THE CASE FOR ROSWELL PART IV
Section A (Timeline of the Aftermath)
Part I can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part II can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part III, Section A can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part III, Section B can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part III, Section C can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part III, Section D can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Part III, Section E can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Again, fair warning that this is going to be a long read…but I wanted to be very thorough. I’d highly recommend reading the first parts before
going on, as there is no recapping here…
Upon completion of this thread, I’ll be posting all parts in one long post for easier reference. At
this point, the press had broken the story, but hours later, the balloon coverup goes into full swing. By morning, the incident is destined to be
laughed off for decades to come. However, away from the public eye, the rest of the recovery operation is still taking place, and Brazel is still in
the Army’s custody. A bit severe for recovering some balsa wood and tin foil, as the government continues to claim.
Originally, I thought this would be one post, but after 11 pages in Word only seemed to be a dent in it, it’ll be in at least two different
sections. First, in section A, we’ll discuss the events that happened immediately after the story broke (i.e. the next couple days). Then, in
section B, we’ll discuss what occurred months, years later, as well as illustrate how the story came out. The following are the events from July
9th through the 15th.
Wednesday, July 9,1947
Morning newspapers trumpet the story that the "flying saucer" found near Roswell is a weather device. Some quote Ramey while others quote
"informed" sources, including senators in Washington.
Gen. Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer
Ramey Says Excitement is Not Justified
General Ramey Says Disk is Weather Balloon
Headline of the Roswell Daily Record for July 9, 1947
Clean-up on the various sites resumes at sunup. The military is trying to get everything picked up before any more civilians stumble across the field.
At 8:00 A.M. members of the First Air Transport Unit begin loading crates into C-54s. They load three or four aircraft with an intermediate
destination of Kirtland. From there they are to be taken on to Los Alamos. Armed guards watch the loading of the aircraft.
(The above provided for visualization, shot of a C-54 takeoff from Roswell-though not taken on July 9th)
Testimony from Sergeant Robert Smith (from interviews, 1991)
A lot of people began coming in all of a sudden because of the official investigation. Somebody said it was a plane crash, but we heard from a man in
Roswell that it was not a plane crash, it was something else, a strange object. There was another indication that something serious was going on. One
night, when we were coming back to Roswell, a convoy of trucks covered with canvas passed us. When they got to the [airfield] gate, they headed over
to this hangar on the east end, which was rather unusual. The truck convoy had red lights and sirens. My involvement in the incident was to help
load crates of debris into the aircraft. We all became aware of the event when we went to the hangar on the east side of the ramp. There were a
lot of people in plain clothes all over the place. They were inspectors, but they were strangers on the base. When challenged, they replied they
were here on Project So-and-So, and flashed a card, which was different from a military ID card.
We were taken to the hangar to load crates. There was a lot of farm dirt on the hangar floor. We loaded [the crates] on flatbeds and dollies.
Each crate had to be checked as to width and height. We had to know which crates went on which plane. We loaded crates on three [or] four C-54s.
We weren't supposed to know their destination, but we were told they were headed north. . . .There were armed guards around during loading of
our planes, which was unusual at Roswell. There was no way to get to the ramp except through armed guards. There were MPs on the outskirts, and our
personnel were between them and the planes.
The largest [crate] was roughly twenty feet long, four to five feet high, and four to five feet wide. It took up an entire plane. It wasn't that
heavy, but it was a large volume. The rest of the crates were two or three feet long and two feet square or smaller. [. . . All I saw was a little
piece of material. . . .] The sergeant who had the piece of material said [it was like] the material in the crates. The entire loading took at least
six, perhaps eight hours. Lunch was brought to us, which was unusual. The crates were brought to us on flatbed dollies, which was also unusual.
