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Work is for saps!

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Most of our lives are spent chasing the carrot on the stick, but are we
happier? In such an age of supposedly high technology and labor saving devices,
why is unskilled manual labor so much higher than it would be in a more
primitive society?

Well, in this article, Bob Black proposes a world without work, a
"ludic" world, with everything centered around sex and leisure time, as
opposed to the 9-5 grind.


No one should ever work.

Work is the source of nearly all the misery in the world. Almost any
evil you'd care to name comes from working or from living in a world
designed for work. In order to stop suffering, we have to stop working.



But modern work has worse implications. People don't just work,
they have "jobs." One person does one productive task all the time on an
or-else basis. Even if the task has a quantum of intrinsic interest (as
increasingly many jobs don't) the monotony of its obligatory exclusivity
drains its ludic potential. A "job" that might engage the energies of
some people, for a reasonably limited time, for the fun of it, is just a
burden on those who have to do it for forty hours a week with no say in
how it should be done, for the profit of owners who contribute nothing
to the project, and with no opportunity for sharing tasks or spreading
the work among those who actually have to do it. This is the real world
of work: a world of bureaucratic blundering, of sexual harassment and
discrimination, of bonehead bosses exploiting and scapegoating their
subordinates who -- by any rational-technical criteria -- should be
calling the shots. But capitalism in the real world subordinates the
rational maximization of productivity and profit to the exigencies of
organizational control.




Let's pretend for a moment that work doesn't turn people into
stultified submissives. Let's pretend, in defiance of any plausible
psychology and the ideology of its boosters, that it has no effect on
the formation of character. And let's pretend that work isn't as boring
and tiring and humiliating as we all know it really is. Even then, work
would *still* make a mockery of all humanistic and democratic
aspirations, just because it usurps so much of our time. Socrates said
that manual laborers make bad friends and bad citizens because they have
no time to fulfill the responsibilities of friendship and citizenship.
He was right. Because of work, no matter what we do we keep looking at
out watches. The only thing "free" about so-called free time is that it
doesn't cost the boss anything. Free time is mostly devoted to getting
ready for work, going to work, returning from work, and recovering from
work. Free time is a euphemism for the peculiar way labor as a factor of
production not only transports itself at its own expense to and from the
workplace but assumes primary responsibility for its own maintenance and
repair. Coal and steel don't do that. Lathes and typewriters don't do
that. But workers do. No wonder Edward G. Robinson in one of his
gangster movies exclaimed, "Work is for saps!"




I don't suggest that most work is salvageable in this way. But
then most work isn't worth trying to save. Only a small and diminishing
fraction of work serves any useful purpose independent of the defense
and reproduction of the work-system and its political and legal
appendages. Twenty years ago, Paul and Percival Goodman estimated that
just five percent of the work then being done -- presumably the figure,
if accurate, is lower now -- would satisfy our minimal needs for food,
clothing, and shelter. Theirs was only an educated guess but the main
point is quite clear: directly or indirectly, most work serves the
unproductive purposes of commerce or social control. Right off the bat
we can liberate tens of millions of salesmen, soldiers, managers, cops,
stockbrokers, clergymen, bankers, lawyers, teachers, landlords, security
guards, ad-men and everyone who works for them. There is a snowball
effect since every time you idle some bigshot you liberate his flunkeys
and underlings also. Thus the economy *implodes*.


Full article here:

www.primitivism.com...

Though totally inconceivable, the thought of such a utopic society is
enticing. Some of Bobby's arguments are completely ridiculous, and some...well some make a bit of sense.

What do you think?

[edit on 13-4-2005 by coronamoz for broken link]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by coronamoz]




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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I wont disagree with that. Send me the money. I'll be out by the pool sipping Margaritas.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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why is unskilled manual labor so much higher than it would be in a more primitive society?



Cause we have more people to provide for...supply and demand brotherman...that sums it all up.

Hmm, I don't disagree...sounds like the idea life for me...
But infortuneatly it's not



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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who will put out the fires, drive the ambulance, chase the crooks, keep the pharmacy stocked with rx, etc etc etc......good samaritans ?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by coronamoz
everything centered around sex and leisure time.


