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posted on May, 8 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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The Illuminati Order is a Sovereign, Independent and paramasonic order, founded in Barcelona, Spain, 1995 by Grand Master Gabriel López de Rojas. It recovers the Tradition and the Rite of Bavarian Illuminated of Adam Weishaupt and assumes the Initiation System named Redism.

www.ordeniluminati.com...

Hardly the 'real' thing - but take a look.




posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Senrak are you really a notorious Freemason?

If so, why?


LOL! That's a "title" if you will that several of my Masonic Brothers gave me during Allied Masonic Degrees week in Washington DC because of the writing that I've done pertaining to Freemasonry and some of the connections I've made across the country and in a few other countries in doing so.

Soon after my first article was published in a major Masonic publication I was attending the DC meetings, walked into the Hotel Washington lobby and was met by a few of my friends (whom I only see once or twice a year at such meetings) one said, "Look it's the famous Brother ..." the second one laughed and said "No, INFAMOUS" and the third said..."Well, I don't know about famous or infamous, but he's certainly Notorious" The name stuck.



[edit on 8-5-2005 by senrak]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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I wonder if there even IS such thing as the Illuminati. I mean, has anyone any proof of their existance? Hmmm....



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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ok and how come you're 32nd degree Mason?

I think you said something about it a while ago about it not being an "official" 32nd degree or something.

AM I right in saying that you are 32nd degree in the Knight Templar "sect" and not the Scottish Rite?

32nd degree is just oner under the highest masonic degree



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
I wonder if there even IS such thing as the Illuminati. I mean, has anyone any proof of their existance? Hmmm....


Not that I know of but the thing is is that even if they dont exist, it dosent render the whole "theory" of a small elite group controlling the world and pulling strings and manipulating events to bring in a New World Order global fascist dictatorship useless.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
ok and how come you're 32nd degree Mason?


Because I petitioned for membership in the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite

www.srmason-sj.org...

and received it's degrees, 4th - 32nd inclusive. I was later elected a Knight Commander of the Court of Honour (a special "honor" for 32nd Degree Masons who've worked hard for Freemasonry in general, the Scottish Rite in particular and for the community in general) I say "honor" because it's not a degree per se, but is similar in it's structure to one. In otherwords it's not "higher" (I hate to use that terminology but for the sake of explaining the hierarchy of the Scottish Rite...) degree than the 32nd but few 32nd Degree Masons ever receive it.



I think you said something about it a while ago about it not being an "official" 32nd degree or something.


No. I never said that. I am an official 32nd Degree (Master of the Royal Secret is the title of that degree in the U.S.A.'s Southern Jurisdiction...the title is different in the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction...it's Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret) and, as said above, I'm a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor. We refer to such members as Bro. JOHN DOE, 32* K.C.C.H.



AM I right in saying that you are 32nd degree in the Knight Templar "sect" and not the Scottish Rite?


No. First, it's not a "sect" it's a "Rite" in Masonic terminology. The Knight Templar Degree (or rather "Order") is part of the York Rite of Freemasonry. Those degrees (Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master....etc. etc. up to and including Knight Templar) are not referred to by a "number" like those of the Scottish Rite. I DO, however, belong to the York Rite as well and I AM a Knight Templar of that Rite.



32nd degree is just oner under the highest masonic degree


It's just under the "highest" degree of the Scottish Rite sytem (See the link I posted or this one)

www.mastermason.com...

The Supreme Council (which controls ALL the degrees (4-33) of the Scottish Rite. However the conferral of the 4th-32nd is left to local Scottish Rite Lodges (called "Valleys") The election of 33rds is vested soley in the Supreme Council, however. From the KCCH's the 33rds are chosen, but to hold the KCCH is not a guarantee that one will ever become a 33rd.

Clear as mud?
Sorry...it really gets complicated because the various "bodies" of Freemasonry are somewhat autonymous, but they all rest firmly on the foundation of the Master Mason (Third Degree) and can be suspended by the Grand Master of a given state at any given time for the right reasons.

(edited for spelling)



[edit on 8-5-2005 by senrak]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
ok and how come you're 32nd degree Mason?

I think you said something about it a while ago about it not being an "official" 32nd degree or something.

AM I right in saying that you are 32nd degree in the Knight Templar "sect" and not the Scottish Rite?

32nd degree is just oner under the highest masonic degree


Actually the HIGHEST masonic degree is the 97th. That is of the Memphis Rite. It's not a regular masonic branch, but it does exist. You see, after your 3rd degree, there is nothing higher because all other degrees are APPENDANT degrees. Meaning they are "in addition to" your 3rd degree.

Senrak is a 32nd degree mason, and also a Knight Commander Court of Honor, which is a special honor bestowed to Scottish Rite (32nd degree) masons. By the way, when a mason joins the Scottish Rite, he is automatically given his 32nd degree... you don't work your way up. So ALL Scottish Rite masons are either 32nd degree, or 33rd degree if they have been awarded that degree for honorary service.

But if I were to join the Memphis Rite, and become a 97th degree mason, would that make me "higher ranking" than Senrak? Am I, only a Master Mason, suboordinate to SenraK? Lower ranking? Absolutely not. We are both Master Masons. He just has some additional degrees from other branches of Freemasonry that he joined. I am not a member of those branches. But EVERY MASON MUST TAKE HIS FIRST THREE CRAFT DEGREES. THAT is regular masonry. Everything else is just an addition.


[edit on 8-5-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Appendant in the Encarta dictionary:

1. attachment: something that is attached or added to something larger or more important

Would you say that covers it?



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Appendant in the Encarta dictionary:

1. attachment: something that is attached or added to something larger or more important

Would you say that covers it?


