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Can homosexuals enter the Major Mysteries of the Esoteric Path?

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posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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Greetings,

I was recently pretty thrilled to discover in this very forum a link to an apparently active co-Masonic organization. Wow! Something I didn't even know existed to get all paranoid about. Then I discovered 3 Lodges of a women-only Masonic organization. Even more... unusual.

Anyway, it occures to me that I just flat don't know what all is out there and what is even on the Web to find.

Could people offer me pointers to various other irregular Masonic organization and/or quasi-Masonic imitations?

I've found all 728+ "only true" Golden Dawn groups. And, of course, the Elks and such are around. So, I guess I should say that I'm looking for the more obscure groups.

And no, the various organizations that make up (A)F&AM Masonry and their appendant and related organizations don't count. So, the Order of the Eastern Star, Job's Daughters, the Order of DeMolay, Rainbow Girls, the Daughters of the Nile, the Chivalric Order of the Fellow Soldiers of Jaques Demolay, etc. etc. don't flip my lid.

Any suggestions?




posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Paul Bessels site has TONS of information. One link lists all the Grand Lodges in the U.S.A. (including the irregular ones)

bessel.org...



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Thanks Senrak. That's a particularly useful site and it seems to have a great deal of actual information (as distingished from blind fantasy). It just landed in my favorites.

Anyone else?

What about Egyptian Masonry? The Rite of Memphis? Is that still around?

(I know, I know... Google. But then you get a ton of results and it takes forever to sort through the trash to find a gem... plus, I'm sure there are things for which I haven't even the words to search on.)



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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I've posted the Bessel link before but the thread was closed due to Senrak and Sebatwerk wrecking it.
He must be wondering what the hell is going on lately, his site only had 700 hundred hits in five years before I posted it here!
Dunno about "TONS" of info but at least he lists quite a few of the irregular grand lodges.

Heres the original thread:
Honest/Good Sources about Irregular Freemasonry?

[edit on 14-4-2005 by MrNECROS]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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Hey, I just went and had a look back at the Bessel site and he's pulled heaps of stuff off of it, now there's a bunch of dead lnks to several subjects and his counters been reset.

Something fishy going on here maybe?



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Hey, I just went and had a look back at the Bessel site and he's pulled heaps of stuff off of it, now there's a bunch of dead lnks to several subjects and his counters been reset.

Something fishy going on here maybe?


I heard someone blew up his toilet and fed his dog laxatives, just before drugging him and forcing him to watch ceremonies, for posting rituals on the web.

Something fishy going on here maybe?



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Hey, I just went and had a look back at the Bessel site and he's pulled heaps of stuff off of it, now there's a bunch of dead lnks to several subjects and his counters been reset.
Something fishy going on here maybe?


Yes Necros, it's yet another Masonic conspiracy about you. It's always about you.

The most likely thing is that Paul Bessel who owns the site is a very busy Attorney in Washington DC and probably hasn't had time to keep it updated lately.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
I've posted the Bessel link before but the thread was closed due to Senrak and Sebatwerk wrecking it.



Yes, indeed Necros. Sebatwerk and I "wrecked" your precious thread. We "wrecked" it by pointing out the nonsense, half-truths and outright lies that were being posted.

Remember "deny ignorance" don't perpetuated it. Sheesh!



I'm currently ignoring 3 people - are you one of them?


Dear God I HOPE so!!!!



[edit on 15-4-2005 by senrak]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
I've posted the Bessel link before but the thread was closed due to Senrak and Sebatwerk wrecking it.



That's the most hilarious thing I've read yet today hahaha. Yeah, they wrecked it...


And If I am one of the three people you are currently ignoring, frankly, I could give a rat's [patootie], and I'm sure the same goes for anyone else it may be (I have a good idea).

Have a nice day, and keep an eye on your crapper.


[edited vulgarity - nygdan]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Nygdan]

Vulgarity?! Hardly.


