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Why no disclosure?

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posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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I’m a new user here, so this may or may not have been openly discussed before. I see that there is currently a couple of active threads talking about disclosure, but I feel that this belongs seperate. For the record, I consider myself a skeptical believer. I do believe there’s something going on that the government isn’t telling us in regards to extraterrestrials, whether they are ET’s or as some have proposed, some species from here on Earth that we have openly discovered yet. I believe Gaz has made an exceedingly great case on Roswell here in the past few weeks, and that in particular has caused me to start this thread. Fair warning: this may get somewhat lengthy.

My question, as stated in the subject line, is why no disclosure? Why haven’t people taken some sort of major step to get everything out into the open? I don’t feel as it is going too far to say that

1) There is something massive going on behind the scenes that involves some unpublicized species and/or extremely advanced technology that would put Intel and Texas Instruments to shame.
2) Public acknowledgement of point 1 would have the most profound effect on our society.

I would also like to extend the opinion that, for better or worse, disclosure of whatever might be going on behind the scenes is something that human civilization needs to go through. Would improve our quality of life immediately or would it cause mass hysteria and panic? I can’t say, and I truly don’t think anyone could until it actually happened. This is something the likes of which have never happened before—say what you will about Europeans coming to the Americas, I don’t think that is big enough to justify a direct correlation. I do know that it would undermine many, many of our beliefs as a society, but that might not be a bad thing. Without going too far on a sociological tangent, that may be exactly what we would need to improve our treatment of each other on this planet. That’s not a digression I wish to get into at this point though.

I see two major, generalized truths to back up any movement for disclosure. One, there is a ton of documented cases, photographs, video tapes, and other physical evidence. Even disregarding the ones that have been completely debunked, and even those that are questionable to even the staunchest believer, there still remains enough data to sink a small fleet.

Second, given the number of admitted believers, witnesses, and researchers, one would think that there would be enough of a backing to get this information into the mass media somehow. I mean serious attention—not an 11 pm to 4 am talkshow on AM radio, not a special report that pokes fun at the idea, and not one of the countless collection of witnesses and debunkers that generally ends with the phrase “Is there anything out there? Who knows?”

So what’s holding us back? What’s keeping the believers from getting together and saying “We’re madder than hell and we’re not gonna take it anymore”? From what I’ve observed, there’s a small handful of reasons.

First, lack of whole organization. There’s so many “cliques” in the realm of belief that it’s hard to congregate on any one topic. There’s those who stand by the fact that these reports are completely spiritual. Warnings from God, the angels, demons, whatever. There’s people who say that everything that’s going on is from our kind X number of years into the future. There’s people who say that it’s all from this one race who is starting a galactic war with this race. Would it be too much to ask for us all to just agree that there is something going on that is being held back from us, regardless of what it is? In working with something like that, I feel that we might be able to stick together long enough to get some answers. I know that there are several organizations, such as MUFON and the Disclosure project, that are dedicated to researching and exposing this material, but I haven’t seen much along the lines of a dedicated front.

Second, fear of sounding crazy. No one wants to think they’re losing it. We don’t want to lose the respect of the other people in our community—bosses, friends, family, etc. And we’ve been told since the introduction of mass media that reports of this nature are strictly for fancy and best left to science fiction stories. Quite frankly I’m in league with the conspiracy theorists on this one: I feel the government has been filling our heads with this so we don’t go out and start trying to pull the curtain up on everything. One person believes something different, they’re crazy. 10 people and it’s a cult. But 100’s and 1000’s and people start to notice a little more. Eventually the ball starts rolling along and with enough people backing it up it starts to seem less and less crazy to everyone else.

