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EU in the election

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posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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What do people think the impact of the EU will be on this election?

Ignoring polls, do people think that the EU will play an unforseen part making people vote for UKIP in unexpected numbers?

Will the loonies who think the EU is democratic and a useful organisation to which to belong (ignoring the truth that this is a super-state in waiting) risk voting for the Conservatives if that is their political bias?

Who should you vote for
Also, has everyone here tried
www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com... ?

Makes for interesting results...

I have my results on my website: www.gavpolitics.co.uk




posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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To be honest, I think, and hope that the UKIP have already had their day. They are essentially a one policy party, and their support comes from sensationalism and nationalist knee-jerk reactions to the challenges that the EU brings.

How can a voter - who is supposed to have weighed up the options and made an intelligible decision about their vote - trust the running of the country to a party who were formed and who exist only to address one issue?

I certainly do hope that the EU is a major debating issue in the election, because it is important, but I would be concerned to see people voting UKIP as an emotional or nationalistic response to the EU debate, while ignoring the many other issues up for discussion.


[edit on 19-4-2005 by Paul]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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I think the EU should be a issue but not the main issue in the election, thats what the Euro elections are for, as for UKIP making gains on the General election I very much doubt it.


Originally posted by GavinAyling
Who should you vote for
Also, has everyone here tried
www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com... ?


I got
UKIP 28
Green 26
Conservative 17
Lib Dem -4
Labour -20



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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I think after William Hague's disasterous 'keep the pound' tory general election campaign in 2001 it is no surprise that the EU has been all but invisible in this election, it simply is not a topic high on the agenda of most Britons (a fact supported by the dismally low turnouts in the Euro elections in Britain).
Pity but there you have it.

But come EU/Euro/Constitution referendum time when all those stay-at-homes rouse themselves to actually go and vote on the really big issues over 'Europe' and it'll be (just as happened before) a very different story IMO.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I think after William Hague's disasterous 'keep the pound' tory general election campaign in 2001 it is no surprise that the EU has been all but invisible in this election, it simply is not a topic high on the agenda of most Britons (a fact supported by the dismally low turnouts in the Euro elections in Britain).
Pity but there you have it.

But come EU/Euro/Constitution referendum time when all those stay-at-homes rouse themselves to actually go and vote on the really big issues over 'Europe' and it'll be (just as happened before) a very different story IMO.


A very different story. Will the government of the day listen to the opinion of the people on Europe generally when implied by the overwhelming result (in England at least) in the referendum, though - I doubt it.

I think the first past the post method seriously affects the result of elections (okay, I know it does actually!) and I know of many people who would vote UKIP were it PR (or another similar method like the European 'Parliament' elections).

What were your 'WhoShouldYouVoteFor' results?



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by GavinAyling
What were your 'WhoShouldYouVoteFor' results?


- Oh, they've gone.
There was a crash on this site and they must have been part of the posts that disappeared.

You'll maybe be ready to be knocked down with a feather if I tell you I got Labour 1st and Greens 2nd?



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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I got:

Labour -20
Conservative 13
Liberal Democrat 0
UK Independence Party 10
Green -8


Strange....

Wouldn't have thought I was a conservative, as I am pretty Pro-Europe and I don't agree with their Euro policies. Oh well, the form said vote Conservative, so off I go.....



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Wouldn't have thought I was a conservative, as I am pretty Pro-Europe and I don't agree with their Euro policies.


- Before the current loopy zealot element took over it was once a perfectly respectable thing to be tory and pro-Europe stu.


Oh well, the form said vote Conservative, so off I go.....


- You left off the laughing emote.......you did didn't you stu, say you did stu.......




posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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- Before the current loopy zealot element took over it was once a perfectly respectable thing to be tory and pro-Europe stu.


Who would of thunk it? Me, a closet conservative....

Although, if they are going to reclassify Cannabis, then they have lost my vote..going the wrong way lads! DECLASSIFY!! DECLASSIFY!!...........they just don't listen do they?



