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Parents Against Military Slavery:

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:34 AM
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I know the potential for a Military Draft is still seen as "unfathomable" by many, but I do believe it is at least being considered in some manner by the current administration.

I have an article here that shows the current wave of recruitment as more of a "last resort" before drafting would be required. Furthermore there seems to be a growing number of people, parents of children at or near draft age, that feel a draft is a real possibility.



The military has a tough road ahead. Polling of 1,200 potential recruits conducted by Millward Brown shows that parents are a problem: "Opposition to--military service is increasing significantly among both moms and dads." According to USA Today, "GfK Custom Research found that the biggest influence in candidates' decision to join were mother, named by 81 percent of respondents, followed by fathers at 70 percent." GfK urges the Army to "Reach the parents."



As unlikely as it sounds, the Army is planning to try to convince parents that sending their beloved children to war is good for them. How? They are going to use slick marketing and propaganda, including:



* Television advertisements focused on mothers, fathers, coaches, and ministers--people the Army sees as "influencers."

* Sending vets from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on home visits with recruiters to tell parents "the Army story."

* Producing a video that highlights the voices of parents who tell viewers how joining the Army was good for their children.

* A direct mail campaign to high school juniors and seniors requesting visits to discuss the benefits of joining the Army.



This seems like a bit of a "Hail Mary" pass by the Army. Convincing parents to send their children to war or join the military while the U.S. policy is one of preemptive war is going to be a tough sell. The propaganda they are planning will have to be pretty convincing.

Parents see the failing recruitment and are worried that the inability to sign up recruits is going to lead to reinstatement of the draft. Groups of parents are forming to fight the return of the draft.

Source

Do you have children at or near the draft age?

Are you yourself at or near draft age?

What do you feel is going to happen if a draft is started?

Would you encourage your child to adhere to the draft's order for their service?

What are some alternatives to having your child go to the military's draft?


Thanks,

X




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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military slavery?
the u.s. military is all volunteer force. the pentagon is not goin into your home and take your kids for military duty.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Related material:


Parents Against A Draft

Mothers Against The Draft

No Draft, No Way

Stop The Draft

For your reference as well as to highlight that there is an "Anti-Draft" community that is growing rather quickly.

X



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
military slavery?
the u.s. military is all volunteer force. the pentagon is not goin into your home and take your kids for military duty.



It is currently a volunteer force. But if conscription did re-start, it would be looked at by many as a form of involuntary sevitude, which is oft-called slavery...


Now, this entire thread is devoted to A Military Draft. With that in mind, why did you even post? Knowing that this subject is discussing the possibility of forced military service, your point is invalid.

It's not as though I stated this was the way things were RIGHT NOW, this very instant.

It's about questioning if this is on its way here.

Thanks,

X



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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military slavery? the u.s. military is all volunteer force. the pentagon is not goin into your home and take your kids for military duty.


If there was no precedent, I'd share your laughter, but there IS a precedent...so it is a wise thing to watch, especially given a shortage of GIs, and a warmongering president who engages in war on false pretenses.

We've already seen widespread usage of "backdoor draft" techniques, such as calling 70 something year old vets back for active duty...so you mean to say the idea of a draft is unrealistic? Well, one of us isn't being realistic...



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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i doubt there be a draft since draftees are useless, even Rumsfeld says he dont like forcing kids who didnt volunteer for the military because they are a liability, thats why we dropped the draft. only drafting if america is invaded overwhelmingly.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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where is your source that 70 year old men are being call back for duty? Can you please post it up.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok


military slavery? the u.s. military is all volunteer force. the pentagon is not goin into your home and take your kids for military duty.


If there was no precedent, I'd share your laughter, but there IS a precedent...so it is a wise thing to watch, especially given a shortage of GIs, and a warmongering president who engages in war on false pretenses.

We've already seen widespread usage of "backdoor draft" techniques, such as calling 70 something year old vets back for active duty...so you mean to say the idea of a draft is unrealistic? Well, one of us isn't being realistic...


