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Are christans comfortable saying things about jesus

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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I find it hard to beleive that christans say that jesus was a communist,gay,married etc.HOw can you say this to your own god or gods messenger?.If you say these things to allah,buddha or krishna then all hell would break loose in the counties which are dominated by these religions.




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Sadly, all hell would break loose here in the US, too. However, it is politically acceptable to hold contempt towards Christians as being silly, misguided fools which should be tolerated at best, insulted and ostracized at worst. Jesus is being turned into a political figure by those who claim to believe in Him in ways which support their way of life or political views.

While I can not come up with words to express the truth, I can quote someone else:


How we gonna work this out?
To fabricate a God like this no doubt
We'd end up worshipping a Christ of our own design
But Jesus doesn't fit that profile
His ways aren't mine

I'm not following a God that's imagined
Can't invent This deity
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To who I want my God to be
He's who


Christ isn't defined by what we want to believe. Christ defines who we are to become. He knows us better than we know ourselves, and He knows what's best for us. Just like you don't let your kids stick their fingers in an electrical outlet, though they may really want to, God tells us not to do things which will be self-destructive. Some of us don't always like what He says we shouldn't do, and as a result they try to create a God of their own design. Such as saying Christ was gay, married to Mary, or a communist. That's not Christ they're talking about; it's themselves.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGH.

This what Allah said about jesus and Mary (peace and blessings be upon them):

16 Relate in the Book (The story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family To a place in the east.
17 She placed a screen (To screen herself) from them; then we sent to her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18 She said: I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah.
19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son."
20 She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that non man has touched me and I am not unchaste?"
21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us:' It is a matter (so) decreed."
22 So she conceived him, And she retired with him to a remote place.
23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk Of a palm tree: She cried (in her anguish): Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!
24 But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm tree): grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
25 And shake towards thyself The trunk of the palm tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
26 So eat and drink And cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see Any man, say, I have Vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day Will I enter into no talk With any human being
27 At length she brought The (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not A man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!
29 But she pointed to the babe. They said: How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?
30 He said: I am indeed A servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me A prophet;
31 And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, And hath enjoined on me prayer and Charity as long As I live;
32 (He) hath made me kind To my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
33 So peace is on me The day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!
34 Such (was) Jesus the son Of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
35 It is not befitting To (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to him! when he determines a matter, He only says To it, be, and it is.
36 Verily Allah is my Lord And your Lord: him therefore serve ye: this is a way that is straight.
37 But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because Of the (coming) Judgment Of a momentous Day!


[Chapter 19 (Mary)]
www.kuftaro.org...

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Islam]



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 03:23 AM
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Islam......let me get this straight!

You are saying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

because if that is so........who is Muhammed?
helen
Glory be to God.....



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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Muhammed is just their messanger helen..they dont worship him. They believe in only worshiping allah. Islam is a very strict monothestic religion.
People misunderstand that concept all the time. I have however only been under the impression that Muslims regard Jesus as merely a prophet not divine. So what the poster ISLAM says i find puzzling. ISLAM could you clarify your message in your post please?


Im a protestant christian and do not agree with people when they say Jesus was a homosexual and things like that. I do find it disrespectful.
But religion doesnt seem to be a respected concept anymore. Instead of religion being debated it tends to be bashed.

I think jungle jake summed it up pretty good


Kind Regards,
Digital Grl



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 01:15 AM
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What Islam is saying is that jesus is a holy man, a prophet... in fact he is no more holy than Mohamed. The only difference is Mohamed is accepting as being the LAST messenger, or prophet. Moses, Abraham, Noah, are all holy figures in the Qu'ran, its just they believe the message needed updating and reminding evey few centuries. Which is why i believe Christians and Muslim, and even Jews essentially believei nthe same god, they just worship and practose their faith slightly differently.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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Thank you Digi.....for your response...

What I wanted to know and asked Islam to clarify for me ........ was .....If he beleives that '''Jesus Christ was the Son of God'' as he said that Theotokos(virgin Mary....bearer of Christ ,the WORD)was considered in the Koran as being Quote//from ISLAM...21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us:' It is a matter (so) decreed."
22 So she conceived him, And she retired with him to a remote place....

does this not mean (my understanding) that even in the KORAN regards Mary the Mother of God as being ''Holy''?
If that is so, then why is Jesus Christ a SECOND type of Prophet ?
I mean.........im tired.sorry....