Officially, we were told it was a crashed plane, but crashed planes usually were taken to the salvage yard, not flown out. I don't think it was an
experimental plane, because not too many people in that area were experimenting with planes. I'm convinced that what we loaded was a UFO that got
into mechanical problems. Even with the most intelligent people, things go wrong. (F&B)
Jud Roberts along with Walt Whitmore, Sr., attempt to drive out to the debris field but run into the military cordon and are turned back. (From Jud
(1) My name is George "Jud" Roberts
(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX
(3) I am (X) retired ( ) employed as: __________________________________
(4) In July 1947, I was a minority stockholder and manager of KGFL Radio in Roswell, New Mexico. We did an interview with W.W. "Mac" Brazel, the
rancher who found some debris on his property. He hid him out at the home of the station owner, W.E. Whitmore, Sr., and recorded the interview on a
(5) The next morning, I got a call from someone in Washington, D.C. It may have been someone in the office of [Senators] Clinton Anderson or Dennis
Chavez. This person said, "We understand that you have some information, and we want to assure you that if you release it, it's very possible that
your station's license will be in jeopardy, so we suggest that you not do it." The person indicated that we might lose our license in as quickly as
three days. I made the decision not to release the story.
(6) I made an attempt to go out to the crash site to see it for myself, but I was turned back by a military person who said we were in a
(7) At that time, there was quite a clamp on any discussion concerning the event. We just decided for Walter Haut's sake that we should sit tight
and not say anything, even though in our own minds, we had some question about the validity of the weather balloon explanation. Weather balloons were
launched about a block from our station every day. We didn't accept the official explanation, but we had no evidence to the contrary.
(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed: George F. "Jud" Roberts
Signature witnessed by:
Sunwest Bank of Roswell, N.M.
Roswell, New Mexico
By: Nancy Montgomery, Assistant Cashier
According to Roswell Army Air Field head secretary Elizabeth Kyle (from interviews), the telephones at the base are still tied up by the incoming
calls. (an interesting side note, “Elizabeth” and “Kyle” were later chosen as character names for the Roswell TV series. Not relevant
really, but I did find it interesting.)
More of the wreckage is brought into the base and is now being taken to be boxed into crates of various sizes and shapes.
Bud Payne, a rancher in the Corona area, tries to go to the Foster ranch. He is turned back. (From his Affidavit of 9/14/93)
"When I heard about the flying saucer coming down on the Foster
ranch a few days after it happened in early July 1947, I decided to see if I could get a piece of the thing. The site where the saucer came down was
about two or two and a half miles east of the east boundary of our pasture. I drove over there in a pickup truck.
"Before I reached the site, I was stopped by two soldiers sitting in an Army truck parked beside the ranch road I was on. They were in field
uniforms, and they may have been armed, wearing pistols. There were more vehicles and soldiers on higher ground beyond where I had been stopped.
"I told the two soldiers who stopped me I was going to where the flying saucer came down. They said 'We know where you're going, but you can't go
in there." They did not threaten me, but they had their instructions to turn everybody back."
At 12:00 PM. the crate that has been sitting in the empty hangar guarded by the MPs is moved out to bomb pit number one. Nothing other than weapons
has ever been stored in the bomb pit.
In Roswell Floyd Proctor and Lyman Strickland see Mac Brazel under escort by three military officers. He ignores both of them, something that he
wouldn't have done under normal circumstances.
According to Daily Record editor Paul McEvoy, the military officers escorted the rancher out of the news office immediately upon the conclusion of the
interview. While they were walking toward the car, two of Brazel's neighbors — Floyd Proctor and Lyman Strickland — passed by. Both men were
surprised that their friend didn't acknowledge them in any way.
Proctor said later that the military was keeping Brazel on a very short leash. Two other neighbors — Leonard Porter, who lived on the ranch south of
Brazel's, and Bill Jenkins, another rancher — reported they saw Brazel surrounded by military personnel in downtown Roswell. The rancher kept his
eyes down and pretended he didn't notice his neighbors.