Right On, Gazrok!

I mean, what we can observe at the moment is the potential for a Military Draft.

As you point out, many desperate measures have been occuring lately that only really add to the potential of a draft.



X



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Well, the Democrats did a fantastic spin job on this. It was two DEMOCRATS who proposed bills, one to the senate, one to the house, to institute the draft. The media was more than happy to grab onto these bills and start reporting on them while ignoring who proposed them, yet implying the GOP did.

If a draft is started in the US again, it won't be by the Republican's hand. Our military is the best in the world because 99% of the people who volunteer are dedicated to the job they're doing. The other 1% can complain and whine saying they didn't sign up for the military to fight battles (
), but the rest of them are typically hardcore, dedicated patriots who take their job very seriously. If we force people into the military, the level of skill in our forces will decline and we'll be no better than the Russian military.

Don't count on Rummy or any inteligent republican to institute a draft.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
i doubt there be a draft since draftees are useless, even Rumsfeld says he dont like forcing kids who didnt volunteer for the military because they are a liability, thats why we dropped the draft. only drafting if america is invaded overwhelmingly.

where is your source that 70 year old men are being call back for duty? Can you please post it up.



First, I agree that draftees are not as effective as a volunteer serviceman. That's not what this discussion is about. FOCUS on what we're talking about, please. The point here is that if hard up, the government can and will use whatever cannon fodder they can get their hands on to keep the military operating at a certain degree of "normalcy".

That's why the potential for a draft is so great.
An Military Stretched Thin Gets Desperate


Secondly, Gaz is not misleading you. The man he's speaking of was recalled at the age of 68 (or older). He was a now private citizen living in Hawaii who owned his own business. I'll get you a link if Gazrok's not already on it by the time I post this.

Had to go through 72 pages for this link:
Retired and Discharged members called up!

Still not exactly the one I'm looking for. Will keep looking later on. Taking break atm...

X

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Xatnys]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:01 AM
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true junglejake, remember prez Nixon a republican abandon the draft.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
true junglejake, remember prez Nixon a republican abandon the draft.


Yeah, but I'll be ignored by the dissenting opinion, believe it or not. Is it fear of a good debate, or fear of not being able to spin the "facts" the way they want to.

hehehe There, maybe now someone will comment



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Well, the Democrats did a fantastic spin job on this. It was two DEMOCRATS who proposed bills, one to the senate, one to the house, to institute the draft. The media was more than happy to grab onto these bills and start reporting on them while ignoring who proposed them, yet implying the GOP did.


I don't dispute that. But regardless of where that original proposal came from, it's no matter. We need to take a realistic look at the current military situation and then start to make decisions.


If a draft is started in the US again, it won't be by the Republican's hand.


I wouldn't go that far. It's just as likely to come from a Republican's hand as it is a Democrat's.

I'm neither so I don't look at the issue partisanly and really none of us should. There is much stress on the military, if something else requires more of our military, they will need to take steps to bolster the ranks.

X



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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I would trust neither party on this point as indeed, the bills were proposed by Democrats.

Read'em and weep:


Universal National Service Act, 2003: H.R. 163

Universal National Service Act, 2003: S. 89


Op/Ed interesting read: Feel a draft?




[edit on 13/4/05 by AlwaysLearning]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:29 AM
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hehe I just heard about the Michael Moore promoting a national conference preventing the draft. This all seems like a planned effort. What's really funny is Colonel and Bout Time were both for the draft when these bills came to be (I started a thread about it somewhere here on ATS before it became mainstream knowledge and they participated). Bout, you're still around. Still support the draft?


As to taking a look at our military. What do we need to wage wars these days? Who did the bulk of the dirty work. Was it the tank divisions and the infantry? No, they made a major show of presence and worked well with our PsyOps, but it was the special forces that decimated the Iraqi military infrastructure before the war. It was the special forces who gave the US intel on the locations of the heads of the Iraqi military. It was unmanned missiles that blew those targets up. It was (I'm assuming) force recon teams who took out the ones the missiles missed.

