Moloch/Owl?

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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I'm following Nygdan's thinking. I have yet to see one post that explains the relationship between the BG Owl and the ancient god Moloch... Why is everyone calling the big statue Moloch? Is the word Moloch mentioned in BG literature? If not, then this looks like there is no connection.




posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by JonestownRed
I'm following Nygdan's thinking. I have yet to see one post that explains the relationship between the BG Owl and the ancient god Moloch... Why is everyone calling the big statue Moloch? Is the word Moloch mentioned in BG literature? If not, then this looks like there is no connection.


Moloch was a divinity worshipped by idolatrous Israelites during times of the Old testament. "King" The sun god Moloch sometimes associated with the Sumerian Baal, although Moloch was entirely malevolent.

www.pantheon.org...
According to some sources, the Moloch in the Old Testament is not a god, but a specific form of sacrifice.



Malevolent \Ma*lev"o*lent\, a. [L. malevolens, -entis; male ill + volens, p. pr. of velle to be willing or disposed, to wish. See Malice, and Voluntary.]

Wishing evil; disposed to injure others; rejoicing in another's misfortune. [1913 Webster]

Syn: Ill-disposed; envious; mischievous; evil-minded; spiteful; malicious; malignant; rancorous. [1913 Webster]


Boheiman Grove cross referencing:

www.sonomacountyfreepress.com...




What activities take place at the grove? The grove is the site of a two week retreat every July (as well as other smaller get-togethers throughout the year). At these retreats, the members commune with nature in a truly original way. They drink heavily from morning through the night, bask in their freedom to urinate on the redwoods, and perform pagan rituals (including the "Cremation of Care", in which the members wearing red-hooded robes, cremate a coffin effigy of "Dull Care" at the base of a 40 foot owl altar). Some (20%) engage in homosexual activity (but few of them support gay rights or AIDS research). They watch (and participate in) plays and comedy shows in which women are portrayed by male actors. Although women are not allowed in the Grove, members often leave at night to enjoy the company of the many prostitutes who come from around the world for this event. Is any of this hard to believe? Employees of the Grove have said that no verbal description can accurately portray the bizarre behavior of the Grove's inhabitants.


That basically sums up our Satanic Molech worshiping anti-Christian government...



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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That makes the activities similar to the ammonites, but not specifically centered around a god called Moloch.

Also, its probably important to note, the only depiction of moloch and the ammonites we have (that i know of) is from the anti-thetical monotheistic hebrews that were their competitors and, not surprisingly, the account paints them as baby eating mad-men.

Anyway, the worship of moloch seems to have died out with the ammonites. Baal, of course, was worshipped throughout the levant. Moloch might be a sort of local version of Baal, and of course it gets very vague if we take Moloch-Baal to be a non-proper name but rather a title, sort of like 'the lord' is a title, or 'al-lah' was once a title.

To say that the BC people are doing stuff that was like the ammonites is one thing, to say that their statue is a statute of moloch is quite another. The statue, obviously, is not an idol of the fire-god Moloch.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Unless someone shows some Bohemian Grove literature that refers to the owl as Moloch, I'm going to assume that it isn't. And even if that is the name, its probably tongue in cheek.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Indeed, the whole group seems rather 'tongue in cheek'. Actually, a lot of the stuff revealed in this other thread makes me think these guys are pretty similar to a college frat.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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Well Nygdan, I'm not saying that important meetings do not go down there, its just that the ceremony is probably a parody of religion. I think Cremation of the Care means just what it sounds like. The ideal of getting rid of concerns and living in peace.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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It's pretty obvious you two Bush lovers are living in a state of naive ignorance, hey you asked so i simply provided the answers you seek. Moloch not only is he described as an idol in the bible, moloch also represents malevolent behavior as stated in the good book.

What is the significant difference between, here's the key part now, mock sacrafice of humans for a goat moloch, compared to mock sacrafice for an owl moloch?

The ceremony is a parody of what religion exactly? When are the acts performed during a ceremony become acts of idol worship?.. Perhaps when the ceremony involves mock human sacrifices being cast into a pit of fire over a giant 45-foot stone owl statue?

Face it, this is not a resort devoted to tennis or swimming. It is apparently devoted to blood, sacrifices, satanism, kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, sodomy.


[edit on 14-4-2005 by syntaxer]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by syntaxer
What is the significant difference between, here's the key part now, mock sacrafice of humans for a goat idol moloch, compared to mock sacrafice of humans for an owl idol moloch?

I think this is the problem. Its not a goat idol moloch, or a owl idol moloch. Moloch is the name of the god. The ammonite big god was named Moloch, they did lots of things to appease him. The owl in the BC isn't called moloch. They don't worship a god who's name is moloch.

Some researchers have argued that the name of the ammonite god is actually unknown, and that 'moloch' is a verb or adjective in something like the sense you suggest. But the general consensus, as far as I understand it, is that Moloch is the proper name of the god, not title or action. And thats usually how its presented in this context, people will say 'Its a 40 statue of Moloch' or 'Its the Owl of Moloch' or the 'Moloch Owl', which doesn't make sense since its not the god of an extinct tribe named Moloch.
Also, there's a big difference between actually killing someone, and these mock rituals. Also, and I am just unfamiliar with this, is there a mock sacrifice done on the owl? Or just a ceremony?

When the Elusian Mystery Cults would gather in a mass, and have the culmination of that mass as the raising of a peice of wheat before the faithful, are you saying that that makes them christians? That they must be using a eucharist?


