The Hard Truth Of September Eleventh.

``

continued lack of reliable information gathering and sharing in the intelligence community.

"The collection of intelligence, and even its analysis,
is not worth much if it's not able to be translated into a realistic threat assessment that provide guidance for the application of resources designed to prevent terrorism", Thornburgh said.

~~~

a closed culture in the intell community, in which only 'approved, recognized sources' were deemed 'credible',
counter-intelligence & counter-terrorist specialists were essentially window-dressing positions, understaffed and under-utilized, underfunded... ( 'X-Files' personified?)

There are plenty of instances, incl the 1995 tip letter to PhoenixFBI, telling of witnessing 6 young Arab men taking Flight School at N Scottsdale airpark
and reports of another group of young mid-eastern men taking flight school at Mesa airport......with a suggestion that many schools might be used for training 'zealot' pilots to be used for commandeering aircraft into targets!

evidently that 'tip' sat around for 6 years, until Agent Williams sent the 'Phoenix Memo', just right before the Sep 11th event!
~~~~~

the article & Quote
....behind all the razzle-dazzle, it's just more of the same old snafu....
ed to shorten link

[edit on 25-6-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by St Udio
``

continued lack of reliable information gathering and sharing in the intelligence community.

~~~


evidently that 'tip' sat around for 6 years, until Agent Williams sent the 'Phoenix Memo', just right before the Sep 11th event!
~~~~~

oh yeah....here's a followup, which came out in all the major news outlets
today (10 June)...just 3days after my above post !!

Excerpt from a NY Times article "Report Details F.B.I.'s Failure on 2 Hijackers"

....The report provides new information about the bureau's mishandling of a warning from an agent in Phoenix in July 2001 about Middle Eastern extremists connected to Osama bin Laden using American schools to receive aviation training....


The F.B.I.'s cumbersome computer system - still beset by problems today -
did not automatically forward the agent's memorandum to bureau officials who were supposed to receive copies of it, the report found.

Those agents who did see the warning did not have time to follow it up,
or disregarded it because felt the presence of Middle Eastern flight students was already commonly known.

The agents were also concerned that racial profiling had become so 'hot' an issue that they cound not pursue the Phoenix agents suspicions, according to the report.

For Sure!! by 2001, when the Phoenix Electronic Communication, i.e. 'memo', became ensnarled in the bureaucratic morass
of 'share-able' information....there had been 6 years of input from various sources that- should have - pointed to Middle-Eastern, young men taking pilot training !!!....

also...back in 1995, when a 'tip letter' was sent to the Phoenix FBI field office...there sure wasn't any profiling or privacy concerns about young Arab zealots, who were in training to be a cadre of pilots, with a future ulterior mission!!............the FBI never coordinated with any (scanty, bare bones) counter-terror or counter-intelligence departments, they never contacted the Special Agent who was requested in the 'tip letter' either!

source of excerpts

[edit on 10-6-2005 by St Udio]

ed to shorten link

[edit on 25-6-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

what are you talking about? I thought 9/11 was to obtain oil.

The USA is too strong for them to get hit like that

Originally posted by goose
but no one wanted to open an investigation, don't you recall the families had to fight to even get an investigation going?

I think the comission investigating the attacks was far from being fought over to get things off the ground. I went to college at Drew University. Our university president, Tom Kean was the chair of the comission investigating 9/11.
The attacks happened at the start of my freshman year, Kean joined as chair at the start of my sophomore year. (There was someone else who I can't remember) that preceded him in the timeframe who ultimately stepped down thus making Kean available for position of chair.
But just look at the sheer size of their report, even if no one had preceeded Kean as chair a year of data analysis and the like is nothing in the long run pace of things.

You can play devils advocate if you wish on this issue, but I'll end with this
I don't trust the office of the president, nor do I trust congress.
But I do trust Tom Kean and that is the soul reason I don't buy into the conspiracy stories. I sat in at office hours with him, discussed the comission, at a campus wide event he told students how he would have to be let into records rooms with a guard at the door, where all he could do is write notes on a yellow pad, but not even be allowed to take the yellow pad with him out of the room. People like him are the only republicans I would vote for and make me believe that not everyone in politics is corrupt. (he's also a really cool guy he even came to hear me perform at my solo concerts and knew me personally by name.)

[edit on 16-6-2005 by carlwfbird]

Quote: "I thought 9/11 was to obtain Oil."

