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New Pope Urged Priests to Deny Communion to John Kerry

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posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
Now if you're a "good" Catholic and formally cooperated in evil by voting Kerry, tell your preist you're not fit to accept communion until you've confessed your sin of excercising your rights as an American.

Rant, Rant, Rant. If you sin while 'excercising your rights as an
American' then you do indeed need to confess those sins. The
Catholic church doesn't have any problem with people excercising
their American rights .. unless those rights run over what the
Catholic church has deemed God's law. Murder is one of those
laws that the Catholic church will not tolerate - even if murder is
an 'American right' to be excercised.

Guess that means you can choose which you want - one or the
other - murder or Catholic communion. To choose both is hypocricy.




posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as 'good works' (see James in the bible)... The Catholic church
doesn't say that salvation comes from good works. Salvation comes
from Christ. Good works are an outword sign of salvation and a
natural expression of God's saving grace in our lives.


Ahh, then in that we are in agreement. I saw someone interviewed, though, who has a doctorate in canon law. He's also in the Catholic church (not sure what his title was, but he had the black getup with the white collar) who was saying that Kerry was risking his soul by advocating abortion. That, among other things, was where I had the impression that good works weren't percieved just as an outward sign of salvation but rather a requirement for. After all, if you can lose heaven for supporting abortion, I would think that would constitute salvation through faith in Christ and good works, if bad works can send you to Hell.

For anyone who's interested or wants to fill in some details, the canon law guy was on O'Reilly the day before yesterday (April 19th).



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Guess that means you can choose which you want - one or the
other - murder or Catholic communion. To choose both is hypocricy.



Actually what the Ratzi said was voting for a candidate that supports reproductive choice (on the basis of that support) is formal cooperation in evil. So it's not murder that was the problem, it's voting your conscious that was the sin that would preclude communion.

And you're right, it's quite hypocritical for anyone that expects political freedoms like voting your choice in a democracy (or support for the laws of soverign nations) to have any part of an authortiarian theocracy like Catholicsm (or increasingly hyper-political protestantism). We "liberate" fundamentalist regimes just for this reason.

The election eve Bin Laden video and Ratzi memo are far more similar than not.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RANT]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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The new Pope was a Hitler Youth.




"April 19, 2005 | Pope Benedict XVI as young Joseph Ratzinger. Ratzinger's past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and the Luftwaffe. Very controversial in Germany, he earned the nickname, "the Panzer cardinal...."

Read more here:

www.truthout.org...



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
The new Pope was a Hitler Youth.




"April 19, 2005 | Pope Benedict XVI as young Joseph Ratzinger. Ratzinger's past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and the Luftwaffe. Very controversial in Germany, he earned the nickname, "the Panzer cardinal...."

Read more here:

www.truthout.org...


There's more to the story:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He came out and has never tried to hide his past, and deserted for ideological reasons when he was 16. The Hitler Youth was manditory in bavaria, and he was 12 years old. Calling him the Panzer cardinal because he was forced to be in the Hitler Youth or die, along with his family, is a wee bit of unfair, in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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So I suppose the state executing an innocent man isnt an example of murder?
Please show me where capital punishments are endorsed scripturely by the way. Old Testament quotes are unnacceptable (Jesus supposedly freed us from all that leviticus crap afte all) I want to know when exactly it was that Jesus said it was okay to take a man's life.

This is hypocrisy no matter how you slice it. Everyone forgets that to have a true "Culture of Life" you have to have a culture of life ie no death penalty no preemptive war etc. Well I havent forgotten and Im going to call every act of hypocrisy I see by these so called self proclaimed moral crusaders. You people only want a culture of life when its convenient for your personal beliefs.

I may be an agnostic being driven closer and closer to atheism every day thanks to the religious right but even I know that your god wont meet you half way on anything. He wants it all he wont settle for less and he's not known for his mercy toward people that fail to fulfill his purpose. Keep that in mind next time you support the death penalty.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
what the Ratzi said was voting for a candidate that supports reproductive choice (on the basis of that support) is formal cooperation in evil. So it's not murder that was the problem, it's voting your conscious that was the sin that would preclude communion.


