Actually, believe it or not, it was the French that helped the Israelis get their nuke program going. And nobody is going to give Taiwan the bomb, that would be crazy.

Originally posted by xmotex
Actually, believe it or not, it was the French that helped the Israelis get their nuke program going. And nobody is going to give Taiwan the bomb, that would be crazy.

Really? I didn't know that at all.

Though i'am not surprised, the French have they own way of doing things.

Originally posted by xmotex
Actually, believe it or not, it was the French that helped the Israelis get their nuke program going. And nobody is going to give Taiwan the bomb, that would be crazy.

No , it was the usa - several weapons found there way over there.

I think Israelis developed their nukes alone, they had good scientists. South Africa and other countries did it alone. Even Sadam was possibly able to make his own nuke (and he would do it but Israelis bombed Osirak reactor). It's not too dificult, the only think you need is to obtain enough material. Basically all you need is nuclear reactor able to produce plutonium.

No, it was France that helped the Israelis develop their nuclear program.
Also I don't think it would be crazy I think it would be interesting to say the least. China won't invade because they know they would be nuked.

Do you think that escolating a possible conflict from conventual warfare into a nuclear exchange as interesting?!

Are you crackers!

- Phil

Originally posted by gooseuk
Do you think that escolating a possible conflict from conventual warfare into a nuclear exchange as interesting?!

Are you crackers!

Or no conflict at all. Nukes are the best peacemakers, I think.

The Issue with China and Taiwan, are that they don't think like us westerners, pride to them and face means every thing, if they lose face to the rest of the world, they have have lost altogether.

Giving Taiwan nuclear materials or weapons would in my mind merely force China to make a move that would result in the very least a large loss of life and at the other side of the scale, a full scale exchange.

- Phil

Not that I support Taiwan to have nukes, but...

basically you are saying is that in the event of war or loss face, if Taiwan doesn't have nuke then China won't use nuke and if Taiwan has nuke then China will use nuke...?

Very counter intuitive but possible.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by twchang]

Lol

In my opinion Yes, thats the point that I am trying to get across, America has nukes, so does britain, neither choose to use them when they proceeded into iraq, due to the fact that they didn't have them... ok that bit is still smoke and mirrors but if in my view, taiwan doesn't have nukes, I feel that china will use her conventual forces, but if she is threatened with a nuke threat, I feel that the situation would get worse.

- Phil

But if your theory is true, wouldn't China use nuke anyways in the event of loss face whether or not Taiwan or US has nukes?

I don't feel that china would employ nukes on a nation that itself didn't employ the same level of military might in relation to the weapons that that nation could employ, eg

I don't see them using nukes on taiwan unless taiwan, even if they loose face and taiwan don't have nukes, I see them using their conventual forces rather than to look like an ogor to the rest of the world, respect I feel is important to them too.

- Phil

Originally posted by gooseuk
ok that bit is still smoke and mirrors but if in my view, taiwan doesn't have nukes, I feel that china will use her conventual forces, but if she is threatened with a nuke threat, I feel that the situation would get worse.

In my opinion they will just swallow their pride. There is a difference between not alowing to loose the face and comiting suicide.

Originally posted by twchang
Also, some people in Taiwan are aboriginal or partially aboriginal and there are people from other part of south east asia.

Those aboriginals account for 2% of the population. The rest are Chinese immigrants. In fact, the composition of Han on Taiwan is even higher than in China. Taiwan has almost 98% Han while China has about 90%. Taiwan is even more Chinese than China!!

Re: US giving nukes to Taiwan
If the US gives nukes to Taiwan, it would only raise tensions and the CCP will most likely attack Taiwan before any deliveries are made.
The CCP is playing whack-the-gopher here. They aren't going to do anything rash unless either Taiwan or US makes a move. They're also taking this reunion process very slowly, provided that Taiwan or the US does not do anything crazy.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Taishyou]

China currently maintains a minimal nuclear deterrent policy with special qualifications needed for the use of our nuclear arsenal such as we must be hit first with a nuclear weapon, the other side must have nuclear weapons and all other means of ending the conflict is gone.

Both the U.S. and the Ruskies had nukes at each others throats for 50 years and we did not fire at each other because of MAD. China is not stupid enough to fire on Taiwan when it knows that it too will be destroyed. I think it might make tensions higher but it would reduce the possibility of war, like Ronald Reagan once said "peace through strength”.

Arn't you all forgetting the Cuban Missile Crises?

The U.S never stood back from it.

China will not stand back from it. It will be a game of brinkmanship and China cannot be the one to blink and the leaders know it.

Arn't you all forgetting the Cuban Missile Crises?

The U.S never stood back from it.

China will not stand back from it. It will be a game of brinkmanship and China cannot be the one to blink and the leaders know it.

Whatever the Chinese will not risk total annihilation because of one small A island. According to you the Chinese leaders think that the destruction of mainland china is worth Taiwan.