What exactly did Muhammed do and how was he born?
Why is he considered more so to be a prophet amongst 'Muslims'' when His life is nothing like the life of Christ?
sorry if this sounds confusing, but I cant understand why Muslims would regard Muhammed more of a prophet then Jesus Christ since Mary the Mother of God was chosen to be Holy ........
I dont get it!
If the Koran does in fact show that Mary(Theotokos) gave birth as a virgin , then would not that it be saying that She is Holy and Blessed amongst Women?
helen....



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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I think Mary is considered the holiest woman in Islam. However, neither she, nor Jesus is supposed to be worshipped:


5:116
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.


Jesus is not considered a second type of prophet. He was one of the specially mentioned prophet's in the Quran:


2:253
Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. ...


There is nothing special about the way that Muhammad was born. He is considered a prophet because he delivered God's message to people, and fulfilled the signs of prophethood.

About the original topic... well, ok, I understand that saying Jesus was homosexual would be insulting to christians because homosexuality is considered a sin. But why should anyone be "uncomfortable" saying that Jesus was a communist or married. Sure, it may not be true, but there is nothing WRONG with being married or a communist.

[edit on 18-4-2005 by babloyi]



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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No problem Helen. I get what you are saying totally. some of it is confusing to people that arent involved in that culture and religion. The one thing i do agree with in Islam is that mary should not be worshiped, prayed to, etc. Thats one of the reasons why i am protestant
But anyway, Muhammed was born in the arabian peninsula, and was a caravan manager so to speak.he was born in 570 and dies in the year 632. It is said that had had a vision from God giving him instructions to spread what he has been told to all of those around him. And thus Islam, meaning "submission to God's will" was founded. So he is considered to be a prophet. but not God. Like i said VERY strict monothesitc religion. Like Christianity. Although in some ways like in catholisism for example it seems that it is not adhered to. but that is just my opinon.

I am majoring in history in college and i am talking an eastern civilization class as we speak. Last semester i studied INDIA, CHINA, JAPAN before 1500 and now i am taking the history after 1500. So of course Islam plays a huge part in it. So if you have anyother questions i can try and get them answered for you by me or speaking to some of the professors.

Hope that helps some.

Kind regards,
Digital Grl


P.s regarding the topic about Jesus at hand..It is insulting to us Christians when people say he was married because we believe the Bible to be divine truth and therefore to make the assumption that Jesus or his diciples lied about anything concerning Jesus Christ we do in fact take that as an insult to our faith. It may seem ridiculous but when people are close to their God in any religious faith for that matter, they don't take comments regarding him as just mere words that can be shrugged off. It's God we are talking about here...it's different when someone says something like "I think your brother is secretly married to someone" You say oh ok whatever sure. But when people have a personal relationship with God, they take things said in contrary to what they have been told by him very seriously. I hope that clears it up a bit more.

Kind Regards.



[edit on 10/01/2004 by DigitalGrl]



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Helen,

Mohamed isnt considered more holy than Jesus... The reason mohamed is held in special regard with muslims is his message was the final message. Mohamed spent most of his life spreadign Islam across Arabia and Northern Africa.

here are many books and movies in English that chornicle the life of Mohamed and i suggest you have a look at some of them to get a better understanding of Islam.

I was brought up Islamic but dont see it as the ultimate truth... i dont see any religion as the ultimate truth.



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by warthog911
I find it hard to beleive that christans say that jesus was a communist,gay,married etc.HOw can you say this to your own god or gods messenger?.If you say these things to allah,buddha or krishna then all hell would break loose in the counties which are dominated by these religions.


The thing I see as being implied here is that it is bad, wrong, unnatural, sinful, or some such thing for him to have been communist, or gay, or married, or to father children. None of the above are at all wrong, imho, so I do not see a problem with proposing the theory that he could have been any of those. I agree that he preached against accumulating wealth, and his message, imho, does closely parallel the ideals of true communism. I would have no different, or lesser view of him, were he gay, but have not seen anything to convince me that he was. I am quite a firm believer that he was married, had kids, and did not die on the cross to be resurrected, but instead was taken down from it while still living.
This all may sound offensive to some, but it is not meant to offend, and I feel that Jesus would rather have people think for themselves than just accept without question whatever some church tells them to believe. It is good to question what we are told to believe, and my view is that God wants us to think, and would never be offended by such thoughts. If I am wrong, then so be it, I will admit so, if proven to be so. And if I get sent to hell for ever for this perspective, I still refuse to change my views unless I see an explanation I like more. Hell doesn't scare me, but the millions of unthinking, self righteous sheep that I see existing within all of the world's faiths are almost able to.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Islam......let me get this straight!

You are saying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

because if that is so........who is Muhammed?
helen
Glory be to God.....



I didnt sat that Jesus is son of god!!!