Third, fear of physical harm. There’s many reports of people being threatened by the government, and many reports of people going missing or having “accidents.” I think that this is probably the best way the government can keep this thing under wraps, playing on this fear. Think back to 9/11. The plane that crashed over Pennsylvania. I know there’s all sorts of conspiracy theories on that one, but for this discussion let’s drop those for right now and take the publicized story on that—even if it is just a story, it’s worth noting. There were five armed men who took control of the plane. There were 45 people on board (if I remember correctly). What would you do now, after 9/11, seeing 5 guys armed with box cutters or other weapons try to take over the plane you were on? Most likely you’d rush them and try and stop them. Yeah, they might take one or two people out, but it’s better than taking the whole plane down. Granted, the US government has a little more than a box cutter, and there’s more than just five of them. But at the same time, how could they take out an extremely large number of people without anyone noticing? What if 100K people filed their reports with CNN or ABC or something like that, all at once, just flooded them with emails, letters, phone calls, etc., asking for a serious report into everything and giving them sources to look into like ATS or the Disclosure Project? Could the government take out all 100K without that giving more credence to the story?

I’d really like some input here on something that could be done. I think 50+ years is far too long to be kept in the dark, and I think it’s time that we the people, not just of the US but of the world, start to do something about it.




posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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I agree. I do think there is far too much division and even fear amongst believers. There's so much disagreement on things like how many different species of aliens there are, or what they're doing here (being friendly, hostile, or something else), that no one takes the time to agree that even though we might not all believe the same exact thing, there is obviously something being kept from us all that someone doesn't want us all to know about. Who's to say that the government isn't the one giving us so many things to disagree on in the first place?

I would definitely like to see everyone come together to do whatever it takes to get disclosure, even if that means marching right up the White House front door.

I'd be there for sure.

[edit on 14-4-2005 by CloudlessKnight]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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I can understand the government--US mainly, but I'm sure there's others--not wanting to let the information out because it definitely can be used for military purposes. I came to terms with that a long time ago--not so much they don't want us to know, they just don't want them (ie the Russians, Iraqis, North Koreans, whoever the baddie of the week is) to know. But at the same time, if all of these happenings are caused by some new race of people, then I truly believe the public needs to know about it regardless of the political consequences. Something like that should exceed national boundaries; that's something for all human kind and not just for the Americans, the British, the French, the Peruvians, who ever.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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Re-reading my original post, I can see that I never really did ask my question. I'm really curious about what the members here think about this. Why hasn't there been a strong surface movement to get this stuff out in the open? I'll go ahead and give a couple ideas of my own to get things started.

Although in my opinion the least likely, perhaps there really isn't anything to all the conspiracy theories and the government is as much in the dark as we are with maybe one or two isolated incidents like Roswell. Maybe they are telling us the truth. I don't really believe that too much, but it's a possibility nonetheless.

What I really think is that, for a lot of people, this has become almost a religion. We don't really want to know the truth because that will take all the "faith" out of it. There won't be anymore conspiracy theories for us to talk about, no more trying to decide if this picture is real or that video is fake; we'll know what exactly there is to look for. It'd be like finding out that everyone has a gold vein in their back yard--flood the market and it's worthless. No one would get the same attention--good or bad, it's still attention--by saying "I saw this little grey guy sneaking in my room last night". Everyone would look at him and say "Yeah, you just didn't look at their schedule; after your house they went to Bob's and then mine." That's my opinion. Any others?



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by MCory1

What I really think is that, for a lot of people, this has become almost a religion. We don't really want to know the truth because that will take all the "faith" out of it. There won't be anymore conspiracy theories for us to talk about, no more trying to decide if this picture is real or that video is fake; we'll know what exactly there is to look for. It'd be like finding out that everyone has a gold vein in their back yard--flood the market and it's worthless. No one would get the same attention--good or bad, it's still attention--by saying "I saw this little grey guy sneaking in my room last night". Everyone would look at him and say "Yeah, you just didn't look at their schedule; after your house they went to Bob's and then mine." That's my opinion. Any others?


You hit the nail on the head,

All the alien internet sites, books, magazines, movies, the government conspiracy industry----all would collapse.

We need intrigue in our lives-----once the puzzle has been solved its no fun anymore.

Aliens are real, they are all around us----enjoy not knowing for sure----while you still can.

Eventually those who don't know----will know.

However, that’s when the real fun begins.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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from sleeper
Aliens are real, they are all around us----enjoy not knowing for sure----while you still can.