You are confusing the Strike/Attack against the U.S.A. on 9/11 with our Administrations Retaliatory
"War on Terror" = War on the Middle East & "Arab Moslems" Globally (I know that not all Arab Moslems are "Terrorists" but you have a TERRIBLE Image Problem right now & it is being Exploited).

I can understand how you got them confused - the Administration has been Blurring the line for about 4 & 1/2 years now - Using their Failure on the Former to justify the Latter!


[edit on 17-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

the real reason for the 'wizard of oz' 911 reality television show was to justify the upcoming TRILLION dollar budgets for starwars, and the ensuing 'skynet' automated totalitarian lockdown.

Here's some interesting stuff that I'm not sure why it's overlooked;

9/11
Around 4:15 9/11 -

After President Bush leaves his video conference, other top leaders continue to discuss what steps to take. Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke asks what to do about al-Qaeda, assuming they are behind the attacks. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage states, “Look, we told the Taliban in no uncertain terms that if this happened, it's their (butt). No difference between the Taliban and al-Qaeda now. They both go down.” Regarding Pakistan, the Taliban's patrons, Armitage says, “Tell them to get out of the way. We have to eliminate the sanctuary.”

So, they had a clue that something like this was going to happen? They trusted the Taliban not to allow al-Qaeda to go through with it??

Bush that night:

Bush says, “Tell the Taliban We're finished with them.” [Washington Post, 1/27/02] He goes on to say, “I want you all to understand that we are at war and we will stay at war until this is done. Nothing else matters. Everything is available for the pursuit of this war. Any barriers in your way, they're gone. Any money you need, you have it. This is our only agenda.” When Rumsfeld points out that international law only allows force to prevent future attacks and not for retribution, Bush yells, “No. I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some (butt).” [Clarke, 2004, pp 23-24]

So apparently we had a deal with the Taliban to prevent something like this, maybe? Any deal was probably set up from the previous administration.

Throwing out a theory:
Some time after the embassy bombings, I'm sure we gathered enough intel to conclude that al Q would probably target the mainland US next. When we bombed that training camp in Afghanistan (in retaliation for the embassy bombings) that's probably when we set up any deals with the Taliban.
You keep them in check, we'll.....allow you to live?
Knowing what we know now, I'm sure they probably wish they were more aggressive.
Of course all that info would have been shared with the next admin. Bush or Gore. The question is did the next admin (Bush) take any of that info seriously? Did they think that there was really a threat?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Bush that night:

Bush says, “Tell the Taliban We're finished with them.” [Washington Post, 1/27/02] He goes on to say, “I want you all to understand that we are at war and we will stay at war until this is done. Nothing else matters. Everything is available for the pursuit of this war. Any barriers in your way, they're gone. Any money you need, you have it. This is our only agenda.” When Rumsfeld points out that international law only allows force to prevent future attacks and not for retribution, Bush yells, “No. I don't care what the international lawyers say, we are going to kick some (butt).” [Clarke, 2004, pp 23-24]

So apparently we had a deal with the Taliban to prevent something like this, maybe? Any deal was probably set up from the previous administration.

From what I understand is that Bush told the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden. The Taliban stated that for them to do that they would have to give hard proof Bin Laden had something remotely to do with 9/11.

In response to that Bush waged war on them and well we know the rest.

Originally posted by spliff4020
Recently I've been involved in some "discussions" on here pertaining to 9/11 conpiricies. I, myself, am skepitcal. For this I've been labled and idiot, sheep and everything else. I used to scream and yell about it but as of late, I just read the posts and move on.

What is your opinion on the towers falling? Do you believe that the burning aircraft fuel weakened the support structures and allowed for this "pancake" effect? I have seen countless videos of the towers coming down, I see no pancake effect, I see what looks like a controlled demolition. WTC building 7, also a controlled demolition. Ask any NYC firefighter what they think really happened that morning. Are you aware that a US Air Force bomber crashed into the upper floors of the Empire State Building in 1945, causing a fire and damage to 3 floors. At no time was that much older building at risk of freefalling at the speed of gravity...

Originally posted by CyberSEAL

Originally posted by spliff4020
Recently I've been involved in some "discussions" on here pertaining to 9/11 conpiricies. I, myself, am skepitcal. For this I've been labled and idiot, sheep and everything else. I used to scream and yell about it but as of late, I just read the posts and move on.

