Macuser - You are a typical example of everything that is wrong with America today. Should we be surprised that there are psychotic people in your country who walk in to a Mc Donald's or a school and begin shooting at everything that moves in cold blood, when there are so many people like you around in the U.S.? What made you so violent and hateful? Did your parents abuse you? Was your father a Vietnam vet who took out all his frustrations on you? Or is it just that you are one of millions of victims of an increasingly violent, bizarre and corrupt culture originating in the U.S. and like an octopus spreading its long and vicious arms around the globe?

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Siroos]

I only read the first page of this thread, but that was more than enough to get me sick. While I admire the original poster's patriotism, he is obviously misguided. It would be stupid to pull all of our troops that are stationed around the world back to the US. We don't need Russia, China, or any other world power that doesn't share our interests, moving troops into the regions we were previously based in. The last thing we need to do is give rival nations the opportunity to spread their power, influence, and corrupt ideology to the nations of the world that require our protection. I don't think I need to even address the nuclear weapons issue, as anyone can see how obsurd and inhumane it would be to use nuclear weapons at this stage in our war on terror.

Now to the self-hating Americans who are actually trying to justify the terrorists' reasoning for flying commercial airliners into civilian targets... You should be ashamed of yourselves. Regardless of our foreign policy, we have never purposly targeted Arab or Muslim civilians in such a brutal fashion. There is no justifiable reason for intentionally killing thousands of innocent men, women and children who are not themselves engaged in any conflict. Those of you who sympathise with the murderers who carried out the 9/11 attack and are hoping for an encore should be left alone in an NYC firehouse for a few minutes with a crew of 9/11 heroes and a rubber hose.

Furthermore, it is pathetic that anyone would mock or question the behavior or performance of our men and women in uniform. They are putting their lives on the line not only to defend this nation and your rights and freedoms, but also to provide those very rights and freedoms to people whom they don't even know. The bravory, honor and valor that our armed forces display on a daily basis is far greater than anything any of you self-loathing Americans have done or ever will do in your lifetimes.

To question the intentions of our government and our military, not only in Iraq or Afghanistan, but even in Vietnam, is sad. Regardless of the mistakes made, no country and no group of men and women in the history of this world have ever sacrificed more for the safety and freedom of others. To put your life on the line so that a young girl who you will never even meet can have the opportunity to cast a vote in an election or go to school is something I cannot even fathom. How anyone would mock or question the integrity of these people is a disgrace to the millions of soldiers who have paid the ultimate price so that others after them could live better lives. Just because a few tanks or helicopters had "666" written on them does not take away from the noble mission which they are on. I doubt 666 even means anything in Islam.

I'm sorry but just knowing someone who died on 9/11 and knowing people who have gone off to foreign lands with their lives in danger, it sickens me when I read the liberal propaganda that some people spew on here.

Rasputin, what are you talking about? Out of curiosity, I just re-read the first page and couldn't find the abundant liberal propaganda you are referring to.

I personally find the original post lacking in logic and content, but that certainly doesn't make me liberal, for one.

Right on Rasputin!!! Damn your one of the best writers in this 3-ring circus.



Max

Originally posted by Siroos
Macuser - You are a typical example of everything that is wrong with America today. Should we be surprised that there are psychotic people in your country who walk in to a Mc Donald's or a school and begin shooting at everything that moves in cold blood, when there are so many people like you around in the U.S.? What made you so violent and hateful? Did your parents abuse you? Was your father a Vietnam vet who took out all his frustrations on you? Or is it just that you are one of millions of victims of an increasingly violent, bizarre and corrupt culture originating in the U.S. and like an octopus spreading its long and vicious arms around the globe?

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Siroos]

Comments such as that are very mocking, do u wish to push him over the edge or help him?

Originally posted by colin_hal

You believe that if some country happens to attack the US, then that gives them the right to annihiliate that country.
I am so glad that people like you aren't in power.

Are you so sure though that people like him are not in power....?

Rasputin, what are you talking about? Out of curiosity, I just re-read the first page and couldn't find the abundant liberal propaganda you are referring to.

Comments such as this...

I can only hope that young men in other countries attacked by the US will develop the same guts that he has and wil launch an assault against the US that's just as intense as the one he wants to launch on them.

and this...

Protected from what? the Iraqi's weapons of mass distruction? Ya, those horrible insurgents killing individuals that stormed their country with "666" on the sides of the Tanks and Helicopters, blasting Heavy Metal music... what kind of person wants to be protected by individuals such as that.

and even this...

When America stops 'bullying' people aroung, then you'll see a day when 'terrorists' don't give a damn anymore.

Just to quote a few. Wishing an assault on the US and its citizens just because one guy comes on here and feels that we should use every means at our disposal to confront the evil which we are facing. Validating the attacks by insurgents on US troops simply because a handful may have painted three numbers on the side of their vehicles which mean absolutely nothing to the Iraqis or the foreign fighters. Siding with those who are conducting an illegal guerilla campaign and using terrorist tactics to kill our men and women in uniform simply because some of them prefer listening to heavy metal while they're at work. The blaming of America's foreign policy for the attacks such as those on 9/11, instead of the MURDERERS who actually carried them out. These are the statements to which I was referring.

