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A note to the republicans

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posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 04:18 PM
I just saw that post about the pics of the Sons' bodies and I was kinda disgusted. Then, I read this opinion letter:

America is shamed.

by Rhett Redelings-MacDermott .

07/24/03: You know what bothers me the most? Not that George W. Bush lied to us. I knew he was lying. I was doing the research to know he was lying. I could tell he was lying in his State of the Union speech. I read 1984 as a kid and I could see the propaganda machine spinning its yarn. Besides, with the help of the republican dominated Supreme Court, he stole the election. And look at the people in his administration. Look at their individual and collective track records. What kind of integrity did we really expect from these people?

No, what bothers me is how easily we were (mis)led. What bothers me is how blood-thirsty the average American revealed himself to be. I won't forget the hand painted signs on the tanks that read " Baghdad today, Paris tomorrow". I won't forget how French fries, French toast and French bread all became freedom fries, freedom toast and freedom bread. I won't forget seeing Americans betraying the values of their own country by trying to silence those of us who disagreed with them. I won't forget being called a traitor or a terrorist or at the very least, unpatriotic, because I believed the Bush administration's endless "war on terrorism" to be a farce and the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq to be ruinous for America as well as being illegal and unwarranted atrocities. I won't forget how it feels to have the rest of the world look at us like we're the new Nazi state. I won't forget how it feels to know that they're probably right. It wasn't just a handful of extremists thirsting for blood and trying to silence any and all opposition. It wasn't just a handful of extremists promoting intolerance, paranoia and blind nationalism. It wasn't just a handful of extremists supporting hate crimes, both at home and abroad. It wasn't just a handful of extremists giving away our rights and undermining the values of the United States of America .

It was the every day American citizens goose-stepping right along with the extremists, because it feels good to believe you're on the winning team, it feels good to think you've got it all figured out and, let's face it, it feels good to do whatever you like, no matter who or what it hurts. Nothing makes fear subside like kicking someone's ass and feeling powerful. It doesn't even matter if they deserve it. Children on playgrounds know this. And they resent it when an adult steps in and reprimands them. They resent having to learn how to behave in a civilized manner and they resent having to accept that what they want isnt always good for them or good for others. They dont want responsibility. But they are children and dont know any better. It is for the adults to know better and to guide our children in making sense of the world and making healthy, thoughtful choices. What will our children learn from our own behavior? Can you see the irony here? Its looking at you in the mirror.

America is shamed today. At the worst, we'll just put blinders on and keep on goose-stepping our way into the economic, environmental and social disaster of an endless Third World War. At best, we'll make a quick course correction, and have to pay for this war, and our children will have to pay for it and their children too. And it won't stop there. We'll have to make reparations to the Iraqi people. And we'll have to show a lot of good faith for a long time to the rest of the world. And we won't be able to throw our weight around any more. This will likely weaken our position in the world, because the planets biggest psycho government wont be as dangerous anymore.

Our world has changed, yes. Not because of 9/11, but because of who we allowed ourselves to become and what we allowed ourselves to accept as a result.

The problem isnt just that George W. Bush and his crew got into office. And the problem isnt just that theyve undermined our country with lies, illegal wars and a largely unopposed attack on our personal freedoms. The problem is that we let them.

America is shamed. And I am shamed right along with her.

Me too.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 04:20 PM
link ml

Personally , i'm proud.

UDAY, Saddam Hussein's feared elder son, and president of the Iraq National Olympic Committee, tortured footballers who played below par, Time magazine reports in its latest issue.

Players had their feet scalded and toenails ripped off for failing to win and allegations of torture were investigated by the international football federation FIFA.

However Time says the investigations failed because no player would dare admit to suffering such abuse for fear of even worse.

Time however says it has found what may be the first tangible evidence pointing to torture in Uday's own backyard, the administrative compound of the Iraqi national Olympic committee in central Baghdad.

Hidden in a pile of dead leaves, 20 metres from the building housing the Iraqi Football Association, was an iron maiden.