- You left off the laughing emote.......you did didn't you stu, say you did stu.......


Dont worry Smink, I left it off on purpose, as I enjoy subtle humour and to see who gets it


Not like a certain element on this board that blindly follows what someone/something else tells them!



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Although, if they are going to reclassify Cannabis, then they have lost my vote..going the wrong way lads! DECLASSIFY!! DECLASSIFY!!...........they just don't listen do they?


- Yeah, sadly they are still in the grip of that Daily Mail mentality.

(not that it really matters a toss on the ground anyway tho.......apparantly quality home grown is a huge cottage industry in Brtiain now.
Apparantly one just has make sure to use neon and not sodium lighting.....by all accounts the sudden huge jump in lecky bills caused by using the sodium lights is one way they catch growers!
)



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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- Yeah, sadly they are still in the grip of that Daily Mail mentality.

(not that it really matters a toss on the ground anyway tho.......apparantly quality home grown is a huge cottage industry in Brtiain now.
Apparantly one just has make sure to use neon and not sodium lighting.....by all accounts the sudden huge jump in lecky bills caused by using the sodium lights is one way they catch growers! )


Arrgh! Don't get me started on the Mail. I hate it almost as bad as the Sun!

And I shall bear in mind your tips for growing. I shall pass it along to my "suppliers"



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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That is one reason I am voting green. Not only do they want to legalise cannibis, they have a very valid reason for it. According to British Gas, about £100m of power is spent every year on home growers. If it is legalised, this energy isn't wasted, and it the mong can be imported. Also, this helps other countries economies too!

It all makes sense.



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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That is one reason I am voting green. Not only do they want to legalise cannibis, they have a very valid reason for it. According to British Gas, about £100m of power is spent every year on home growers. If it is legalised, this energy isn't wasted, and it the mong can be imported. Also, this helps other countries economies too!

It all makes sense.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by stumason



- Before the current loopy zealot element took over it was once a perfectly respectable thing to be tory and pro-Europe stu.


Who would of thunk it? Me, a closet conservative....

Although, if they are going to reclassify Cannabis, then they have lost my vote..going the wrong way lads! DECLASSIFY!! DECLASSIFY!!...........they just don't listen do they?



- You left off the laughing emote.......you did didn't you stu, say you did stu.......


Dont worry Smink, I left it off on purpose, as I enjoy subtle humour and to see who gets it


Not like a certain element on this board that blindly follows what someone/something else tells them!



Aside from the stand on Cannabis (which has some meritous arguments), are there any other policies that you would rather?



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 06:54 AM
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Well im pro-europe, and I consider the Anti-europe people to be backward and delusional.

Concerning this election, I dont believe Europe is an issue. UKIP have stated this has been the hardest campaign so far, I believe the Conservatives have delegated to their candidates, whether or not to make an issue out of Europe, Labour havent mentioned it at all
, Lib dems have said they will have a referendum.

My local Conservative candidate supposedly did a deal with UKIP(months ago) so that they wouldnt stand against him, as the Conservative is anti-eu. Unfortunately for him, they reneged and are now fielding a candidate, which if anything will hamper UKIP, as the Conservative candidate is making a big issue out of his anti-eu stance.

In my opinion, UKIP is doing itself more harm than good, by campaigning during this election(especially considering the Conservatives have hardened their anti-eu stance). They should wait until Europe becomes an issue, like the pro-europe people are



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by squarepusher
Labour havent mentioned it at all
, Lib dems have said they will have a referendum.


- But the Labour position is surely similar to the LibDems?

They - like the LibDems - have not especially gone out of their way to push the issue (let's face it, because it's dead this time around) but they have promised referendums on the new 'constitution' in '06 and the Euro when they decide 'the time is right'.


They should wait until Europe becomes an issue, like the pro-europe people are


- Exactly.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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Yes, sorry about that, Labour do say they will hold a referendum when their 5(?) tests are met... To me thats an easy way of saying "yeah but no but yeah but no but etc.." May be me being cynical but I feel it is part of Labour's big tent idealogy, appeasing everyone and no-one.