At lunch (at the officers’ club) the nurse tells Dennis she is sick and wants to return to the barracks. In the course of the meal, she has provided
Dennis with an account of what has happened and given him a drawing of the alien bodies. (from Dennis’ affidavit, mentioned earlier in this
series…see Sections C&D of the timeline) We’ve talked about the controversy surrounding the name of Naomi Self before. However, there is another
witness who corroborates this name, and who did actually swear to an affidavit. David Wagnon.
1) My name is David N. Wagnon
(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX
(3) I am ( ) employed as: Toxicologist (x) I am semiretired.
(4) I arrived in Roswell, New Mexico, in April 1946 as an enlisted member of the U.S. Army Air Force. I served at Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) for
two years, assigned to Squadron "M," the medical unit, as a technician in the base hospital laboratory. After leaving the service, I earned an
undergraduate and graduate degrees in science, taught high school, and was a school principal and drug education consultant. In July 1947, I was 19
and a private first class.
(5) I do not recall anything about a crashed flying saucer incident during the time I was stationed at RAAF, but I do remember an Army nurse named
Naomi Self, who was assigned to the base hospital. She was small, attractive, in her twenties, and, I believe, a brunette. I seem to recall Miss
Self was transferred from RAAF while I was still stationed there, but I am not at all certain about this.
(6) Miss Self's name really stuck with me because it is somewhat unusual and she was dating the local Red Cross representative, who was quite a
bit older, probably in his late forties. I do not remember the man's name, but do recall he had an office in town and was always hanging around
Squadron "M" and the emergency room. (this is likely Glenn Dennis, but he did not confirm this)
(7) There were rumors about Miss Self have a D&C (dilatation and curettage) in the base hospital, the tissue being sent off (probably to Brook
Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas), and the biopsy report coming back with some indication of fetal tissue. There was a lot of speculation about
this in the squadron.
(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed: David N. Wagnon
Date: November 15, 1993
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME
THIS 15 DAY OF Nov 1993
Lisa C. Watson, NOTARY PUBLIC
So, what happened to Miss Self? We’ve got two different individuals claiming to know the individual, and even to her duties on the base, and yet
she seems to have vanished without a trace. Then, if one recalls the testimony of several of the Roswell witnesses, such as Proctor, Dennis, etc.
then it is easy to remember that that is EXACTLY what the military threatened to do to people who talked. They threatened to not only kill such
witnesses, but also to erase their existence. Others who attack Dennis as a witness should also know that the claim of bodies was not made later in
interviews, but actually also at the time of the event, as stated by former Roswell police chief L. M. Hall (from an affidavit)
(1) My name is L. M. Hall
(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX
(3) I am ( ) employed as: _________________________________ (x) retired,
(4) I came to Roswell, New Mexico, in 1943, while serving in the Army Air Force. I was a military policeman and investigator at Roswell Army Air
Field (RAAF). In 1946, after being discharged from the service, I joined the Roswell Police Department, and in 1964 I was appointed chief of police,
serving for 14 and a half years. I am now a member of the Roswell City Council.
(5) In 1947, I was a motorcycle office, with patrol duty on South Main Street, between town and RAAF. I and other police officers would often take
our breaks in the small lounge at the Ballard Funeral Home t 910 South Main, where Glenn Dennis worked. I had gotten to know Glenn when I was a base
MP because he made ambulance calls to the base under a contract Ballard's had, so I would sometimes have coffee with him if he was at work when I
(6) One day in July 1947, I was at Ballard's on a break, and Glenn and I were in the driveway "batting the breeze." I was sitting on my
motorcycle, and Glenn stood nearby. He remarked, "I had a funny call from the base. They wanted to know if we had several baby caskets." Then
he started laughing and said, "I asked what for, and they said they wanted to bury [or ship] those aliens," something to that effect. I thought it
was one of those "gotcha" jokes, so I didn't bite. He never said anything else about it, and I didn't either.
(7) I believe our conversation took place couple of days after the stories about a crashed flying saucer appeared in the Roswell papers.