And I will not say it AT ALL!!!

Jesus is a holy massanger as well as Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, etc.



posted on Apr, 24 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Islam

Originally posted by helen670
Islam......let me get this straight!

You are saying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

because if that is so........who is Muhammed?
helen
Glory be to God.....



I didnt sat that Jesus is son of god!!!

And I will not say it AT ALL!!!

Jesus is a holy massanger as well as Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, etc.

Islam......
here ARE your words///QUOTE///This what Allah said about jesus and Mary (peace and blessings be upon them):

16 Relate in the Book (The story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family To a place in the east.
17 She placed a screen (To screen herself) from them; then we sent to her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18 She said: I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah.
19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son."
20 She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that non man has touched me and I am not unchaste?"
21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us:' It is a matter (so) decreed."
22 So she conceived him, And she retired with him to a remote place.
23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk Of a palm tree: She cried (in her anguish): Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!
24 But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm tree): grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
25 And shake towards thyself The trunk of the palm tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
26 So eat and drink And cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see Any man, say, I have Vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day Will I enter into no talk With any human being
27 At length she brought The (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not A man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!
29 But she pointed to the babe. They said: How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?
30 He said: I am indeed A servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me A prophet;
31 And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, And hath enjoined on me prayer and Charity as long As I live;
32 (He) hath made me kind To my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
33 So peace is on me The day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!
34 Such (was) Jesus the son Of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

If in the Koran Mary (Theotokos) you say is blessed to have a Holy Son, who is the Holy Son?

Also I will quote you again....
QUOTE////19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son."
20 She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that non man has touched me and I am not unchaste?"
21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us:' It is a matter (so) decreed."
22 So she conceived him, And she retired with him to a remote place.


So Sign Unto men ?
Can you please explain what exactly this means?

Glory be to God Lord Jesus Christ ......
helen....
thank you ....



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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People have said that jesus was a homosexual!?!? WHO???!?! I"ve never heard that before! From anyone!
And if people really have said horrible things like that, i find it extremely rude, judgmental, and wrong of them. I cant believe someone would actually say such things like that....:shk:



posted on Apr, 25 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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There was a thread on here a while ago with the subject:

"Jesus was a homosexual"

I tried searching for it and came up null, and it's not in MyATS, either. Not sure what happened to it, where it may have gone to, if someone renamed the subject, or what. Anyone else remember that thread?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Maybe it was thrown in the trash bin or something
...would it still show up on search even if it's in the trash bin?



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Vesuvius 13
People have said that jesus was a homosexual!?!? WHO???!?! I"ve never heard that before! From anyone!
And if people really have said horrible things like that, i find it extremely rude, judgmental, and wrong of them. I cant believe someone would actually say such things like that....:shk:


You make it sound like being a homosexual is such a horrible thing to begin with.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by dreamlandmafia
You make it sound like being a homosexual is such a horrible thing to begin with.

Nah, sorry i was being overly dramatic, id probably just had some sugar. :bnghd: However i'd consider it rude to call any spiritual teacher that(that meaning something intended as an offensive comment), b/c it was most likely intended to be derrogatory(did i spell that right?), or offensive, which really is unnecessary. Attacking christianity is one thing everybody is used to, attacking the man(Jesus) himself is a whole nother.
But yeah i was just being overlydramatic, sorry...
-Dani



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Just an innocent slip of the tongue sounds like, though. I am hetero myself, but I have made the 'sin' of dating in the last 15 years, a bisexual Muslim Lebanese woman, a beautiful, intelligent, and extremely determined black woman, and now am with a Native lady that I won't even attempt to put into words other than to say she is beyond beyond.
I just never learned my lesson.....the first relationship was always slightly affected by the differences between Islam and my own beliefs. And despite a good five year effort, my African princess dumped me with good reason. I had not been able to positively deal with the reactions of 90 % of my friends and family, after 5 years of it, I still couldn't take their rudeness, and overdramatization......
Well, I can honestly say that where I live, it is more acceptable to be overtly rude to someone who is Native. I didn't think it could get more negative. We were never able to go anywhere without someone staring, scowling at us. The good thing was, she was used to it, and I had by then had a good decade to adjust to the spectre of modern day racism.

I hope that Vesuvius 13 sincerely is sorry, cuz I now know how that kind of statement hurts. I won't say that most white people can't picture it though.....lol.........that never has gone over very well. I guess it was just me that couldn't imagine it before.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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I really didnt meen anything like that, now i wish i could delete my post!!! :bnghd: Rawwr...but its too late.....lol im sorry...sugar high...

Sorry again...

-Vesuvius





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