The battleground of the future is not World War 2 style wars of infantry. It's covert, undercover, and technology driven. You don't draft special forces operatives; special forces operatives are just born different (I have two in my family). America's military is not stretched thin.

Let's say Syria, Iran and North Korea all get together and declare war on the US as an alliance. The CIA sends agents into Iran to subvert the population and cause a revolution. Israel is given the go-ahead for Syria (I'm sure their trigger finger has been itching since Syria invaded them last and the UN said they had to stop slaughtering the Syrian army), and we play with South Korea and China in handling North Korea.

Granted, it wouldn't be as clean cut as that, but as long as everyone is afraid to go to war with us and just sponsor terror instead, we will be able to pick the when and how. If anyone attacks us, people who love this country, our liberties, and don't want it to be taken from them by some crackpot despots and fanatical America-haters will join up, just as they have in the past. I tried to get into the Navy post-9-11, but was rejected for medical reasons.

The draft will not have to be put into effect for the sake of our military. The only reason a draft would be started would be for political reasons. Right now, only the democrats have anything political to gain from a draft. How, you ask? Well, if they somehow pass a draft bill, they can say it was because of Bush's war mongering. If they don't, they're going to be hard pressed to beat the republicans in 2008 and probably in 2012, as well, because all of their doom and gloom politics won't come to pass. The Democrats need a draft to keep their party alive. As long as the Republicans stay in power, they won't get it.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

As to taking a look at our military. What do we need to wage wars these days? Who did the bulk of the dirty work. Was it the tank divisions and the infantry? No, they made a major show of presence and worked well with our PsyOps, but it was the special forces that decimated the Iraqi military infrastructure before the war.


Hello again, and thanks for your thoughtful(if slightly partisan) reply,

Having family and friends peppered throughout the service, including MFR, I have to say that the spec ops do a lot, but to think that they are the whole crux and cornerstone of the military is wrong.

They may do the tasks deemed "high profile" and "media worthy" but you are wrong to think that our special forces are the "military of the future".

They're not. They are rapid response to key objectives. What they do is so that the rank and file has it a bit easier. By no means are they what win wars.

Yes, the battlefield is changing, but no matter what you envision, be it tactical nukes, robots, drones, etc. you'll never get rid of the common grunt.

With the world changing and new potential adversaries emerging, one cannot discount manpower for the sake of technology.

With as taxed as our military is right now, and granting the provision that it can be further taxed; you still cannot view our current military as operating at any form of normalcy for a dominant superpower.

If the U.S. ends up going into Syria, or has to respond to a possible Israeli civil war, or attacks Iran, any one of these can destabilize the region easily.

Now if you consider that several of these could occur from the resulting destabilization, you have a true military emergency on your hands.

Politics will indeed be what brings a draft, but the Republican Party is not the "Political Windbreak" you seem to think it is. Tax the military enough and it won't matter which of your two parties is in there, they will reinstate the draft.


I'm glad you admit that your given scenario is "too clean cut", because frankly I doubt you'll ever see something such as that go the way described. This whole region that seems to be the U.S.'s current interest has the ability to start chain reactions that you and I can't even begin to realize. I'd bet that most U.S. and Israeli think tanks haven't looked at every angle, either.

We are definitely headed for some type of Military Service reform. I can see it being something as shocking as a Draft, but I also see that there are other ways for them to reach the goal of more manpower. Compulsory service for high school graduates? Or a mandatory 2-year enlistment for all at age 18? Something modeled after the Israeli mandatory service framework?

Politics will indeed be a driving factor to a draft (or military service revision), but it doesn't matter who's in the Whitehouse, the media will make the case for the action, and then the government will do as it pleases.


People need to decide what is best for their children. Are you in the target draft age? Do you have children that are either in target draft age or would eventually be 18 and subjected to compulsory military service?

