USA - the sleeping giant - about to WAKE UP!

The second post in this thread was along the idiotic lines of the opening post.
War is not the answer to the world's problems, neither is hatemongering.
Go back to your bunker and your stockpile of useless slaughtering weapons, you troll.

There are a few nations that can be considered sleeping giants: China, India, Russia, Japan, and the EU as a whole is probably the richest and most powerful block in the world, we are way to disorganised to be a big military power like the US at the moment though.
America will always be very powerful but i see it now as though the British empire was in the early 20th century when the US was in the position that China and India are in now. The US will remain no1 for a long time maybe 50yrs but it does not have the population to compete with China and India for the long run just as the UK was not big enough to remain the worlds no1 over 100yrs ago.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Yeah, that makes sense. They're our enemies simply because of 3 US Presidents. The reason they hate us so much is because of the repressive regimes which they live under. In order to distract them from the deplorable conditions that exist in their countries, and the lavish lifestyles that their unelected leaders are living, the government-controlled Arab media spreads hate propaganda aimed that the US and Israel. Sadly, it works incredibly well. They think that the US and Israel are the reason for every single problem of their's, from high unemployment to a bad case of diarhea.

Granted we have supported some of these leaders because it served our national interests and helped put cheap fuel in that beat up car of your's, but it is the people alone that are responsible for the leadership which they live under. There's more than enough of them to revolt. And if they really wanted to get rid if Israel, then the hundreds of millions of muslims and arabs could just start marching to Jerusalem and wipe them out.

Instead they'd rather believe crazy conspiracy theories and blame us for their plight. Thankfully because of the hard work of our military and the steadfast resolve of our President, Democracy is beginning to spread in the Middle East like wildwife. History will be much kinder to George W. Bush then any of you tree huggers. Just be thankful that our leaders and our military do not share your infection of moral cowardice.

Ok first, no need for the personal insult but hey insult away. I dont need people to tell me the meaning of "courage, valour, honour or morals" I found them out for myself and DIDNT have them drilled into my head.
Secondly, the arguement that they have enough people to do so is rather idiotic.
To start a "revolution" you need people who believe, the middle east has secret police in every walk of life. Why do you think no revolutions have begun?
By your arguement then the middle east would be in a major revolution and the US and china would be right in there with the suitcases of money and the truck loads of weapons.
They have thousands of people, their armies have thousands of people and frankly not everyone wants to become a martyr.
Thirdly those three presidents supplied weapons, money, training and intel to those leaders, helping them keep control and frankly keeping fear in power.
Democracy is in how many places in the middle east?
Not a large ammount if it was "spreading like wild fire" then why would be arming for iran?
Why would be arming isreal?

Not a large ammount if it was "spreading like wild fire" then why would be arming for iran?

I said its "beginning to spread like wildfire." [Mod Edit - Insult removed] I never claimed that the Middle East is filled with democracy, because it's certainly not. But Democratic movements are popping up more and more since the liberation of Iraq. The people of Lebanon are rising up against Syrian occupation. Elections have been or will be held soon in countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and so on. Anyone who expects to wake up tomorrow and find that the entire Middle East is free just isn't being realistic. There is no quick fix for this problem. It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of effort, and a lot of pressure from the US.

As for the "reason we're arming Israel"... Maybe because they're one of our biggest allies, and happen to be surrounded by a hundred million arabs who want to throw them into the Mediterranean. I think they could use all of the military support that we give them. As far as the amount of aid we give to countries such as Israel and even Egypt, I'm not very happy about. I think we spend far too much on Egypt and get far too little in return. I also think that with all the aid we give to Israel, they could do a little more sometimes to try and not escalate the situation with the Palestinians. Maybe that is starting to happen now with the pullout from Gaza and parts of the West Bank, with Israel getting absolutely nothing from the Palestinians in return for it. Never has such a thing happened before in history where one side has given up so much without there being any agreement or exchange made for it.

[edit on 17/4/05 by JAK]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I said its "beginning to spread like wildfire." I'll assume your dyslexic and not just an idiot. I never claimed that the Middle East is filled with democracy, because it's certainly not. But Democratic movements are popping up more and more since the liberation of Iraq. The people of Lebanon are rising up against Syrian occupation. Elections have been or will be held soon in countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and so on. Anyone who expects to wake up tomorrow and find that the entire Middle East is free just isn't being realistic. There is no quick fix for this problem. It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of effort, and a lot of pressure from the US.

I'll ignore the insults..again..
Also I never said it was full ethier, so dont know where the tangent is going with this but I can say that democratic movements and "beging to spread like wild fire" is diffrent.
I could easily say that racism is "begining to spread like wild fire in the US" because of the attitude towards terrorists.

Riseing against an occupation isnt democracy....its called fighting for freedom.
"will soon be held" how soon it "soon"?
20 years?
80?
100?

