Hmm HF III vs. the 3M80 Moskit. This should be interesting.

Originally posted by SIRR1
Is there a defense on this type of missile, besides using other ships to block incomming missiles?

The best defense is to use planes like Hawkeye flying above to detect it. They can do it much sooner than ship based radars so there is enough time to intercept it.

Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by SIRR1
Is there a defense on this type of missile, besides using other ships to block incomming missiles?

The best defense is to use planes like Hawkeye flying above to detect it. They can do it much sooner than ship based radars so there is enough time to intercept it.

How? At mach 2.5 and only 90 miles or so range, there isnt much time to intercept. Like 2 minutes from launch to target. Id say phalanx or some high rate of fire anti air weapon will be the best counter.

Originally posted by SIRR1
Is there a defense on this type of missile, besides using other ships to block incomming missiles?

Wait a sec, using other ships to block incoming missiles?! Who does that? Usually SAMs would be launched at it. CIWS guns are for last resort, in case the SAMs miss. If the CIWS misses, then the ship goes to bottom of sea.

Originally posted by skippytjc
How? At mach 2.5 and only 90 miles or so range, there isnt much time to intercept. Like 2 minutes from launch to target. Id say phalanx or some high rate of fire anti air weapon will be the best counter.

It's more ( at least 3 minutes ). Anyway 2-3 minutes is enough time to use misilles. Normaly they are not used because the ship based radar is able to spot incoming Sunburns/Moskits only 20-30 secs before impact.
So I think Hawkeye networked with ships is the best solution.

At mach 2.5 (1903 mph) the missile will cover its maximum range in around 20 seconds - which isn`t enough time for a ship to fire SAM`s;

Remember the chain of command , a seaman doesn`t independantly think - he see`s the incoming vampire and reports this to his section leader - who then reports to his commander , who then confims the track , and orders the SAM system brought to active , then watches as the CIWS enages the incoming . Although phalanx is good - it was designed to deal with slower systems , and more than 1 missile on the same track will confuse it.

Originally posted by Harlequin
At mach 2.5 (1903 mph) the missile will cover its maximum range in around 20 seconds - which isn`t enough time for a ship to fire SAM`s;

Maximum range in 20 seconds?!

Speed of sound at 20 deg C at sea level = 343m/s
Mach 2.5 = 343m/s * 2.5 = 857m/s

Maximum range of missile = up to 150km = 150000m
Time required to travel maximum range
150000m / 857m/s = 175s = 2.9 minutes

Remember the chain of command , a seaman doesn`t independantly think - he see`s the incoming vampire and reports this to his section leader - who then reports to his commander , who then confims the track , and orders the SAM system brought to active , then watches as the CIWS enages the incoming . Although phalanx is good - it was designed to deal with slower systems , and more than 1 missile on the same track will confuse it.

There are ship missile defence systems such as the Aegis that, IIRC, automatically launches missiles at incoming targets it finds suspicious (e.g. some unknown contact speeding towards you at Mach 2.5 at sea level... hmm I wonder what that could be.) This greatly lowers the response time needed to engage the target with SAMs. If the SAMs miss, then CIWS and countermeasures will more or less be the last hope for your ship.

twas early in the day - and my math was out (by alot) m2.5 is a mile in 0.53 miles per second therefore to cover 90 miles will take 169 seconds or 2.8 minutes

Back on Topic,

I wonder if any response will come from the other side of the Strait, either through the actions of increasing the PLA Naval Combatants within the Strait or PLA "wild weasal" style squadrons or attack aircraft within range of the surface launch sites.

Any one know of equilavent chinese countermeasure? I am unsure of the current defensive systems that the PLA Navy currently have in service at the moment so if some one could provide a link, I would be gratful.

Also, do you think that the chinese would employ the soviet method of disabling those sites in the event up to war with SF units? It would be interesting if we see increased troop movements also.

- Phil

I think this a great play by Taiwan.

If China invades the island then the battle will not rage for long, a short, sharp shock strategy comes into play with Taiwanese supersonic missiles trying to do as much damage as possible.

Originally posted by Nerdling
I think this a great play by Taiwan.