That pretty much sums it up. Of course THESE guys will never buy it, seeing as how I am obligated to lie about Freemasonry to non-masons. :bnghd:



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Appendant in the Encarta dictionary:

1. attachment: something that is attached or added to something larger or more important

Would you say that covers it?


Yep! For groups like the three York Rite bodies, the four Scottish Rite bodies, etc. Other groups like the Shriners, Order of the Eastern Star, etc. are considered "Concordant" They're not attached TO the Symbolic Lodge but membership is drawn FROM it or in connection with it. In other words they (unlike the York & Scottish Rites, Royal Order of Scotland, Allied Masonic Degrees, etc) do not confer "Masonic Degrees" but they confer degrees of their Orders upon Freemasons (and in the case of the Eastern Star, Order of Amaranth, Ancient Toltec Rite, etc. upon close female relatives OF Master Masons as well...)



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Are Masons helping the advance of the New World Order by influencing local state and borough governments and councils?



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Are Masons helping the advance of the New World Order by influencing local state and borough governments and councils?


No. They are not.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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So how come nearly every man in any position of power in the UK is a Mason?

Even on the borough-council level there are Masons pulling the strings.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
So how come nearly every man in any position of power in the UK is a Mason?

Even on the borough-council level there are Masons pulling the strings.


What do you base that on? Have you heard that from "every man in a position of power"? If not, it's hearsay.

Besides..Masons are leaders. We're supposed to care about the community and our fellow man. Is it any surprise that such people rise to power in communities?

Sure...some do it for corrupt reasons. ...and some of those currupt people are Masons (sadly) but they're not supposed to do that sort of thing for personal gain.

So you see, it's not conspiracy...it's just natural that men like that would be active in the community and in government. Masons are "builders" not destroyers.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
I wonder if there even IS such thing as the Illuminati. I mean, has anyone any proof of their existance? Hmmm....


nobody can prove that the human mind exists, or that music is anything more than noise. You cant prove the existence of an all supreme creator, or that aliens do in fact exist. Just because something cant be proven doesnt mean it doesnt exist. If it is proof that you want, then the illuminati is not meant for you.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
So how come nearly every man in any position of power in the UK is a Mason?

Even on the borough-council level there are Masons pulling the strings.


I'd LOVE to see you show me proof of your claim above. The fact of the matter is that Freemasonry appeals to a certain kind of person. But just because they are Freemasons in their private lives means NOTHING about their public office. We are taught that our jobs, faith and family all come before Freemasonry, and that can be easily found in the ritual. So why does it matter?

If most of the officials are Catholic, does that mean that the church controls the Parliament? That's a stupid assumption, and you know it Drivel.



[edit on 8-5-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Annunaki
nobody can prove that the human mind exists, or that music is anything more than noise. You cant prove the existence of an all supreme creator, or that aliens do in fact exist. Just because something cant be proven doesnt mean it doesnt exist. If it is proof that you want, then the illuminati is not meant for you.


That's a silly thing to say. If somrething exists, there is proof of it. Nothing exists without leaving a trace. NOTHING. You are basically admitting to me that your belief in the Illuminati requires no concrete evidence, and that it's based solely on faith. Like religion. That's as ignorant as it comes.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
So how come nearly every man in any position of power in the UK is a Mason?



Are you merely repeating conspiracy theories inanely or do you know for a fact that to be true?
I know for a fact that it is false.

Less than 10 serving MPs are Freemasons. Less than 5% of the judiciary are Freemasons. Even an anti-mason like Steven Knight had to concede the point you made - and that's even after he tried to prove the opposite.

Of course, it all depends on what you mean by "position of power". If you mean just regular guys doing regular jobs then maybe you're onto something. But if you're talking about the idiots who run this country, you're in as much of a dreamworld as they are. Freemasons don't tend to hold high powered public sector jobs as previous (and present) governments and councils have actively campaigned against them.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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How do you know the Masons that are in positions of power like bankers and stuff dont secretly receive orders from the worshipal master of his lodge and in-turn, the worshipal master mason gets his orders from the supreme council of the scottish rite and in-turn, they get their order from a higher force such as the Illuminati?

"Worshipal Master Mason this is the supreme council of the scottish rite of freemasonry. Your orders are to get an apprpriate Mason of your lodge to pressure the local council into accepting the flue jab to be compulsory in school and this jab contains many cancers"

Worshipal master: "Understood"

Worshipal master: "Brother John Doe, this is your worshipal master. your orders are to influence your local council into accepting the flue jab to be compulsory in all schools around the area"

John Doe: "Understood Worshipal Master"

As you can see, it would be very easy to do.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
How do you know the Masons that are in positions of power like bankers and stuff dont secretly receive orders from the worshipal master of his lodge and in-turn, the worshipal master mason gets his orders from the supreme council of the scottish rite and in-turn, they get their order from a higher force such as the Illuminati?


Because that is NOT what Freemasonry does! Orders like what? What interest would the Master of a lodge have in someone else's business. This is an absurd question! NOBODY GIVES OR TAKES ORDERS IN FREEMASONRY. It is not a military or operative organization!

And by the way, masons are under NO obligation to take orders FROM ANYONE in Freemasonry. So a Master of a lodge coming to me and telling me to do something within my job is downright LAUGHABLE.

The Master of my lodge has NO authority over me whatsoever. Nobody in Freemasonry does. He has authority over the lodge's business ONLY. You really need to understand that Freemasonry is a BROTHERHOOD. Nobody is suboordinate to anyone.

:bnghd:


[edit on 8-5-2005 by sebatwerk]



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