As for the "reason we're arming Israel"... Maybe because they're one of our biggest allies, and happen to be surrounded by a hundred million arabs who want to throw them into the Mediterranean. I think they could use all of the military support that we give them. As far as the amount of aid we give to countries such as Israel and even Egypt, I'm not very happy about. I think we spend far too much on Egypt and get far too little in return. I also think that with all the aid we give to Israel, they could do a little more sometimes to try and not escalate the situation with the Palestinians. Maybe that is starting to happen now with the pullout from Gaza and parts of the West Bank, with Israel getting absolutely nothing from the Palestinians in return for it. Never has such a thing happened before in history where one side has given up so much without there being any agreement or exchange made for it.

Firstly, lets get beyond the "thier our ally" part and get down to the straight buisness shall we?
If it was straight out of "being an ally" then why hasnt poland or iceland recieved so much tech?
If it was a simple, "your our ally" buisness we would probably have the patriot system.
Also you might want to remember that little "dictat" after WW1...no agreement was made.

I just heard Warff at his security station state "It is a good day to die."

If it was straight out of "being an ally" then why hasnt poland or iceland recieved so much tech?

You're kidding me, right? You honestly think the security situation in the state of Israel is comparable to that of Poland and Iceland? Is Poland at risk of an invasion from every country that it shares its boarder with? I don't think so.

The reason we arm Israel more than most allies is because they are under constant threat of attack from several of their neighboring countries, not to mention the terrorists launching attacks from the West Bank and Gaza.

But I suppose you haven't gotten to the Middle East part of the book in history class yet this year. So I'll just forgive the above statement and attribute it to a random act of [Mod Edit - Insult removed again]. Same goes for that guy with the Bush/Hitler avatar. It really cheapens the term "Nazi" and minimizes the evil they inflicted in the 30's and 40's.

[edit on 17/4/05 by JAK]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
You're kidding me, right? You honestly think the security situation in the state of Israel is comparable to that of Poland and Iceland? Is Poland at risk of an invasion from every country that it shares its boarder with? I don't think so.

The reason we arm Israel more than most allies is because they are under constant threat of attack from several of their neighboring countries, not to mention the terrorists launching attacks from the West Bank and Gaza.

Oh so its now about situations now is it?
Gone from "just ally" now to "situations" , what about poland?
Its sitting next to the "red menace" never know when they could strike.
or how about saudi arabia?
That's a "friendly" nation, why werent they being sold the weapons?

But I suppose you haven't gotten to the Middle East part of the book in history class yet this year. So I'll just forgive the above statement and attribute it to a random act of mental retardation. Same goes for that guy with the Bush/Hitler avatar. It really cheapens the term "Nazi" and minimizes the evil they inflicted in the 30's and 40's.

We arent covering that yet only versailles and the pre WW2 but I am trying to keep up best I can on my own. Hmm last doctors check up didnt say anything about mental retardation hmm ah I'll take your word for it doc, who better to trust a man with a degree of some random guy off the net.
They really didnt do anything evil pre 1920's hell and even then that was late 20's, they didnt really do anything bad pre 1945 thanks to the allies.
Unless your telling me they still exist?

Originally posted by Rasputin13It's sad, its pathetic, and its weak. I'd go as far as to even say its treasonous. Publicly endorsing the death of American soldiers and citizens is a crime against our nation.

Treason? It would have been just 20 short years ago.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I'm thankful that those who make statements like those which I have quoted have thus far been unsuccessful in their campaign to destroy this nation and everything that it stands for. You'd think that after being on the wrong side of history for the last half a century that they might wake up and realize that we need to identify evil and confront evil, rather than waiting until Republicans defeat it and then finally agree that it was evil. They have always and will continue to be on the wrong side of history and we all should hope that we continue to disregard their advice of pacification and retreat.

Again that was awesome and I read it again!

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I just cannot understand the very people who claim to be on the side of human rights do everything they can to give a free pass to murderous tyrants like Saddam. The hundreds of thousands of men, women and CHILDREN that are being found every week in mass graves should be reason enough for you left wingers to take a stand.

But they fail to acknowledge this fact, they think it is in 'style' and 'hip' to hate Bush and the war in Iraq, irregardless of the reasons behind it.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Instead they'd rather believe crazy conspiracy theories and blame us for their plight. Thankfully because of the hard work of our military and the steadfast resolve of our President, Democracy is beginning to spread in the Middle East like wildwife. History will be much kinder to George W. Bush then any of you tree huggers. Just be thankful that our leaders and our military do not share your infection of moral cowardice.

Again, may I kindly shout AWESOME! And spot on!

Originally posted by Rasputin13I'm sorry, but anyone who compares Bush to Hitler is an idiot. It just nullifies the murder of 6 million Jews. Your avatar also nullifies any comments you make, regardless of their validity.