Big enough to house a grown man, the sarcophagus-shaped device is a large, metal closet with long spikes on the inside door that closes to impale its victim.

The one found in Baghdad was clearly worn from use, its nails having lost some of their sharpness.

It lay on its side within view of Uday's first-floor offices in the soccer association. The torture device was brought to Time's attention by a group of looters who had been stripping the compound of anything of value.

They had left behind the iron maiden, believing it to be worthless.

US troops found scores of pages on torture printed from web sites when they inspected his wrecked sports centre inside the presidential compound.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 04:24 PM

Uday's idea of a good party

Among the smouldering ruins of Uday's Baghdad palace, Philip Sherwell discovers evidence of a life which revolved around guns, drugs, women, cars and clothes

The playboy existence enjoyed by Saddam's eldest son Uday has emerged in its full debauchery in a set of photographs recovered last week by The Telegraph from the smouldering ruins of his riverside Baghdad palace.

Other more sinister pictures had already been recovered by US special forces conducting war crimes investigations into Iraq's deposed elite. In one album, they found photographs of Uday, a known sadist, beating up women and tearing their clothes off.

"It was sick stuff," said Capt Cary Adams, a marine officer. "It really shows what a bad guy he was."

The pictures published here for the first time were taken during a private party at which Uday, 39, surrounded himself with his customary coterie of young women.

The negatives were found in a large cream envelope adorned by the Iraqi eagle, the government crest. "Highly confidential," the envelope read in Arabic. "Hand deliver only. For His Excellency Uday Saddam Hussein, may God save him."

The pictures show Uday, wearing a typically garish shirt, passionately kissing a series of women. Laughing and joking, he offers a cigar to one dark-haired girl.

In others, he is smoking a hubble-bubble or recklessly firing a Kalashnikov on the balcony. Significantly, he is seated while the women dance in front of him - suggesting that he is still suffering the after-effects of a 1996 assassination attempt that almost paralysed him.

Well-informed reports say that he was also left impotent by the attack. None the less, in the grounds of his wrecked palace, we came upon what he called his "Tower of Babylon" where he would bring the unfortunate women he had picked - sometimes, according to witnesses, strangers whom he dragged off the roadside - to please him.

His third-floor bedroom was a tasteless throwback to the 1970s, with a mirrored bed, plastic flowers, heart-shaped cushions and panoramic views of the private lake where he would go windsurfing.

Some girls welcomed the advances of the rich and powerful Uday. Love letters have also been found, one sealed with a lipstick kiss. "Remember me when you listen to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, which I heard for the first time with you," reads one.

Uday's reputation as a womaniser, drinker and bully eventually turned even his father against him and he was replaced as heir apparent by his younger and less profligate brother Qusay. In another letter, Uday wrote: "My father wants to go down in history. There is nothing in my heart towards my father, not any love or kindness."

Throughout the palace and its grounds, evidence of his self-indulgence could be found. In one corner, we found several portraits and photographs that the famously vain Uday had collected. Among the remnants of the drive, dozens of weapons - ranging from inscribed swords and ceremonial muskets to sub-machineguns and Kalashnikovs - were scattered.

In cages outside the faux Babylonian gates, American soldiers came across Uday's beloved pets - a lion and two lionesses - now abandoned and pacing hungrily up and down. The troops were feeding them with dead donkeys.

Pornographic images downloaded from the internet, bags of heroin, expensive liqueurs and vintage cars were found in the ruins of another home, as were print-outs from medical websites about cirrhosis of the liver - a sign that he was worried about his love of whisky and cognac. He also had instructions for a "health diagnostic HIV test".

On our palace tour, our final discovery was his dressing-room, packed with hundreds of flamboyant outfits, many never worn. Most bore designer labels: Dolce & Gabbana or Yves Saint Laurent.

Closer examination, however, revealed that the items were apparently fakes. One pair of trousers bore labels for both Christian Dior and Dolce & Gabbana, while the name Yves Sanit Laurent appeared inside a jacket.