Voting for a candidate that supports abortion (MURDER) definately
is formal cooperation in evil. Ratzinger is supposed to be a shepherd of
the church. It's his job to say so. People absolutely should vote
their conscious ... and if their conscious is well fed and educated
about the facts surrounding abortion then they won't vote for an
abortionist politician.

Reproductive choice? We could get into that catchy culture of death
phrase ... no choice for the poor child being painfully sucked apart or
burnt to death is there?? But that's a discussion for another thread.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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He came out and has never tried to hide his past, and deserted for ideological reasons when he was 16. The Hitler Youth was manditory in bavaria, and he was 12 years old. Calling him the Panzer cardinal because he was forced to be in the Hitler Youth or die, along with his family, is a wee bit of unfair, in my opinion.


Ahh, but we always have a choice do we not?

He chose life over his beliefs and convictions.

Do you really think someone not willing to die for their beliefs (even at age 12 through 16), is worthy of being a direct conduit to God?

Such choices shouldn't exclude him from most things in life, but you'd think this particular post would be one such exclusion... Guess not.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
We "liberate" fundamentalist regimes just for this reason.
The election eve Bin Laden video and Ratzi memo are
far more similar than not.


Rant I hear where you are coming from, but the connection
just isn't there.

Ratzinger does his job by telling people that if they don't believe
in the Catholic church, the teachings and/or the magisterium
then they can still worship in the church but they can't receive
communion.

Bin Laden tells people that his followers must kill all infidels.

Big difference between - 'hey, you can worship here
but you can't receive communion' to 'go out and kill everyone who
doesn't believe like us'.

I understand your concern. I really do. REALLY. But all
Ratzinger does by stating Catholic doctrine and saying 'get with it
or get out' is he gets a smaller, but more doctrinally-Catholic correct
church. Those who don't agree either continue being hypocrites
and take communion, or they just leave and go worship and take
communion with the Episcopals (or whoever).


[edit on 4/21/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
I saw someone interviewed, though, who has a doctorate in canon law.

Cardinal Mahoney from L.A. has college degrees and education up to
his eyeballs ... and yet he STILL doesn't understand basic Catholicism.
And he's a cardinal. Go figure.

Kerry was risking his soul by advocating abortion.

I agree with this. By Kerry supporting and pushing abortion he is
supporting and pushing murder of unborn. His actions directly impact
unborn children and have probably caused not a just a few fencesitters
to think abortion was okay - even when you are Catholic - and go out
and kill their children. He is in part responsible.

Example - if you write a book about how to kill people and not get
caught ... and people read it .. and people do it ... YOU are in part
responsible for those murders. They wouldn't have happened if
you hadn't provided the means or the know-how. You may not have
pulled the trigger, but you contributed to the murder.

O'Reilly

*groan* O'Reilly. Sorry, but I don't dig the guy. He 'interviews'
people but then spends most of the time preaching instead of
allowing the guest to answer questions. I like Hardball much better.



[edit on 4/21/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok


The Hitler Youth was manditory in bavaria, and he was 12 years old.

Such choices shouldn't exclude him from most things in life, but you'd think this particular post would be one such exclusion... Guess not.

He was 12. He's now 78. 66 years ago he got signed up with
everyone else his age and he didn't know any better. The major
Jewish groups understand this and have no problem with him.
There is no reason this should exclude him from this office.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
So I suppose the state executing an innocent man isnt an example of murder?

On the death certificate of a person put to death, it is listed as
homicide. Just FYI for folks ...

Please show me where capital punishments are endorsed scripturely by the way.

There is more to life than what is 'just' in the scriptures. Sola
Scriptura would create a fundamentalist society much like the
Taliban is the sola scriptura of the muslims. No thanks. Hockey
isn't in the bible, but I'd like to keep that. Beer isn't in the bible,
wine is, but beer isn't and I like Molsen and I want to keep that.
Orthodontists aren't in scripture and neither are psychologists
but society needs them too. etc etc etc

Keep that in mind next time you support the death penalty.