Eventually those who don't know----will know.

However, that’s when the real fun begins.


yes i'd agree that the real fun begins with disclosure, but also would add that i'd rather be getting ready for it--it's the wise move really since so-called wise ETs are interacting directly now with ordinary individuals, not the government elites like it used to be the last 50 years with their technologically advanced but not morally or ethically based ETs they used to be able to sneak around with.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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And am wondering whether, Alien(s) or ET's in general are thee ONES responsible for not disclosing the issue. They are at the crux of the issue anyways. We want confirmation, but they won't give it to us.

Perhaps though they are disclosing themselves... just in a gradual way.

We need to know, but they will decide what is presented to us and in what form.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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It seems the tone of the idea of "Disclosure," is so embraced with thoughts of Time Magazine, Rolling Stone, and at last even Fox News at last telling us that UFOs are real.

But that is absurd, there is zero chance that anything these publications will tell you is but an unabashed lie. Oh in the past major news outlets built their reputation by sprinkling in some truth, but nowadays they even botch the "human interest," trivia.

Hey I have enough proof through my own eyes and experience, so I do not need an imprimatur from Time Magazine. Honestly I do not care if football fans finally can scratch their heads and say "good golly there's space aliens ma, I wonder if they can help the cowboys reach the superbowl."

Such an event is way beyond the current needs the the merchantile system, one based upon artificial scarcity. You can guarantee that the quest for disclosure is now, and will be in the future only a sidebar to the general trend toward feudalism propelled by all the advanced technology 12 corporations in the world can muster. I am sad to say, but Mengele styled aliens who put people in dentists chairs without anesthesia, whose primary mission is also to induce amnesia in their clients, is in no way the panacea of disclosure. Oh self defense maybe, but corporate America and the world does not want any possibility for panic unless they control the panic and profit from it.

[edit on 14-4-2005 by SkipShipman]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by w1kdtr1p
And am wondering whether, Alien(s) or ET's in general are thee ONES responsible for not disclosing the issue. They are at the crux of the issue anyways. We want confirmation, but they won't give it to us.



Absolutely, the aliens hold all the cards-----no government can stop them from showing themselves----but they are not going to disrupt our economy, religious beliefs, and the foundations of what we believe our history to be-----that would be traumatic and chaotic-----they will do it slowly for our benefit-----how slowly depends how long it takes to establish a foot hold in space.

Perhaps sooner, but I doubt it.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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who needs discloser anyway.I know aliens are here ,i know the government is keeping it under wraps.MY advice to all is to be ready in ur own mind and dont wait for big brother to hold ur hand
.
GET OFF THE COUCH AND GET READY TO LISTEN TO UR INNERSELF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:11 AM
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Well, disclosure or not, I bet I'd get along better with Aliens than with Humanity. I would just love to have civilized chats over tea with aliens.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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I think you all are making very valid points. Although I would just love to see the headlines in the New York Times or USA Today say "THEY'RE HERE", I don't think that we'll see it. At least not anytime soon. Either because nobody really wants it to happen contrary to how they act or because all of us greedy capitalist pigs won't profit from it anymore
. That's an aspect that I hadn't considered.

While w1kdtr1p has a good point--and that's a good elaboration too sleeper--the ball isn't necessarily in their court. We could do something about it ourselves if we really tried. So, strictly for the sake of discussion, anyone want to be an armchair quarterback and throw out some reasonable ideas on how to get the ball rolling? How many people do you think would be necessary to "blow the top off of it?" What would be the best strategy--full fledged revolution with a militia storming the capitol? Flood CNN's email inbox? Have 3,000 people walk up to the gates of Groom Lake and chain themselves to the gaurd post? Everyone meet up at the Mall of America and meditate for 3 days? It'll probably never happen, but as I said, just for discussion's sake.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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Just google on the "Brookings report", and you'll see exactly why no disclosure.


Before we could even ballpark accurately predict WHY though, we've got to know their agenda. Whatever their agenda (and what we know of it), is going to be the cornerstone of why to disclose and how.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Just google on the "Brookings report", and you'll see exactly why no disclosure.