[edit on 4/15/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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The bessel site works
bessel.org...

The images for some of the buttons don't seem to work tho, but the links for the buttons still work.

That thread was closed because it got off topic. This thread will get closed too if it gets off topic. The topic is, generally, irregular and pseudo-masonic organizations.

Here is an intersting one
Illuminati Order
It seems that its founder is associated with irregular masonry, and he's claiming to have been given an 'Illuminati Rite' and is offering it to other people.

López de Rojas incorporated in the Rite of the Illuminati Order (Operative Rite of The Illuminated of Bavaria) his experience as high degree in several masonic Rites like Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite (33º), Ancient and Primitive Memphis-Misraïm Rite (96º and 97º), Egyptian Rite…

Initiation System of López de Rojas (Redism) is structured in two Masonic Rites: Illuminati Order's one with thirteen degrees (Operative Rite of The Illuminated of Bavaria) and Societas OTO's one with ten degrees (Operative Rite of Memphis-Misraïm), which have important Masonic degrees.


He also seems to run this group
Redist Ordo Templi Orientalis
I think that there is a different, bigger, "OTO" out there tho no?


Cug

posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I think that there is a different, bigger, "OTO" out there tho no?


Ok here goes, First note there was/is an OTO war over who is the "real" OTO, and who gets Crowley's copyrights.. long story..

Ordo Templi Orientis: This is IMHO the "real" OTO (Sometimes called the Caliphate OTO by it's detractors) It is the largest with over 4000 members. oto-usa.org...

Societas Ordo Templi Orientis - A Brazilian branch that lost a US court battle over Crowley's Copyrights with the Caliphate OTO.

Typhonian Ordo Templi Orientis - Based in England, Main claim to fame is that they deal with aliens. OK, it's not the main claim


The Swiss Ordo Templi Orientis - Based in Switzerland

These 4 were the main players in the OTO wars. I believe the SOTO is almost gone right now.. there are several orders that don't use the OTO name that branched from them.

UROTO - is a newer European branch, I believe they are trying to consolidate the Swiss and Typhonian OTO's, no idea if it's working.

Fraternitas Saturni might be of interest to folks in here as they really seem to be secret... at least to the English speaking world. They started when a bunch of German OTO members resigned sometime after Crowley took over the OTO. As far as I know they follow the Law of Thelema like the others but they do it in their own way.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Cug]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Cug]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by driley
What about Egyptian Masonry? The Rite of Memphis? Is that still around?


I believe the Memphis Rite is still practiced in France, where they admit women and atheists into lodges. I don't know if it is unchanged from earlier last century, but I do think it's still around.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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users.erols.com...

Here's a little info...

www.grandcollegeofrites.org...

The GCR is open to any Master Mason in good standing... I intend to join at some point in the future, but I'm not in a rush... first things first.


The cool thing about this is that it's not "Irregular" but you can experience the rituals and ceremonies that have long since been defunct. Good stuff. I know of at least one member of this forum who is a Fellow.


Another very interesting organization open to Master Masons:

www.freemasonry.org...



[edit on 4/15/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
Ok here goes, First note there was/is an OTO war over who is the "real" OTO, and who gets Crowley's copyrights.. long story..


OTO Wars. Now that would make a great TV reality show, I bet.

I've always been curious about the OTO. Such mixed stories one gets, as with everything related to Crowley, I guess.

First, is it true that a Masonic Grand Lodge (I heard Massachusetts, but...) has banned OTO from meeting in any Masonic owned building? And don't say all outside groups can't meet in Masonic buildings because I belonged to one that does... BOTA, by name. I left, however. Turns out enlightenment is unlikely to come by correspondance course.

The Golden Dawn groups and their off-spring, and in this I include OTO, albeit sort of the cousin born to a black-sheep branch of the family, are always so prone to fighting amongst themselves. The battle over who owns the Original and True Rights to the Genuine Golden Dawn name is interesting.