What is your opinion on the towers falling? Do you believe that the burning aircraft fuel weakened the support structures and allowed for this "pancake" effect? I have seen countless videos of the towers coming down, I see no pancake effect, I see what looks like a controlled demolition. WTC building 7, also a controlled demolition. Ask any NYC firefighter what they think really happened that morning. Are you aware that a US Air Force bomber crashed into the upper floors of the Empire State Building in 1945, causing a fire and damage to 3 floors. At no time was that much older building at risk of freefalling at the speed of gravity...

the plane you talk about crashing into the Empire State Building, was a small craft. Not some B-52. And honestly, yes. I think the fuel weakened the structure enough to collapse it. 7 fell only after burning for hours and hours. Also, a critical support was SEVERLY damaged on the initial fall from the towers. Combine that with deisel burning for hours, and no attempt to save it, yes...its going to fall.

If you think our own government fell these buildings, ask yourself, why. Why would they? To start a war with Iraq? Where you been these last 15 years? Oil? Doesnt make any sense. Gain valuable realestate? Puhlease. There just isnt a reason for it.

I think the main crime our officals are guilty of is falling asleep at the wheel.

New article to support WTC controlled demolition. Haven't read it yet. Tell me what you think :

WTC Basement Blast Victim Destroys Bush's 911 Story

'Ya know what I think is the underlying reason that people on here still seem to think that 9/11 was the NWO/corporations/Bush/inside job/etc. is one simple thing:

They are scared of the truth. The truth is that there is a real enemy, and instead of acknowledging that, they would like to hide behind their "facts" of an "inside job" and that "nothing can do to prevent it".

Ya know what that sounds like? An excuse not to fight the real enemy. Yes, those who wage this "war on terror" have made blunt mistakes. They have made it blurry. But the truth is almost never completely clear.

Let us remember that.

Spliff, I commend you. Though it seems simplistic, I must say to you, you have summed up (leaving out details and things that would take much too long to type) what 9/11 was. 9/11 was something that should've never happened. The U.S. made a mistake, reaped its effects, and now is making those who harmed us pay.

-wD

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Spliff, I commend you. Though it seems simplistic, I must say to you, you have summed up (leaving out details and things that would take much too long to type) what 9/11 was. 9/11 was something that should've never happened. The U.S. made a mistake, reaped its effects, and now is making those who harmed us pay.

-wD

so, the nineteen alleged highjackers and their immediate and ultimate bosses have 'paid', have they? okay, whatever you see through your reality beergoggles must be the truth.

yeah, and let's keep those pesky 'details' out of the discussion. details are such a liberal lefty thing, who needs 'em.

here's the real truth of 911:
the towers fell.
the pentagon was smashed.
planes disappeared one way or another.
george bush saw it on tv before it was on tv.
every single agency responsible for preventing this kind of thing was either asleep at the wheel or doing a simulation of the exact same terrorist hijack scenario at the time of the attack, or ordered to stand down(this includes intelligence agencies tracking 'al-queda' MONTHS before the attack).
eyewitness and video accounts and evidence have been destroyed, confiscated and/or ignored.
the bin laden family were flown out of the country during a period of time where NOONE was allowed to fly.
no GOOD evidence has linked bin laden to the attack. it was in fact, denied outright by him. the video 'evidence' is an obvious fake to people who know him personally, and also to people who have taken the initiative to compare the fakeladen with the real one.
fill in your own here(there are hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of them)....________________________. .


since when do terrorists NOT take credit for their terrorism? that's the whole point of terrorism. to scare people into doing what you want them to do. if you don't tell them what you want, you've COMPLETELY WASTED all your horrific terror expertise.


anyway, nobody wants details, or even obvious truths. let's just go with the media brainwashing flow and be happy with our lot, yeah? and let's kill some of them DAMN MUSLIMS!

Quote: "anyway, nobody wants details, or even obvious Truths. Let's just go with the Media BrainWashing Flow and be happy with our lot... and let's kill some of them DAMN MUSLIMS!"

Well said - I am still Shocked by America's RE-ACTION to 9/11 (and the total inability to learn anything from it) as much as by the Despicable Attack itself!

Oh Holy Government - Save us from the Cursed Terrorists! Yes we Love your "Patriot Act" - take our Rights & Liberties away from us in the name of "Freedom"!

Why is the Government always Perceived to be the "Good Guys"? Why is the Government never Questioned? Why is it totally Inconceivable that the Middle Easterners are being PROVOKED into Frenzy!

All I know is that I find the Governments Incompetence & Ineptitude - Before & After 9/11 - to be MADDENING!

If I were to believe our President - they Hate us for our "Freedom". I believe that Terrorism is a Reaction to Corruption that only causes more Injustice & Repression!