(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed: L. M. Hall
Under military escort Brazel is taken into town and into the offices of the Roswell Daily Record. There he gives reporters, including R. A. Adair and
Jason Kellahin from Albuquerque, a new story. Now he claims to have found the debris on June 14. He also says he has found weather observation devices
on two other occasions, and what he found is no weather balloon.
Ramey's weather officer; Irving Newton, says the weather balloon is a special kind. "We use them because they go much higher than the eye can see.
An officer from the base sweeps through Roswell picking up copies of Haut's press release, including those at the two radio stations. (Art McQuiddy
said that a military officer had retrieved the copies of the press release written by Haut.)
Late in the afternoon, a flight crew at the skeet range is told they have a special flight coming up. The squadron operations officer; Edgar Skelly,
tells the aircraft commander to keep everyone together.
The aircraft loaded by Robert Smith and other members of the First Air Transport Unit takes off for Albuquerque. The crates will eventually reach Los
Alamos. All the crates are marked with stencils saying TOP SECRET.
Members of the flight crew pulled from the skeet range quickly preflight their aircraft. Once that is accomplished, they taxi out to the bomb pit. The
only places on the base where the bomb pit can be observed are the tower and portions of the flight line.
A sealed, unmarked wooden crate is brought out and loaded into the bomb bay of the B-29, tail number 7301. Six armed MPs guard it, never allowing it
out of their sight.
At Fort Worth a number of officers meet the aircraft. One is a man the bombardier recognizes as a mortician with whom he went to school. (From the
affidavit of Sergeant Robert Slusher, of the 393rd Bomb Squadron, Pflock, FUFOR, 1993)
Sgt. Robert Slusher
On July 9, 1947, I boarded a B-29 which taxied to the bomb area on the base to get a crate, which we loaded into the forward bomb bay. Four armed MPs
guarded the crate, which was approximately four feet high, five feet wide, and 12 feet long. We departed Roswell at approximately 4:00 PM for Fort
Worth [later Carswell AFB]. ... On arrival at Fort Worth we were met by six people, including three MPs. They took possession of the crate. The
crate was loaded on to a flatbed weapons carrier and hauled off. Their MPs accompanied the crate. One officer present was a major, the other a 1st
lieutenant. The sixth person was an undertaker who had been a classmate of a crewman on our flight, Lt. Felix Martucci. ...
Lt. Felix Martucci
After returning to Roswell, we realized that what was in the crate was classified. There were rumors that they had carried debris from a crash.
Whether there were any bodies, I don't know. The crate had been specially made; it had no markings.
Another person of the crew (identified only as “Tim”), from interviews with Randle and Schmidt (1991). In all of his conversations with
researchers, he has asked for his identity to be withheld, but he appears to have been fully verified by many. (the photo below is pixilated to
conceal identity, but to somewhat convey this). If his testimony was something out of the ordinary, I wouldn’t even include it here, but since
it’s just corroboration, I’ll include it but with the disclaimer that other than taking people at their word, I cannot verify his identity
publicly, nor to you the reader.
"The sergeant in charge of the range asked us if we had heard about the "flying disc" that had crashed out in the desert. Twice more before leaving
the skeet range, we heard reports of a spaceship with bodies inside that had been found on a ranch in the area. ... We were positioned so the front
bomb-bay was directly over the pit which was covered with a large tarp. But no atomic bomb was in the pit that afternoon. When the canvas was removed
by the loading crew, all we could see was a very large wooden box. ( [The box] was made of wood ... and was unpainted and unmarked as though hastily
constructed. Fitting snugly into the bomb-bay, its approximate size: 5 ft. high, 4 ft. wide and about 15 ft. long.) ... Once the load was secured in
the bomb-bay, four military policemen went inside and took positions at each corner of the box. I think two of them were majors, and one a lieutenant.
The fourth man was an NCO. ... One of the crew, a very outspoken individual, said on the way home, that we were now a "part of history." He went on
to say, he knew it was the disc and remains of the flight crew because he had seen a man he recognized in the reception group. This man was a
mortician by military specialty.”
