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USAF budget cuts. Only 179 raptors?

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posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by Lucretius
Considering the typhoon has a hit ratio of about .5 against the raptor you would only need 358 Typhons to have an equal force.

In other words the UK RAF alone equiped with 232 Typhoons could take on the entire USAF raptor force and take a very large chunk out of it


No - it does not work like that. The ratios do not compare the Raptor to the Typhoon, they compare both aircraft vs a Mig. That does not mean that the ratios can be used to make a ratio of Raptors to Typhoons.

Each aircraft has it's own traits, and the traits of the Mig can not be used as an indicator of how 2 seperate aircraft would do against each other.

IMO (and I stress opinion) the Raptor could realistically be able to take on 4 Typhoons by it's self, due mainly to the stealth advantage it enjoys.



Originally posted by chinawhite
WTF if you think about how fast tech is developed then the raptor is not goin to be top aircraft for more than 15-20 years. they will probaly find some way to detect it (i think the russians already claimed they could) also the american airforce has looks of commitments in the world and 10 raptors here or ten raptors there wont cut it. It might be better now but nothing says the best for ever


ChinaWhite, I agree with you that the Raptor will not be the best more then 20 years from now.


However, I am baffled at how you act like this is a bad thing. If the Raptor is THE best for 15-20 years as we agree, then the Raptor was the best aircraft of it's generation. 20 years from now UCAVs will make the bulk of our airpower, and will be cheaper then manned fighters.

In 20 years, the US (along with every other country) will have a new fighter, and the US will most likely have the best new one there as well since we enjoy such a lead in all aspect stealth as well as UAV technology.

Also, how can Russia say they have a way to detect it? They have never been close to it! This is pure propaganda from their side, just like when they said that the Mig 1.44 was stealthier then the Raptor. How would they know? What can they base those claims off of? The answere is of course, there is no way - it's just rhetoric.




posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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The F-15 came out in 75 its 2005 doesn't seem to me like the F-15 become obsolete in in 15-20 years. And in 20 years 6th generation fighters come out so were good.



posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Every country in the world would kill for just one Raptor, but still we will get more than 179 as the current number stands right now at 339-380 Raptors.


WTF if you think about how fast tech is developed then the raptor is not goin to be top aircraft for more than 15-20 years. they will probaly find some way to detect it (i think the russians already claimed they could) also the american airforce has looks of commitments in the world and 10 raptors here or ten raptors there wont cut it. It might be better now but nothing says the best for ever


And so that is why you claim the US requires more raptors??!
Because it will be obsolete according to you in 15-20 years..??
What's the logic in that?

Infact.. if its going to be obsolete in only 15-20 years then why build more!


well people are saying having a few f-22 will be enough to take on future threats(pak-fa mig-xx MCA or j-xx) they will need to put f-22 everywhere now america is fighting terrorist. have 12 raptors againest the planed future planes is like going to be suicide.



posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man


Originally posted by chinawhite
WTF if you think about how fast tech is developed then the raptor is not goin to be top aircraft for more than 15-20 years. they will probaly find some way to detect it (i think the russians already claimed they could) also the american airforce has looks of commitments in the world and 10 raptors here or ten raptors there wont cut it. It might be better now but nothing says the best for ever


ChinaWhite, I agree with you that the Raptor will not be the best more then 20 years from now.


However, I am baffled at how you act like this is a bad thing. If the Raptor is THE best for 15-20 years as we agree, then the Raptor was the best aircraft of it's generation. 20 years from now UCAVs will make the bulk of our airpower, and will be cheaper then manned fighters.

In 20 years, the US (along with every other country) will have a new fighter, and the US will most likely have the best new one there as well since we enjoy such a lead in all aspect stealth as well as UAV technology.

Also, how can Russia say they have a way to detect it? They have never been close to it! This is pure propaganda from their side, just like when they said that the Mig 1.44 was stealthier then the Raptor. How would they know? What can they base those claims off of? The answere is of course, there is no way - it's just rhetoric.


im saying that in 15-20 years there we be aircraft with general performance to f-22 and if they have 10-20 raptors againest 50-100 aircraft of same or nearly the same performance then the other side has the advantage

Hal Gershanoff, “Russia Claims New SAM System Defeats Stealth,” Journal of Electronic Defense, 1 June 1999; “Russia Trumpets New S-400 Missile System,” BBC Monitoring, 23 March 2001.

theres a czeh radar that claims that it can detect stealth

www.aeronautics.ru...



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
The F-15 came out in 75 its 2005 doesn't seem to me like the F-15 become obsolete in in 15-20 years. And in 20 years 6th generation fighters come out so were good.


when the f-15 plane came out it was the best performance fighter and since then there are numerous planes that can take it on (su-27 su-30 eurofighter rafael) i didn't mean obsolete but challenged



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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chinawhite the Raptor is not for fighting the war on terror. And why is this thread still open? The number of raptors in not 179 its 339-380.




West Point, Out.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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we're disscussing if 179 raptors would be enough.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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I thought they already had 350 +..

ARe they going to scuttle the extra ones??



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:03 AM
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didn't they just start making the f-22



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
I thought they already had 350 +..

ARe they going to scuttle the extra ones??


My friend, they don't build airplanes that fast! I don't know how many F-22 have been built so far, but I don't think they have reached the 100 mark yet. High Tech Aircraft take a long time to build. At peak production Lockeed's Skunkworks could only build 6 F-117 Nighthawks in a year. Airplanes are not like cars, it takes months to build a single aircraft. Be patient, the F-22's are coming!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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The Raptor has just started full production this month, by the end of 2005 Langley AF base will have a squadron of 16 operational F/A-22's.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Personally I think that the number of F22's the USAF gets is very significant. I don't doubt the Raptor's technological supremacy, but unless you deploy it in sufficient numbers that qualatative supremacywill be overcomeby quantative factors.

A total of 179, if it were true, would call into question the entire point of the Raptor. I'm assuming that 179 would give in the region of 100-120 airframes available for operations at any one time, assuming you only have to deploy to one theatre of operations. Now again these aircarft can't fly all the time, so perhaps you only have 40-60 in the air at any onetime. Not enough to tak on the PLAAF no matter how much more advanced the Raptor is.

IMO the Raptor is a hell of a machine, but unless the US actuallydoes get the 300-400 that are being talked about I wonder what actual impact it would have on any war where it would be used. Would you not be better off throwing 2500 F15's at the PLAAF rather than 1500 F15's and a 100 odd F22's?

Just a thought.

Badger.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Yes it would be bad if we were to get 179 Raptors however this is not going to happen as the current number stands at 339. But If you wanted to loose more pilots you would throw 2500 F-15's and by the way we don't even have 2500 F-15's.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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maybe it has something to do with having a very strong small force,

Just my thought Lets say we had 1000 F22 and say 1000 F-15 that 2000 aircraft for every 10 F-15 that shows up on an enemies radar there is more then likely gonna be 10 f22

So now lets reduce that number to 100 f22 and 1900 F-15 now were down to almost a 9-1 ratio while the Enemy is busy tracking 9 f-15 on his radar 1 F-22 has slipped by undetected where if it was a larger number of F-22 There very small radar return signature might stand out where as just one F-22 signature might be missed amongst 9 F-15

Probably doesnt make sense im tired and to lazy walk upstairs to my room



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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Hehe.. My comp's in my room!!



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