Bush compared to Hitler, it shows you the caliber of the folks you are dealing with. How they have selective memories and choose to ride the wave of anti-Americanism.


Rasputin13 - Keep in mind that Devilwasp is young yet and green behind the ears, nothing bad about that but you must take it into account. the result of modern politically correct teachings and to hell with the truth. He is a nice kid, just has a narrowminded view at his age is all.

Because I'm young doesnt mean I'm "green behind the ears" and definately not narrow minded, if I was narrow minded would I not put you on ignore and just throw away all your views since you are afterall "the right" and I'm "the left"

I just heard Warff at his security station state "It is a good day to die."

Huh? Not sure what you're trying to say there.
Personally I can't come up with any rational way to compare Bush with Hitler. Say what you will about Bush - love him or hate him, but he is no Hitler for crying out loud.

Yep. I would agree with you macuser. Bush and Hitler? Are you kidding me? Not even close.

IMHO, we are still sleeping.

Thanks to the "sissies", pacifists, liberals, dope-smoking-flower waving hippies (yeah, they're making a comeback), and the likes of of more than 50% of the members here at ATS.

I agree with you though. The United States and it's true citizens (not the ones mentioned above) is giong to get fed up with how the world treats us (unprovoked attacks) and they will regret they disturbed "this peace-loving giant" from it's sleep.

If you can find me any ten-year period between 1945 and now where the US has not bombed or invaded any country who didn't attack us first, the "sleeping giant" BS might have a tiny little tidbit of credibility. Hell find me a five year period - hint, there actually is one. One.

By any standard one can name, the US is the most militarily agressive nation on Earth, and has been for sixty years. Saying this is not "anti-Americanism," it is simply a statement of fact. The ones who are truly "anti-American" are those who have turned this country, once the bright light of freedom in the world, from a peaceful and democratic Republic to a brutal and murderous empire.



[edit on 20-4-2005 by xmotex]

You Americans think you are sooo free, because you have cable-television and junk-food resturants - but all you really are is a name and number on a tax-bill, a name and number in some data-base... That is all... You are consumers, fueling your own stupidity by not standing up to the powers that be...

I DO NOT hate AMERICANS...
I hate your GOVERNMENT...
I hate your FORIEGN POLICIES...
I hate your EDUCATION SYSTEM...
I hate the RACISM still evident in your country...
I hate your advanced Capitalism and IMPERIALISM...
I hate what your country does to smaller THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES...
AND ABOVE ALL I HATE YOUR LATHARGIC APPROACH TO DEALING WITH THOSE PROBLEMS!!!

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I can add this: To everyone that hates us REAL Americans: Do you really think I give one damn if you all hate me or not?

Argh! ...

The thing that gets me is that your relate everything that is spoken against your country - as a personal attack on you! I love Americans, Americans have so much potential, BUT NOT UNDER YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM...

When I say things like I HATE AMERICAN POLICIES... Every Patriotic American takes it as if I hate them...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to kill incocent civilians for Oil, and call it collatoral-damage...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to torture prisoners in Guantannamo Bay until they are tortured guilty...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to become an over-grown parasite on 3rd World Countries...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to be racist against blacks in your country...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to have the highest crime rates in the world...

So your telling me its AMERICAN - to be the most unhealthy First-World country on earth...

SURELY THIS IS NOT WHAT GEORGE WASHINGTON WANTED AMERICA TO BECOME!!!

[edit on 20-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]

Man it sux being the only world super power, so much hate and jealousy for America.... I'm sure glad i'm a Texan...

Originally posted by JoeTex
Man it sux being the only world super power, so much hate and jealousy for America.... I'm sure glad i'm a Texan...

.....are you acting like a troll for any reason or just for fun?

I would cease with the ever increasing use of the word troll.
It's use seems to be increasingly growing.




seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
I would cease with the ever increasing use of the word troll.
It's use seems to be increasingly growing.

When he makes a post like that I can only post the apropriate response....that post is designed to get an agressive response....

You don't understand why it is that when you say you "hate America" that us Americans take it personally. You'll never understand it until you are a true American. We take it personally because we ARE America. We are the greatest nation on God's green Earth. Hey, it ain't braggin if you're tellin the truth!!!

We take it so personally because we have seen firsthand all of the opportunity and greatness that America affords us. This country does more to see its people prosper than any other. Sure, we're not perfect. No country is, was or ever will be perfect. Democracy may not be the best system out there. It's just the best one we've implemented so far.

The bottom line is that there isn't a country in this world that doesn't wish it was America. We are a great country with great things for one simple reason: us and our ancestors WORKED for it. This world is what you make of it. There's not too many other countries in the world where people crawl through 50 miles of desert to get to it. There's not too many other countries in the world where people will float on a tire through 100 miles of rough seas to get to. There's a reason for that....