At 6:00 PM. Joseph Montoya (then Lt. Governor, now a late Senator) returns to the base to catch the courier flight to land. He wants to get out of
Roswell and forget what he has seen.
Pete Annaya, who maintains that the late U.S. Senator Joseph Montoya had a firsthand encounter with alien bodies in Hangar 84 on the Roswell base back
in 1947. The witness' wife, Mary, corroborates his story, as does his son, who later worked for Montoya. (Thomas J. Carey, The Roswell
According to the Anaya brothers, they received a telephone call from a shaken Montoya; he asked them to join him at the hangar as soon as possible and
pick him up.
The brothers, who both worked on the base, drove over to hangar area but were kept at a distance from the building by armed guards. Montoya appeared
through a small door in the front of the hangar and staggered over to the car and the waiting Anayas. Montoya shouted at them, "Let's get the hell
out of here!"
The Anayas drove to their home. Montoya sat in the back seat; they said he looked ghostly pale, shook for the entire ride, and repeated over and over
again, "They weren't human! They weren't human!"
The next day, the two Anaya brothers and their families were paid a visit at their homes by Sheriff Wilcox. According to Pete Anaya and his wife,
Mary, who were interviewed again in September 2002 about this incident, Wilcox vowed to impose the ultimate sanction upon them if they talked about
what they had seen:
"If you say anything, you will be killed. And your entire family will be killed, as well."
There are actually other witness accounts of being threatened by Wilcox. An interesting note is that he did not again run for Sheriff.
According to family and friends, the Roswell events "destroyed him." Now we know why. When asked about all this just a few years ago, a former
deputy of Wilcox's responded, "I don't want to get shot."
(Same link as above)
Sheriff Wilcox, from the July 9th Roswell Daily Record
Mac Brazel calls on Frank Joyce, this time with a new story (at this point he’s recanted the earlier story (while being detained), and claims to
have found a weather balloon on June 14th (almost a month ago at this time), and simply just got around to turning it in, (sure is a lot of fuss for a
weather balloon, even a Mogul one, no? The date of course, was to allow the story to work at all, since without changing the date, the military knew
they didn’t have a leg to stand on as they had no such balloons in the area during the actual recovery date) significantly different from the one he
told on Sunday. When Joyce points that out, Brazel responds that it "would go hard on him" if he didn't tell the new story.
You're not going to say anything about what I told you the other day, are you?" Brazel asked Joyce.
"Not if you don't want me to," Joyce responded.
"Good," Brazel said. "You know our lives will never be the same."
At 8:00 PM. the flight crew is back. Again, they were not debriefed, but are told that they have flown the general's furniture to Fort Worth. They
are cautioned not to tell anyone, including their families, what they have done. As far as everyone is concerned, the flight has not taken place.
Wow, top secret furniture delivery?…I’m sure the pilots had to be questioning this one! According to the testimony of both “Tim” and Slusher
(and a couple others that would simply be redundant here), the “general’s furniture” comment was really more of a running joke with the
Upon his return, Marcel confronts Cavitt in the intelligence office. Marcel wants the reports filed in his absence, but Cavitt refuses. Marcel points
out that he is the senior officer but is told the orders came from Washington. If he has a problem, to "take it up with them."
Major Jesse Marcel
The next morning, Marcel arrived at his office and confronted the officer who had accompanied him to Mack Brazel's ranch to first investigate the
crash: the head of counter intelligence (CIC), Capt. Sheridan Cavitt.
"I want to see the report of what all happened here while I was in Fort Worth," Marcel demanded.
"What report?" Cavitt answered. "I don't know what you're talking about."
"I outrank you," the major reminded him.
"I take my orders from Washington," Cavitt said. "If you don't like it, you can take it up with them." On that note, the CIC officer put an
abrupt end to the debate.