Meh.. all that sex would turn into work after awhile.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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People need to work. Everyone needs a role in society otherwise society would fall. Who's gonna drive the taxi so you can go into town? Who is going to open the shop so you can buy food? Who is going to handle your finances so you can pay for the food? Who is going to grow the food for you? Who's going to deliver it to the shop so you can buy it?

By removing responsibility from a task or tasks, you would have utter chaos. What if I wanted to buy a car? I goto the dealership, oh, look, it's closed cos the owner is off surfing. Hmm ok, I'll just ring the manufacturer. Nope, wait, no-one there either, they decided to sleep in today. Ok, well I'll just buy this 2nd hand car that needs work. Now, where do I get the parts. Oh well look, there aren't any parts, because Jimbo Jones honestly can't be bothered spending all day in a factory banging out parts for no particular reason. Oh well, I guess I'll walk, barefoot of course, because who the hell wants to spend all day in a sweatshop churning out shoes @ $0.50 a piece?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by LordGoofus
People need to work. Everyone needs a role in society otherwise society would fall. Who's gonna drive the taxi so you can go into town?


While I don't quite disagree, there is a bit of circular argument here.

A lot of what we do goes into the support of the work-based system. In many cases, you take the cab (in your example) because the subway has stopped (rain and all) and you are late for work.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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You just described Native American economics. I'm on board. Where do we sign up? BTW, many workers aren't saps, just exploited because they have been stripped of all power.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:38 PM
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The fulfilment you get through collective effort to achieve some greater good probably feels better for most people than the fulfilment you get through overfilling your stomach or packing your head with trash.

But it is greed and injustice that gets in the way of enjoyment of work where there is rampant inequality and classism.

Most of the world's population cannot evaluate an equation that compares the value of their labor as an opportunity cost agaoinst their leisure time, as they are in subsistence mode. While you sit on your backsides and post about it, spare some thought for sweatshop laborers and padi field workers and beggars who have cut off a limb or two in the hope of getting more alms.

Oh. I will too.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by LordGoofus
People need to work. Everyone needs a role in society otherwise society would fall. Who's gonna drive the taxi so you can go into town? Who is going to open the shop so you can buy food? Who is going to handle your finances so you can pay for the food? Who is going to grow the food for you? Who's going to deliver it to the shop so you can buy it?


Well, I believe Mr. Black suggested a complete deconstruction of society as we know it, eliminating the necessity for things like cabs, processed foods, and other various paper pushing enterprises.

Though for all its worth to us now, it seems little more than a work of fiction. Sorry Mr. Black.

[edit on 13-4-2005 by coronamoz]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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Work is for saps. Besides, crime pays!



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:28 AM
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i would love that! lol

i could sit at home and play video games all day

we can get robots to build stuff for us by then
oh ya and who will program the video games for me?


the programmers!
alot of them actually love their jobs

come on guys what job is better than messing around with video games all day anyways?

lol

i really think that the System would be FINE; if only we could get rid of Rich Greedy Corrupt Heartless people
"The Boss" or "The Man"

i Hate working for some scumbag whos chillin at home gettin drunk
while i and everyone else; breaks our backs and Wastes our LIVES for "the boss" to get Rich while we barely make ends meet

and they wonder why terrorists are psycho
Duh
its because the 'leaders' are just greedy selfish scumbags



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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what if you step on a sea shell at the beach in between orgies and cocktails ? who would stitch the wound ?

what if you get a lady pregnant ? who would deliver the baby ?

what if you get an STD ? where do you get your anti-biotics ?

what if you get hungery at the beach ?

what if you need work done on your mansion ?

etc
etc


work stinks for most of us, but until the internet revolutionizes things to where most people tele-commute, we're stuck with it

work stinks for most of us,



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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In my opinion this argument is using "work" as something done in an "or else" mode while under managerial surveillance. Also with no real form of input on how to make a job more efficient or easier or safer. My two sense.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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All the time there are people willing to go down coal mines, sweep the streets, empty bins,
work at the sewage plants, provide electricity etc. I would be willing to put in the effort to earn my place in society.

To me the problem is that the people I've listed are under-valued. Without some of them we'd all be up to our necks in filth.

They are the people who should be able to demand a decent wage and proper housing as a reward for their efforts. It's a great shame that they are not rewarded as well as, let's say lawyers, accountant or estate agents. Or bankers grrrrr.

It's a shame too that they are near the bottom of the heap socially.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by berenike]



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