Paul Case (founder of BOTA, another GD inspired group) claimed in some of his writings (letters to Regardie, I think) that the problems were caused by the malicious influence of Enochian and Eastern elements into the Golden Dawn system. Well, it is a theory, anyway.

I've always wanted to chat to someone about OTO who wasn't an idiot. But, sadly, haven't had the opportunity. Anything you'd like to share, Cug, would be most welcome.

Thanks!



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Driley, have you come for initiation into Crowley's 11th degree of the OTO?

I wonder why the teachings are spread out the way they are.

It must be cool to learn in person the Secrets of the Knights Templar, just not my cup of tea, you see.

They were a bit 'ultra-Masculine' for my tastes. You know, so manly they didn't even MIND riding behind another man on a horse. All day.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Driley, have you come for initiation into Crowley's 11th degree of the OTO?

I wonder why the teachings are spread out the way they are.

It must be cool to learn in person the Secrets of the Knights Templar, just not my cup of tea, you see.

They were a bit 'ultra-Masculine' for my tastes. You know, so manly they didn't even MIND riding behind another man on a horse. All day.





posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
It must be cool to learn in person the Secrets of the Knights Templar, just not my cup of tea, you see.

They were a bit 'ultra-Masculine' for my tastes. You know, so manly they didn't even MIND riding behind another man on a horse. All day.


Asked and answered. See else-thread.

In any case, nope. Never been to anything OTO. But from what I've read, it seems significantly unlikely to be homoerotic, if that is your implication. It would appear that a significant portion of the basis of the OTO might be hetero-oriented sex magic.

But then I'm outside, looking in and guessing.

Cug?

I apologize if I am mistaken, but I have to call you on what appears to be a particularly sneering sort of homophobia. Again, if that wasn't your intent, I am sorry.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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I've always wanted to chat to someone about OTO who wasn't an idiot. But, sadly, haven't had the opportunity. Anything you'd like to share, Cug, would be most welcome.


You may get the chance, I've recently applied for membership here
down under.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
=They were a bit 'ultra-Masculine' for my tastes. You know, so manly they didn't even MIND riding behind another man on a horse. All day.


We've been over this before, Akilles. The fact that you REFUSE to post links to references and proof makes you the worsts kind of troll possible. Are you just a parakeet that repeats the first thing he hears that makes a good fantasy? Huh? Is that you, Akilles? Cuz it sure looks that way from here.

STOP LYING AKILLES. EITHER PROVE YOUR CLAIM, OR ADMIT YOU CAN'T!


[edit on 15-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by driley

In any case, nope. Never been to anything OTO. But from what I've read, it seems significantly unlikely to be homoerotic, if that is your implication. It would appear that a significant portion of the basis of the OTO might be hetero-oriented sex magic.



Peace driley


I'll post it again:



SUMMARY OF CROWLEY’S SEX MAGICK SYSTEM

VII° Adoration of the phallus as Baphomet, both within and without
VIII° Interaction with something outside the closed vessels of the vagina and the anus
IX° Interaction inside the vagina with either the blood or the secretions of a woman when excited
X° Impregnation + fertilisation of an egg + the act of creation or succession (e.g. election of the OHO)
XI° Two-folded: i) Isolation in the anus where it is considered unable to interact with anything at all ii) interaction with excrements (one of Crowley’s preferred ingredients) and small amounts of blood (when small wounds occur through the intercourse), mucus and of course the mucous membranes that lead directly into the blood supply, etc., etc.



I'm not sure if this is currently utilized in any present day O.T.O. Lodges; but according to my understanding, it was in Aleister Crowley's day and was at times between two males.



It is absolutely disgusting and is a complete mockery of the true Arcanum-A.Z.F.(Yab-Yum), which is only between a MAN AND WOMAN of Normal Sexuality:









[edit on 15-4-2005 by Tamahu]




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