The Las Vegas Review-Journal, along with dozens of other newspapers, carries a United Press story. "Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the
sky fell off sharply today as the army and the navy began a concentrated campaign to stop the rumors." The story also reports that AAF headquarters
in Washington "delivered a blistering rebuke to officers at Roswell."
Thursday, July 10, 1947
As he reads the morning newspaper, Bill Brazel learns about his father's activities in Roswell. He realizes that no one will be at the ranch and
makes plans to get down there (to the ranch) to help.
At the debris field and impact site men are working to get everything cleaned up. They want nothing left and no signs of their presence.
Military personnel return to Sheriff Wilcox's office and ask for the box of debris he has been storing for them. Wilcox surrenders it without
Mac Brazel is being held in the guest house on the base. The officers there are still trying to convince him that he is not to say anything about what
he has seen. They are also trying to keep him out of the way of reporters. He is given a physical by doctors at the base hospital. (From numerous
interviews and testimony)
Sheriff Wilcox calls on Glenn Dennis's father, telling him that his son has gotten himself into trouble out at the base. The sheriff had been visited
by a sergeant who wants to ensure Glenn's silence.
Dennis' life had been threatened at the base hospital, by an officer who demanded Dennis forget what he had witnessed there. Like broadcaster Frank
Joyce, Dennis became incensed at his treatment by the officer and openly defied the order to remain silent. The next day, his father received a visit
from Sheriff Wilcox and a deputy, who told the elder Dennis that his son "was in trouble at the base." Dennis had no doubt that the Army officer's
threat of the previous day was part of the message delivered to his father by Wilcox.
Major W. D. Prichard from Alamogordo claims that a unit from his base in Roswell launched balloons around June 14. That, according to the article
reported in the Roswell Daily Record, is undoubtedly what Brazel had found, and of course, this now matches with the new story given by Brazel after
being held, and interrogated by the military.
Friday, July 11, 1947
The debriefings of all the participants are under way. Participants are taken into a room in small groups and told that the recovery is a highly
classified event. No one is to talk about it to anyone. Everyone is to forget that it ever happened.
When he tries to contact his nurse friend, Glenn Dennis is informed that she has been transferred from the base and that no one knows where she has
Members of the military warn those civilians around Roswell who know something of the events that they can never talk about what happened. In some
cases, the witnesses are threatened with death should they speak to anyone.
Saturday, July 12, 1947
Bill Brazel and his wife, Shirley, arrive at the ranch, but no one is around. Brazel begins his work, first surveying the ranch to see what needs to
be done. He sees no evidence of a continued military presence. The trucks, jeeps, soldiers, and cordon are gone.
This weekend no aircraft with gun cameras search for the flying disks. No aircraft on standby wait for orders to take off. In fact, all aircraft are
ordered grounded to prevent further searching.
Tuesday, July 15, 1947
Mac Brazel returns from Roswell. He’s driving a brand new pickup truck. All he will say about his experience is that his interrogators kept asking
him the same questions over and over again and that Bill is better off not knowing what happened. Besides, Mac has taken an oath that he will never
reveal, in detail, what he saw. By now most of the world has forgotten that a flying saucer supposedly crashed in New Mexico. (Only later in life does
he again tell what he really saw, and about how he was forced to go along with the coverup)
On Tuesday 15th July Mac Brazel was again intimidated by the Army but although he had lived in poverty it was noticeable that he now had a brand new
truck, money to buy a new house at Tularosa and a cold store at Las Cruces.
I didn’t realize weather balloon recovery paid so well. I’m obviously in the wrong business.
Events happen slowly from here on out. The story has been successfully buried now, if not for the witnesses, at least for the rest of the world.
Looking back, it’s almost impossible to imagine that all of this would be about finding a bunch of tin foil, balsa wood, and neoprene…yet in
post-WWII, good citizens trusted the military, indeed in a base town, where anything and everything depended on it, and revolved around it.
Next we’ll see how things happened from here, how the story came out, and some of the ramifications the event had in the military…
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Part IV, Section B can be seen here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
[edit on 21-4-2005 by Gazrok]