Normally they are disheartening. But at a time when hundreds of thousands of men and women are on the other side of the globe, fighting and dying to protect the freedom of dopes such as those above, makes it a million times worse. Even if you disagree with the war. Even if you despise George Bush... how can you put your head to the pillow at night knowing that you condone and hope for the death of our soldiers who are simply doing their job? For all you know, they may be just as against this war as you are. But they actually stand for something and put duty and their responsibility to their nation and their family and friends above all else.

It's sad, its pathetic, and its weak. I'd go as far as to even say its treasonous. Publicly endorsing the death of American soldiers and citizens is a crime against our nation. Just make sure you guys thank the millions who have died to give you your free speech when you pray tonight. Oh! Thats right! You don't pray, because you're the same people who feel that GOD and religion are a bigger threat to this nation than the suicide bombers who are blowing us up! "Under God" in the pleadge of allegiance is more dangerous to you than an Iranian nuclear weapons program! Now I'm not mocking those who aren't Christian or those who have no belief in any higher power at all, I'm just mocking those who need to get their priorities in order.

I'm thankful that those who make statements like those which I have quoted have thus far been unsuccessful in their campaign to destroy this nation and everything that it stands for. You'd think that after being on the wrong side of history for the last half a century that they might wake up and realize that we need to identify evil and confront evil, rather than waiting until Republicans defeat it and then finally agree that it was evil. It's the ideology of those above that opposed our entrance into WW2 and the defeat of Nazi totalitarianism, the confrontation and defeat of the Soviet Communist empire and its stranglehold on Eastern Europe, and the very war which we wage today against terror. They have always and will continue to be on the wrong side of history and we all should hope that we continue to disregard their advice of pacification and retreat.

So, yes, as you can all see some people have done a good job of hitting a nerve or two of mine! LOL

Originally posted by Rasputin13

Now to the self-hating Americans who are actually trying to justify the terrorists' reasoning for flying commercial airliners into civilian targets... You should be ashamed of yourselves. Regardless of our foreign policy, we have never purposly targeted Arab or Muslim civilians in such a brutal fashion. There is no justifiable reason for intentionally killing thousands of innocent men, women and children who are not themselves engaged in any conflict. Those of you who sympathise with the murderers who carried out the 9/11 attack and are hoping for an encore should be left alone in an NYC firehouse for a few minutes with a crew of 9/11 heroes and a rubber hose.

It sometimes seems that us "self-hating Americans" are the only Americans who understand that the supposed suicide pilots have no aircraft carriers or MOABs or countless fighters and bombers and missiles to attack their perceived enemies with.

They're not simply "jealous of our freedom" as our filthy rich leaders like to chant. They're probably fed up with our continuous meddling in their affairs as well. They can't hope to challenge their perceived enemy on the battlefield, so they must resort to other means. We might resort to similar means if we found ourselves up against an infinitely more powerful enemy.

I agree that their methods are sickening, but how can we expect them to just surrender to what they perceive to be ruthless conquerors?

Someone else in the discussion said "If we are directly attacked, then I support war, using any and all means necessary to get the job done." I agree with this, but I'm not blind enough to think our enemy is any less determined to defend themselves.

Most of us "self-hating Americans" are simply concerned and kind of embarrased at our leaders' behavior lately.

I pretty much agree with the remainder of your post though.

are one of millions of victims of an increasingly violent, bizarre and corrupt culture originating in the U.S. and like an octopus spreading its long and vicious arms around the globe?

I am I.

Like I've said before, and no doubt will say again, it's about high time someone conquered the world so we can end this infernal and erroneous nationalistic bickering.

Whether it be the United States, the Muslim Nation, or the Illuminati (or all three combined, which it seems to be), so be it. Whatever it is...

In the grand scale of time, whoever wins eventually loses anyway. I just wish it could be all about the human race as a whole instead of the 'American race' or the 'Muslim faith' or the 'Sino-Korean Hegemony', or what have you.

I read in the thread people expressing concerns over the health and welfare of the planet. I agree that we should be better stewards of our home, and one day we definitely will, but not until we become better stewards of ourselves and our families. The Earth can, and will take care of herself. We need not be so concerned about her because as a living organism, she is much more capable of healing and creating than we are of destroying.

No worries here, mate.

Macuser and other posters who share his thoughts forget that the U.S. is run by international businessmen intent on continuing international business. Capitalism in its current form is global. If the U.S. cut off the rest of the world now, it would shrink and die faster than it currently is by its current alienating of the world by having such ugly foreign policy. The U.S. and those who run it love its porous borders that allow cheap labor to get into the country. Our leaders could never truly back away from the rest of the world or they stand to lose everything they have. The one thing they can do is lie and use force upon the population to goad them into accepting things as they are.