It's easy to be relaxed or see no threat in an issue that does not directly affect you. I'd like to ask you, if you are not one who would be potentially affected by a draft or military service revision, please try to put yourself in that position and try to see the situation from the eyes of:

1.) A person who is in the target draft age.
2.) A Parent of a child who is in target draft age.
3.) A Parent who is in target draft age themselves.

Remember, you are looking through they eyes of a person who does not want to serve in the military, or have their children serve for the following reasons:

You disagree with the new imperialistic rule that the U.S. is imposing upon various nations of the world.

You have a family who you would rather not have to try and survive without you via death or disability.

You remember the horrors of 'nam as a draftee, and what you were treated like upon your return after your tour.

You lost your spouse as a result of their service during a previous war and raised the child(ren) to target draft age alone because of it.

And yes, finally:
Cowardice, a person of no real conviction that wishes not to serve for fear of direct injury or death.

That last one doesn't sit well with me, either; but it is one of the reasons that you should consider.

The above is only a tiny sampling of reasons for wishing to stay away from a draft / military service.


Can you put yourself in that position?

How would you deal with current indicators in this position?



Maybe we can break some ground here if we take time to look at things from more than one angle. Perhaps if we shed our own view, and we take off the blinders of partisanship, we can see how the current situation is more indicative of some form of military service or reform than we'd like to think at first.


X



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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I too would like to see a source of 70-year old vets being called up for duty. I mean, they couldn't do anything except work in an office back in the states anyway...



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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Hmm, well I myself do not have any children (that I know of
).
But if I did I would expect them to adhere to the draft if it came about...
within good reason of course. If I feel the draft was completely and utterly uncalled for then I would probably not support my children going along with it and probably would help them in any way possible from not joining.

But that would be in the far extreme...and it would ultimately be his choice, not mine.


I think the draft is very unlikely for now, but who know's....

Supply and Demand!

[edit on 13/4/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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It's quite possible that the lame duck GWB could summon enough power to pull this off. The fact that the bill was preposed by the democrats should be enough for everyone to see the TRUE hold those in authority have on the U.S citizenry.
"vote my counts! my vote REALLY counts! my vote counts???"

Sad and scary.

However, since the Iraq war brought out the largest-produced anti-war demonstrations ever seen before a war started...drafting Americans to fight in it could present those in authority with a socially unstable populace. Remember that it took 7 years of Vietnam before any sizable anti-war movement came about. Also remember that the recently released Pentagon papers from that time indicate that being able to "repress" the American population and continue to wage war in Asia was a MAJOR concern to those who pull the strings.

It should be an interesting year, but I wouldn't think a move like this could realistically begin until mid 2006...after the congressional elelections.

Authority is an illusion in the mind of govenors - Lao Tse



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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I'm assuming, based on the comments and responses I have seen here, that none of you have been in the service; therefore, your characterization or interpretation of anything military is -- as far as I'm concerned -- worthless.

My late father was a chief petty officer when World War II broke out; he ended the war as a commander. My brother and I both enlisted in the reserves at seventeen and did our two years' active duty after high school, both as Navy petty officers. My sister, the black sheep of the family, was an Army nurse, and retired as a lieutenant colonel.

I have a son who will be 20 in June. He works and is in college full-time, and he's said that, if he felt there was a need for him to go in the military, he'd do so.

Andy is not a stupid person. He knows that many of the things that the military is called upon to do can be dangerous and maybe even counter to what he thinks is the best route for our foreign policy to take. He's also not so stupid as to think that the military are all facist pigs or cannon fodder for a bunch of rich capitalists warmongers or anything else. Even though he's just a punk kid, her realizes that the world is complex; and figures that anyone who sees the military, the draft, and our country's military policy in black-and-white terms is a fool.

Of course, you have every right to quack about the military as "slavery" since you live in a (more or less) free country. Ironically, it is the military, who are denied certain freedoms, who have historically maintained those freedoms for the rest of you.

But just because you have a right to discuss the military, your abysmal ignorance is a good reason for me -- and any other veteran who chooses -- to laugh your comments off.




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