If China invades the island then the battle will not rage for long, a short, sharp shock strategy comes into play with Taiwanese supersonic missiles trying to do as much damage as possible.

Dont know if its a good plan.

If China has made its mind up to invade, if not on the short term then on the mid-long or longterm, it might decide to make plans and preperations to invade Taiwan before 2006 when these missiles are introduced to the taiwanees army.

No, China will not invade Taiwan unless Taiwan makes the first move (e.g. declare independence). The PRC is not in a rush to get Taiwan, because there are Union parties and supporters of those parties in Taiwan that would rather rejoin the mainland. A war would be messy (especially if US gets involved), ruin Chinese international relations, and may also decrease the CCP's reputation on Taiwan. A civilised reunification would be preferred as it has no problems except the time and effort required.

The main concern in Taiwan right now is not that they don't want to join the mainland, but rather they don't like the CCP. The Taiwanese population is composed of almost 100% immigrants from China so they're Chinese anyway. They just don't like the authoritarian CCP.

As for the HFIII missile, it does not give the Taiwanese an edge over the PLAN, but rather even out the PLAN's edge over them. Now, both sides have supersonic anti-ship missiles with similar performance: Taiwan and its HF III, PLAN with its 3M80 Moskits.

As for defences, I'm not sure what the Taiwanese have but the Chinese recently built Type 052C destroyers which take care of air defence. Their air defence system is similar in performance with the US Aegis system. Not sure about the CIWS on both sides.

Anti-Ship missiles usually fly 10-15 feet above the water and pop up at the last second to strike the ship.

Most SAM's are not good at shooting these down as most radars don't detect them until its to late to launch a missile to shoot it down. I don't now what the Chinese HHQ-9 missile is designed for but it would be extremely difficult to shoot down all of the incoming missiles.

Originally posted by Taishyou
The main concern in Taiwan right now is not that they don't want to join the mainland, but rather they don't like the CCP. The Taiwanese population is composed of almost 100% immigrants from China so they're Chinese anyway. They just don't like the authoritarian CCP.

Hmm...could we stay on topic? Because this kind of political statement is arguable. Some people in Taiwan actually don't want to be part of China, wether it is CCP or otherwise. But obviously they will be happier if CCP is not in charge. Also, some people in Taiwan are aboriginal or partially aboriginal and there are people from other part of south east asia.

On a side note, Taiwan is also developing HF-2E missile. It started around the same time as HF-3. Don't know how that one goes and not much info of that missile is confirmed yet.

twchang, whats the HF-2E?

Is it a extended land attack missile?

Some rumor says it is but it might not be, because no one really confirms the information yet.

It could be a cruise missile that can attack land and sea target, but it could also just be a improve anti-ship missile.

Because missile such as HF-3 and Sunburn has some drawback such as large size and short range. HF-2E might just be a complementary system.

[edit on 14-4-2005 by twchang]

Well, I guess if we, The United States wanted to really shake things up, we could be just like China, Russia and North Korea.

We give Taiwan defensive nuclear weapons to protect herself from invasion!

Hey, Russia, China and North Korea sell these products to just about any country with a big enough check book.

The United States has an agreement to protect Taiwan, and with China so close, it would be allmost impossible to defend against an all out invasion.

So, we give Taiwan several pre-targeted missiles pointing at every city and military facility in China.

Hold a press conferance and show the world the taget of each missile and say that if China invades they loose too!

It worked against the Soviet Union during the cold war, it should work here.

Originally posted by SIRR1
Well, I guess if we, The United States wanted to really shake things up, we could be just like China, Russia and North Korea.

We give Taiwan defensive nuclear weapons to protect herself from invasion!

Hey, Russia, China and North Korea sell these products to just about any country with a big enough check book.

Err....are you crazy?

Only Pakistan recieved nuclear help from China in response to Indians developing nuclear weapons. Please do not play the high morality card since you guys gave the Israelis the nuke.

Russia's only giving Iran help on a power plant.

And NK did not get the knowhow from China, The last thing China needs right now is another Kim launching a crazy attack on SK.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by rapier28]