All the saber rattling that the U.S. is doing now would fade instantly if the international community began putting embargoes on the nation in reaction to its extremism.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

In the grand scale of time, whoever wins eventually loses anyway. I just wish it could be all about the human race as a whole instead of the 'American race' or the 'Muslim faith' or the 'Sino-Korean Hegemony', or what have you.

Now we're talkin'.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
To question the intentions of our government and our military, not only in Iraq or Afghanistan, but even in Vietnam, is sad.

I agree with alot of what you posted, especially regarding our fellow Americans who seemingly side with anybody they think is opposing us, regardless if they even have an understanding of who they are siding with. And I also am sickened by those who seem to want our soldiers to die. But I must disagree with you when it comes to questioning our government, we should ALWAYS question, to great lengths, the motivations for sending our soldiers to their deaths. How can you claim to care about those in the military, but at the same time not be bothered with making sure they're not being used as pawns in a less than noble venture? I know America has been on the right side many times in the past, but we have also been wrong from time to time as well. History will tell which way we go in these times. But, IMO, those who are sending our troops into battle today are not the great republicans that once were, they are 100% corporate whores. Both Bush AND Cheney actively avoided serving their country in a time of war, while the way they did was not illegal, but should they be in a position to send kids less fortunate to war? I don't think so. But despite my contempt for our current leaders, our enemies are far worse, and even though I think Iraq was the wrong move against our enemies, our troops have my full respect and well wishes, and may not one more lose his/her life.

As for the "sleeping giant" waking up, when did it go back to sleep?

[edit on 15-4-2005 by 27jd]

Doesn't this CRAP belong in the Politics forum (if anywhere). Besides, it's really a duplicate anyway. We have dozens of dumbass "Nukem all" threads anyway.

Where DO you people come from anyway? I've reading for 3 years and posting for 2 and I remember when there was actually intelligent discussion on ATS. Now someone says something stupid, inflamatory, or just plain evil and everyone jumps in and starts flaming each other. This is why it makes me want to vomit when ever I come here. Why not go Freerepublic.com or some political site like that if you want to do this? Leave ATS alone.

Mods, admins, whoever.... There probably is no hope for salvaging ATS, but if there is, something needs to be done NOW.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by MacuserI don't want war at all frankly, however if someone wages war on the US, then the US should do EVERYTHING to end the conflict quickly. No more Vietnams or Iraqs.

Those are two good examples of countries you went to war with even though they did not attack you.

They are justified in launching the same no-holds-barred attack against the US in response to your attack on them.

...I agree...

...frankly, if I woke tomorrow to hear news that somebody set off a mini-nuke in downtown LA or something...I don't know if I'd be shocked more because: a)the loss of life...or b)it took so long before someone did it...

It wouldn't surprise me...and honestly a part of me would be thinking: "Oh well...kick peoples butt, sooner or later someone whose butts been kicked is gonna come back and whip yours big time in a big way"

"Sleeping?"

I don't know if you've noticed, but we bomb or invade someone new every couple years.

We haven't been "sleeping" since before WW2.

I would say we're more "wildly lashing out" than "sleeping"...

Originally posted by Macuser

Oh please. Talk is cheap, and any little cowardly person can come onto a forum and talk tough, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Yep, talk is cheap, and any body can talk tough. Some people like to hide behind the veil of being PC, while others see the problems, and speak outwardly of their views. I've never been PC, I say what is on my mind whether you want to hear it or not. I stand behind what I said.

Welcome, but let me warn you, you are outnumbered by the tulipwalkers in here by 10-1. They are the 'peacenicks' of the 60's with fresh paint. They didn't understand the concept of containment then nor do they now.

I like you feel that we need to attack with a fury unlike never before if the US is attacked again. Nukes would not be nessesary. As for Europe, let them stand on their own, as they can afford it now. I am tired of paying for their defense anyway. By this I mean Germany and France mainly.

Thanks ed next time you need young scots lads to die in place of your marines just ask, we'll be happy to do so.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I'm sorry but just knowing someone who died on 9/11 and knowing people who have gone off to foreign lands with their lives in danger, it sickens me when I read the liberal propaganda that some people spew on here.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
It's sad, its pathetic, and its weak. I'd go as far as to even say its treasonous. Publicly endorsing the death of American soldiers and citizens is a crime against our nation. Just make sure you guys thank the millions who have died to give you your free speech when you pray tonight. Oh! Thats right! You don't pray, because you're the same people who feel that GOD and religion are a bigger threat to this nation than the suicide bombers who are blowing us up! "Under God" in the pleadge of allegiance is more dangerous to you than an Iranian nuclear weapons program! Now I'm not mocking those who aren't Christian or those who have no belief in any higher power at all, I'm just mocking those who need to get their priorities in order.

Holy Sheep # Batman that was awesome! Both posts!





Especially this one:

Originally posted by Rasputin13
They have always and will continue to be on the wrong side of history and we all should hope that we continue to disregard their advice of pacification and retreat.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by edsinger]