The fate of its owner is a mystery. Saddam and his sons have not been seen since they reportedly entered a restaurant in Baghdad's al-Mansur district which was destroyed in a coalition missile attack.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 04:25 PM

Saddam's Son Uday Accused of Murder
As Iraq's top Olympic official, Uday Hussein is accused of the torture and murder of athletes who fail to win.

THE BUTCHER'S BOY , as he is sometimes called, is reputed to be the most brutal member of Iraq's notorious ruling family. As an infant he reportedly played with disarmed grenades. By 10 he was accompanying his father to the torture chamber at Qasr-al-Nihayyah (the Palace of the End, where many political enemies, including deposed King Faisal II, were killed) to watch Saddam deal with dissidents. By 16 he bragged of committing his first murder, telling classmates he had killed a teacher who had upbraided him in front of a girlfriend.

For nearly 20 years Uday Hussein has been the most powerful force in Iraq's athletic hierarchy. In 1984, when Uday was 20, Saddam handed his son the reins of both the country's Olympic committee and its soccer federation, hoping Uday could help rebuild the spirit of the nation's youth while also proving himself a worthy successor to his father. ...Uday's penchant for violence has long been an open secret among international athletic officials. ...

"Two stories about Uday leap to mind," the State Department official told SI. "The first is the caning of the feet -- called falaka -- of the soccer team. That form of torture is well known to be used by Saddam's forces as well. They beat the soles of the feet, which breaks a lot of the smaller bones, causes massive swelling and leaves victims unable to walk for a while. There were also reports that after a loss Uday forced the volleyball team, which was made up of taller athletes, to remain in a room he had constructed with a five-foot-high ceiling. He built the room so small that not all of them could sit at the same time. The only way they could fit was by having half of them standing and leaning over while the other half were sitting with their knees in their chests. He considered this a motivational technique. There was always a psychological element to the kind of torture Uday employed.

A human rights group has lodged a complaint with the International Olympics Committee, backed up by several affidavits of tortured athletes. There has been no investigation or action to date.
IOC president Jacques Rogge acknowledged last week that his organization received the complaint and says it is in the hands of the ethics committee. But IOC member Richard Pound says that it is "important to remember these are just allegations, and you have to make sure this is not all tied to the Iraq-U.S. dispute, that we are not being used for propaganda. You just never know."
This is disgusting, and we hope other rights groups join the effort to hold this son of Saddam accountable, assuming he wasn't killed last week. He belongs in the International Criminal Court. The court Bush refused to allow America to join. At least we can't think of any way Bush and Rumsfeld could intervene to stop any such proceedings brought against Uday.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 05:58 PM

It sounds like Rhett needs an enema, because he is WAY for a LONG time full $h@t!

That article doesn't even say anything. It's a rant. It's a flame. It's emotion. It's one whiney-butt's opinion...and not even a well articulated one.

It's a doesn't even qualify as an editorial.'re apparently down to the dregs.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:05 PM
Nah, the good Colonel, (my friend, although a socialist) gets down to the dregs when he starts accusing everyone of being a racist.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:06 PM
well, that would be the dregs of his PERSONAL stock...

I'm talking about the borrowed stuff!

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:09 PM
Hmm... Valhall v. Colonel in a debate??? Sorry, sweetpea (correct spelling!), my money is on Colonel. He is trained to debate.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:11 PM
Of coarse....he is a lawyer after all.


posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Freddie
Hmm... Valhall v. Colonel in a debate??? Sorry, sweetpea (correct spelling!), my money is on Colonel. He is trained to debate.

You're right. She don' want none o' this.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:16 PM
Lawyers of ATS unite! ATSBA?

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Valhall
GAWD!'re apparently down to the dregs.

Well, I guess you're finally happy to have company. Do they have air freshener down here or is it that you just don't use deodorant?

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:17 PM
I would have to say that if the originating post of this thread is any evidence of what he considers good logic is...

I'm not all that afraid.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:20 PM
Fury: I know all about the atrocities of the brothers. Its been in every magazine from Time to Maxim. But, to revel over the pics is distasteful and there are other dictators just as bad like Mugabe.