I don't support the death penalty. Only in cases of self defense.
Which shouldn't happen very often, considering the jails we have
and all.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Oh here we go again with this crap. I knew that as soon as Ratzinger got elected this type of nonesense would start popping up. Frankly I gave up listening to any of the crap the Vatican spews when I finally started thinking for myself which was oh lets say when I was 11? 12?

Yeah for a man who supposedly leads a religion based on love and understanding they seem to say one thing and do another. It's "do as I say, not as I do".

I wonder how long it'll be before the gay bashing starts again.


[edit on 21-4-2005 by Ocelot]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Ocelot
for a man who supposedly leads a religion based on love and understanding ..

And truth. Love, Understanding and TRUTH.

The truth as the Catholic church sees it is that abortion
is murder. To support abortion is to support murder. Love and
understanding are wonderful and definately a part of Catholicism.
Part of love is to tell people in the church when they are wrong.

If Kerry is excommunicated it shouldn't be a big deal to him or
anyone else. Kerry obvsiously doesn't believe in what the Catholic
church teaches, or else he wouldn't be a candidate for excommuncation.
So if the church says he can't take communion, I'm sure he wouldn't
care because he doesn't believe in what Communion is anyways. He
doesn't believe in the magesterium of the church. I don't know why
he even bothers to go to a Catholic church, he doesn't believe in it.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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so.... anybody, who in any way, supports or aids in the murder of an innocent person isn't shouldn't be eligible to take communion?

okay, what about the receptionist at the ob's office....that there doctor, I remember, he did an abortion for that poor lady with all those health problems...save her live, but killed the baby...she shouldn't be taking communion.

or....the clerical worker at the psychiatry office, I heard that shrink...he was counseling a women about abortion....of course, I don't know how much went into her head....all she did was stare out the window.

or... gee.....let's get serious here. should any american catholic be paying taxes to our government? I mean one look into the Iran-Contra affair could lead just about anyone into the realization that our govenrment is probably aiding and abetting in the murder of a few people every once in awhile.....

or it just the politicians that are being threatened with being denied communion rights here? Personally, I don't care what any particular church teaches, if I don't like it, well I can leave and either find another church, or heck, create my own religion if I want. But, when it gets to the point where people those beliefs clash so badly with the society that women are inconvenienced by having to go to another store to buy what just be needed medication, well, there is something wrong!!!

I mean, I would be totally peeved off if I had walked 5 or more miles to the nearest drugstore, because I needed the medication, and then found that because someone's had to invoke their moral values onto me, I had to walk another three. and I would be just as peeved if I had arranged for a ride and been dropped off at the store, just to have to inconvenience the person again in order to go to another store. I think some of the christians have gone off the deep end!



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Absloutly it will. How dare they stand by what they believe instead of adopting San Fransisco's explanation of what is good and just in this world? How dare they follow their doctrine? Those fools!


I wasn't being sarcastic.

The church should NEVER evolve. They should remain deeply entrenched in the past. I DON'T want the church to change. I DON'T want liberal priests to get there way. I want good old conservative values and beliefs to be upheld in every single way possible by Pope Benedict AND his successors.

If I could, I would mandate a pope channel on every television, broadcasting Catholic Dogma 24 hours a day. I want these men running through the streets at night, screaming their religious edicts for everyone in the world to hear. I don't want them silenced, I want them louder. And, I want the Catholic Heirarchy to get absolutey that they want.

Because, then the church will wither away and die.

They've been dying in the industrialized world for at least 47 years, and I don't want them to do anything that might prolong the process. Adopting a more liberal social persona might stem the tide for another couple hundred years.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
If they don't believe it ... they aren't really
Catholic to begin with and shouldn't be receiving communion at all.


I mean this very seriously, I think you should take this one step further and deny communion to all Catholics who support abortion rights.

They're obviously in league with "evil".

Pro choice Catholics are not following church Dogma. They're obviously not elligible to recieve communion, so they shouldn't be allowed to participate.

I think it's a great idea. You really need to root them out. Drive them away from your empty pews. Further weaken Catholic influence in the Western world. Empty those collection plates even more. With your help, even more churches can be shuttered. Even more city wide dioceses can go bankrupt.

I support any and all attempts by devout Catholics to make their member ranks more pure -- and drive out the Christmas and Easter folk.



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