The problem with Labour is that they had their chance to join the EU, and if we had joined by now, we would be in a strong postion within the EU. One of France's stumbling points concerning the EU constitution, is that it is too "Anglo-saxon", and if they reject it in their referendum it will be re-written more in their favour.

This is more opinion than fact on my behalf, but I doubt Blair's effectiveness now, within Europe. That said, Kennedy is an unknown, im really not sure how strong a leader he could be.

Of course, im saying all this as if a yes vote in the referendum was/is a certainty, which it isnt. There are a lot of myths and half-truths used by the anti-eu parties that will be clarified once the EU becomes an issue. I had hoped that Labour did more during the last 8 years, but they didnt.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by squarepusher
Yes, sorry about that, Labour do say they will hold a referendum when their 5(?) tests are met... To me thats an easy way of saying "yeah but no but yeah but no but etc.." May be me being cynical but I feel it is part of Labour's big tent idealogy, appeasing everyone and no-one.


- Do you think it would have been possible to just simply join the Euro without regard to the prevailing economic conditions?

I can't agree with that; IMO that is exactly what led to the tory mess with the ERM under Major. They (Major, Mellor, Clark etc) forced Thatcher to agree to joining the ERM at a totally unsuitable rate thinking that it would somehow just all work out.
It was an expensive disaster......and a pretty lethal political one for the tories considering the way it has seemingly permanently poisoned tory politics vis Europe into their present loopy position.

I expect we will find joining the Euro a benefit but nothing like the benefit it could have been had we been in from the start (and we also have to now watch just how expensive it will initially be given the ERM debacle).


The problem with Labour is that they had their chance to join the EU


- You mean Euro, surely? We are already full members of the EU.


and if we had joined by now, we would be in a strong postion within the EU.


- ......or alternately we might have joined the Euro and had to leave due to going in at an unsustainable rate which would have left us in a much weaker position.

There are definitely 2 sides to this.


One of France's stumbling points concerning the EU constitution, is that it is too "Anglo-saxon", and if they reject it in their referendum it will be re-written more in their favour.


- I wouldn't be too pessimistic, the latest French polls are now pointing to a yes vote.


This is more opinion than fact on my behalf, but I doubt Blair's effectiveness now, within Europe. That said, Kennedy is an unknown, im really not sure how strong a leader he could be.


- The UK's 'effectiveness' in Europe has been affected by several decades of the usual British attitudes alternating between sneering at 'them' (before we joined - going right back to the early 1950's) or our half-hearted actually being in but acting as if we weren't (going back to the 1980s').

I think this gov has changed that but has not lost sight that there remains nevertheless a 'national interest' that cannot just be ignored.

That's the point about the Euro; ultimately I see us joining but not at a time or circumstance that will cost us at or near the maximum possible cost.

Sadly the boat was missed on this long before this Labour gov came into office (it was missed as far back as the UK's staying out of the early ERM/EMU debates etc in the 1970's. The UK rather grandly if slightly deludedly saw itself as hanging on to a few of the remnants of empire and having Sterling as a 'world reserve currency' and therefore above the petty continental currencies).

As usual the UK will join in with these things late, miss many of the benefits and find it expensive when we do actually get around to joining.


Of course, im saying all this as if a yes vote in the referendum was/is a certainty, which it isnt. There are a lot of myths and half-truths used by the anti-eu parties that will be clarified once the EU becomes an issue.


- I agree. Once people start to hear the 'pro side' (something many many polls tell us that the public are pretty aware that they have not heard so far) I see opinion shifting significantly.

(in fact the last few 'constitution' polls already are showing it closer in the UK than previously thought)


I had hoped that Labour did more during the last 8 years, but they didnt.


- Bit by bit matey.
I think things will change but gradually. I certainly don't think things have not moved in the 8yrs of this gov and I am pretty sure they will be very different in the next 8.

IMO the Euro is a bit like a badge, a totum.
Just because we have yet to see UK membership of it does not mean nothing else has been going on.




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