The ceremony is a parody of what religion exactly?

Seems like a parody of any idolating/sacrificing religion.


When are the acts performed during a ceremony become acts of idol worship?

You mean when does it cross over from play acting to real worship? When the people doing it have faith in the god.


Face it, this is not a resort devoted to tennis or swimming. It is apparently devoted to blood sacrifices.

Honestly, I don't care if it is, so long as they aren't killing actual people.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by syntaxer
Face it, this is not a resort devoted to tennis or swimming. It is apparently devoted to blood, sacrifices, satanism, kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, sodomy.


It is you who needs to face the fact that everything you believe is based off of assumption and heresay, and not actual fact. Just be honest with yourself and decide: do you have a GOOD reason to believe this? Or are you going off of heresay and assumption?



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by JonestownRed
Unless someone shows some Bohemian Grove literature that refers to the owl as Moloch, I'm going to assume that it isn't. And even if that is the name, its probably tongue in cheek.


I put the words I have a problem with in Bold. I've seen it said by most Masons here, I don't know if this member is one, "Prove it". This looks to me that if this issue is proven, it will still be discounted. I hope I'm wrong about that.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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My first post, and it's used to say...

Sebatwerk, your REALLY reaching.






You might be able to tell a 4 year old that it's a spider with some success, but not here. And I've never once heard it called a spider. Everyone I know that even knew of the Owl on the bill knows of it as an Owl.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricCrow
Sebatwerk, your REALLY reaching.

You might be able to tell a 4 year old that it's a spider with some success, but not here. And I've never once heard it called a spider. Everyone I know that even knew of the Owl on the bill knows of it as an Owl.



THEN WHY IS IT IN SPIDER WEBS!?!?!? Explain THAT!

In any case, I've already shown that it's actually just the tip of one of the cones formed by the webs. There's similar extensions just under the branch, on both sides of the bottom of the bill, and two times on the left side.

It would look like nothing out of the ordinary, if they had not put the large "1" and frame right on top of the web extension.


[edit on 14-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 09:48 PM
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Please observe this image i took

files.abovetopsecret.com...

its off the item under discussion. Its not very owl like at that size. I agree, it looks like an owl at the size in your photo, at this size it seems to not be one though. I had allways thought it was an owl myself too until I looked at it closely.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
I put the words I have a problem with in Bold. I've seen it said by most Masons here, I don't know if this member is one, "Prove it". This looks to me that if this issue is proven, it will still be discounted. I hope I'm wrong about that.


Nope, not a mason. Allow me to explain why I believe it is tongue in cheek. I find it hard to believe that all these intelligent men up and decided that some obscure ancient god named Moloch was in fact the true god, and decided to worship him. I suspect that the ceremonies at Bohemian Grove are a parody of ALL religion.



[edit on 15-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by JonestownRed
Nope, not a mason. Allow me to explain why I believe it is tongue in cheek. I find it hard to believe that all these intelligent men up and decided that some obscure ancient god named Moloch was in fact the true god, and decided to worship him. I suspect that the ceremonies at Bohemian Grove are a parody of ALL religion.


I have actually heard that theorized before... all the grove's themes being kinds of satire. Interesting theory, certainly more likely than a bunch of powerful men worshipping some ancient deity for no apparent reason other than malevolence.


[edit on 15-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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I have entertained ideas that the idol actually represents Horus. Though, Horus is a falcon. I was looking at hieroglyphics in a book and saw one that looked remarkably like the bohemian grove logo. I found it is something like the equivelant to an english M. What that hieroglyphic represents, owl, falcon, other, is beyond me at this point.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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I'm sorry to say but the figure on the dollar bill looks much like an owl. I have never seen a spider before that has its lower body standing STRAIGHT up like so. The shape of it looks like the white owl ElectricCrow posted. And it's postioning looks the same too, save the opposite direction.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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If my memory serves me correct, In the vedio that Alex jones taped of the Creamation of care, they(worshipers in robes) call out to the Stone Owl as molech.

Does anyone currently have this film? To verify this or not?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic12
I'm sorry to say but the figure on the dollar bill looks much like an owl. I have never seen a spider before that has its lower body standing STRAIGHT up like so. The shape of it looks like the white owl ElectricCrow posted. And it's postioning looks the same too, save the opposite direction.


I hate to break it to you, but the figure that you see is either one of two things:

1. the tip of one of the leaves next to and behind the frame that holds the number "1"

2. the tip of one of the cones formed by the webbing in the background of the dollar bill. There are several other cones formed around the edge of the bill, you can see them in the spots I circled below:



Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not a hidden owl or anything of the sort. You conspiracy theorists have really taken this a bit too far :bnghd:



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by syntaxer
Face it, this is not a resort devoted to tennis or swimming. It is apparently devoted to blood, sacrifices, satanism, kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, sodomy.


It is you who needs to face the fact that everything you believe is based off of assumption and heresay, and not actual fact. Just be honest with yourself and decide: do you have a GOOD reason to believe this? Or are you going off of heresay and assumption?


well, one of the kids pushing this story won a very large civil suit against the leader of the kidnapping, child prostitution ring. I think some of the transcripts are still out there. look for paul bonacci vs lawrence king. I was a skeptic too until I read a bunch of the info the gov't released on this case and the mk-ultra issue. all I can say is it held up in court so something must be there!





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