are living in it NOW) it wont be beleivers against atheists or atheists against beleivers........


sometimes i really wish english was my first language, it's kinda hard to get your thoughts through when you are limited by not beeing able to find the right words... i didn't mean atheists against believers, i guess 'vs.' was a wrong way to put it. heck, i can't even elaborate on what i wanted to know. i have to sleep on it - it's late, two in the morning. brain no worky.

talk to you later,

dboy



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by duskboy
hello my friends.

should I as a non-believer be afraid/be aware of the final judgement?

If you are a non-beleiver you shouldnt even care about it. It should mean nothing to you.


can a person who is strong in the faith of God judge me, a free man who lives by different believes sentence me to damnation though all time even though my sentenced soul is of another faith [perhaps none]?


according to Christian faith no man can judge or should judge, and the damnation of your Soul is in your own hands...noone else to blame but yourself.



... as it is today, is faith a matter of fear and forced behaviour, or a force of good and a common beliefe that man/woman is all together good?


Faith is a matter of LOVE. If you beleive in GOD and in HEAVEn than it is only normal you would wish to be with Him whenever that time comes.


i´ve gone through my wrongs in life and i have made them right by talking to the peeps involved. now, if i'd gone though theese things with a priest - would that have made me pure and 'clean' in the face of st.peter - whoever that is...?


no priest can make you clean of nothing ... if you wish to FOLOW JESUS, all you have to do is ask him to fogrive you your sins, and from than on FOLLOW HIS LAW... and please wahtver you do, dont fall into "Once Saved Always SAved " deal...thats as bad as going back to the past .





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