Before we could even ballpark accurately predict WHY though, we've got to know their agenda. Whatever their agenda (and what we know of it), is going to be the cornerstone of why to disclose and how.


I agree, knowing their(ET's) agenda is important, but how do we go about understanding this, when the information we receive can only be disseminated from them? And so far they are purposely being vague, ie. We are here to help you... but how?

As for the Brookings report:
www.enterprisemission.com...

The text was difficult to read, grainy blurred mess at times, but I think I got most of it. I believe that NASA is being used by ET's in order to suppress or disqualify any attempts to reveal that contact has been made. This is just a delay, at least until humans(with the aid of ET's) can set camp on the Moon and Mars. They'll (NASA) say and act in ways other than directly on the subject of advanced ET's.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Gaz,
I checked out that report (the version I saw was only two pages, found at www.enterprisemission.com...). It seems to state the same ideas I've read in various sci-fi stories and have seen in other reports. The main points I got from it were that our leadership--governments, dictators, whatever--would possibly take extraterrestrial life as a threat and would try to establish whether it is something they can use to their advantage or not. If they could use it, then they would release it and play off of it; if not (ie it would undermine their authority?) then they'd sit on it as long as possible. Am I too far off base?

If I'm not off base, then the obvious conclusion is since there hasn't been a major disclosure, they can't seem to find a way to turn it to their advantage. That's one angle that could be used: find a way that it--at least superficially--benefits authority figures. And it could be used to rationalize why some material has leaked out over the years.

Many claim that a lot of our modern technology has stemmed from alien contact; I'm going to say that's true for this (although it can be argued one way or the other). The "leak" of the CD player or the microprocessor has taken our civilization--and therefore our authority figures; we let them ride along sometimes--to heights no one before seriously imagined. Leaking out minor, unsubstantiable details about aliens and their craft has made many otherwise respectable people lose credibility, thereby giving the "insanity defense" when others come forth and claim they were abducted or saw an army of greys land at the mall. That may be a bit of a leap in logic, but hopefully anyone reading this can fill in the blanks I've missed.

Honestly I take reports such as the one by Brooking with a small grain of salt. Granted, most of these reports are by people who've made a life study of society and psychology, so I'm sure they are better suited to the task than most people (especially me). However, even as Brooking states (bottom of pg. 215, 7th link at bottom of URL above), we've never been in a situation of such magnitude and it is difficult to predict how human kind would react one way or the other. Society may crumble. Politics would definitely take on a new role. But we won't know until it happens.

My guess is that, without outside intervention (ie by the public at large), the only way the federal authorities will disclose their information is if there comes a time when, for whatever reason, there's no way they can keep it under wraps. An invasion of some kind would be the most likely scenario for that, although I can't state the plausibility of such a scenario without knowing what kind of personalities we may be dealing with. I don't think that Bush (or whomever may be President at the time) would come out under a peaceful situation and say "Yep, we've been lying to you for the past 50-60 years."



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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My key point in mentioning Brookings is that the government convened a panel to discuss the ramifications of disclosing alien existence. That panel made a recommendation NOT to disclose it, for reasons similar to how an isolated tribe, when first being contacted by modern society, then loses almost all of it's identity and culture in adopting the new ways, etc. This kind of impact was something to be avoided...to say nothing of the economic consequences of rendering certain industries obselete overnight with the introduction of new tech, nor the social and employment ramifications of it. Also, of course what does this then mean to the legitimacy of world governments in relation to extra-terrestrial ones, etc. There are a TON of reasons not to disclose, and they heavily outway the reasons for disclosure, so the secrecy of it shouldn't really be all too surprising.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by MCory1
While w1kdtr1p has a good point--and that's a good elaboration too sleeper--the ball isn't necessarily in their court. We could do something about it ourselves if we really tried. So, strictly for the sake of discussion, anyone want to be an armchair quarterback and throw out some reasonable ideas on how to get the ball rolling?