I mean, I think getting tied to a trees and beaten with a 2x4 wrapped with barbed wires is kinda vile but, no one is taking him down?

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:28 PM
CF, the reason why the pictures were released was because the Iraqi's will not believe they are truly gone without pictures.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:36 PM
Being trained to argue the case in front of a jury, not picked of actual peers that knows the defendant and his position and reputation in the community, but off of a voter's registration list or driver's license list, depending on state. As an attorney (a-turn-ey, one who twists the facts so as to sway opinions in one's favor), the Colonel would not be one that I'd pick, if he argues his case as he argues a position here. I'm sure he is a worthy person as a friend and beer-drinker, but I'm not impressed with his ability to do anything but recite nauseatingly liberal biases here. His credibility is tainted in my view due to an obvious hatred to anything that sounds conservative or traditional in American culture, and he actually thinks Bush is a conservative, or has given me the impression that is his view.

Tomorrow, Bush could announce that he has come up with the cure for cancer and that it will save millions of lives, but people like Colonel would automatically scream, "Can't you blind people see that Bush is only trying to make his friends in the drug industry rich?!?"

Whether there is a conspiracy underlying the attack on Iraq, many of us that have actually paid attention to the ongoing middle-eastern saga before 9/11 have been waiting for the right thing to be done. Those who pay attention to the news remember hearing things such as the Iraqi/binLaden connection long after it is no longer mentioned. Many of us hear despots "declare war" on America and wait for terrorist attacks on the U.S., whether they be on continental soil or interests abroad, and wonder why those in charge act as if nobody will actually try something.

Sure, those two animals were raised to be animals; children can't grow up viewing humans being fed to plastic shredder for their father's entertainment and not become twisted, sick creatures. But the fact remains that they were sick, twisted creatures that tortured, raped and brutalized other human beings for pleasure and that the world is a better place for their demise, and their demise was too painless and easy for the pain they have inflicted on innocent people to be considered justice, and anyone who can feel ashamed that we put the dogs to sleep are as sick and in need of help as the two animals were.

I take my earlier statement back; if the Colonel is ashamed and felt disgusted that we killed the animals, then I can figure no way that he could be a worthy friend or beer-drinker. He has issues that go deeper than I can deal with.

As far as anyone debating him, why would anyone want to debate a man so filled with hate, so out of touch with reality and so biased to the world? There would be no debate from which anyone could extract valuable information. Not from any post I've seen him make, yet.

Again, anyone who is disgusted or ashamed that Uday and Qusay are dead are in dire need of a good dose of reality.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:39 PM
I'm actually debating him right now in the forum, TC. i think you'd be rather amused to see how he structures his arguments.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 07:15 PM

Originally posted by goregrinder
I'm actually debating him right now in the forum, TC. i think you'd be rather amused to see how he structures his arguments.

I wouldn't advertise that too loudly if I were you.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

I take my earlier statement back; if the Colonel is ashamed and felt disgusted that we killed the animals, then I can figure no way that he could be a worthy friend or beer-drinker. He has issues that go deeper than I can deal with.

Again YOU twist reality---just like a repugnant. I never said that it is bad that they are dead. What is bad is that YOU hunger to see the pictures to quench your savage, animalistic repugnant bloodlust, a common trait amongst all of you republicans.

posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 07:25 PM
I have to agree in part in Colonel. The last thing that 9/11 did was make us more vigilant. What 9/11 did was give the average American (who doesn't have the good sense god gave a salad bar) the animalistic desire to destroy the nearest person of arab decent. Gulf War 2 did nothing but strengthen that desire.

What did this war do for America? Unite us? I think not, but it did make some certain people a lot of money. War does nothing but seperate a nation's people and kill innocent lives at the expense of those few that are in power.

I am not sorry for Saddam's sons having been killed, but I am ashamed of most American's behavior during a time such as this. I am ashamed because if you strip of those superficial morals and that American flag, you get nothig but a blood thirsty human lusting for victory no matter what it costs...

PS. TC, can you provide some reason for us Bush-haters to not hate Bush? Still haven't gotten an answer to that question.

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