I'm not sure how to respond to this but I'll get back to you once I've thought it through a little.




posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 11:16 AM
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First off, and I don't want to sound like I'm taking what you said out of context Gaz, but would it be too far to imagine the reason the even convened the panel would be because they had something to disclose and needed to make the choice? Just a thought that has probably been debated to death many times already.

And those are very valid points as to why the government would not disclose anything on its own. But how could the general population cause disclosure if we were so inclined? How could someone get the ball rolling? I mean, often it seems that most discussion is kind of like going into a bar and complaining about your boss to your buddies. You're not going to accomplish anything, you're basically just venting and looking for agreement. Even the "organized" groups that are trying to get petitions going seem to be little more than the equivalent of a person standing in front of Wal-Mart trying to get people to sign a petition to get smoking banned (or have a ban revoked). There seems to be extraordinarily little cohesiveness between and agressiveness of all the organizations that are trying to get this stuff out in the public eye.

I didn't realize how much information was out there on this subject until I found this site. I mean, I've read a few magazines over the years, caught ever special on TV that I could find, and bought quite a few books on the subject. But just going through a handful of pages here on ATS there's tons of stuff I never came across. Granted, much of it--even some of the stuff that is considered to be irrefutable--may be false or misinterpreted. But there's tons of what, when compiled together, create an exceptionally strong picture of deceit on the part of the government as well as strengthen any ideas of government involvement with paranormal entities be they ET's, interdiminsional beings, or earth-based species the general public isn't aware of. And seeing all of this information, gigabytes of data that could be used to oust this vast conspiracy that most everyone seems to agree exists, seeing this information just sitting around without anyone taking it anywhere boggles my mind.

Is that what all of this research is about? Just so we all can sit around, have a couple of beers and complain? I'm sorry to go off on such a tangent, but that's one thing that I always heard was one of the things that made America so great: if you don't like something, then you can do something to change it. I don't see why all of this information isn't being compiled and thrown out en masse to the media and to other people who can make it widely known.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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I'm still going to be one of those people that believes something is going on whether the matter is disclosed or not. But I would still like some disclosure. It's like when your big brother reaches over and smacks you behind your parent's back... you know he did it, but you want him to fess up to it so he'll get in trouble. We already know Big Brother is up to something, we just want them to admit it already and take responsibility for their actions.

Whatever the cultural, religious, or economic shock that will ensue after disclosure, I still think it's a necessary step that we all need to take. After all, if truths from disclosure would change the things that people believe, wouldn't it be wrong to let people continue to believe the lies that they put on themselves?

A lot of people don't want disclosure, they just want to be comfortable. These are the self-proclaimed "simple folk." Those with the attitudes of "If I can't see it then it can't hurt me" that just want to go to work in the morning then come home in their nice cars to their pretty house and their pretty lawns. Of course, these are the same kind of people that like to pretend that so many third world countries aren't living in poverty, that people do not die every day from starvation, that children never get kidnapped or abused, that women never get raped, and the list goes on...

Personally, I think that in order to better ourselves, some comforts (such as materialistic ideals and religious views that hold man high on a pedistle of superiority) must be sacrificed. I think it's the sacrifices that come with disclosure that people aren't willing to risk.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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I completely agree CloudlessKnight; I couldn't have said it better myself. And there will always be some kind of conspiracy to try and oust. That's just how humans are--if you're hiding something I want to know, and if you're not hiding something, I'll pretend you are so I can have something I want to know.

I reiterate two of my previous questions, with mild elaboration:

1) Is all of this research some combination of finding something to complain about mixed in with possibly some type of 12-step program for people who have had encounters of some kind? Or is everyone truly wanting to get this stuff out in the open and just not knowing how to get it done?

2) For discussion's sake, what would be a reasonable way to achieve disclosure of whatever this phenomena may be? Anybody at all, just throw something out to think over.

One other thing I was thinking about is that most of the reports that say mankind isn't ready for this information are associated with the government. And now that we've been told that for so long, wouldn't it stand to reason that we're starting to believe it ourselves, whether it's really true or not? Just a thought...



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