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PLAAF to buy 210 enhanced Mirage-2000

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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This deal does not add up to me €120m is about $150m (maybe a bit less) for that they are getting 210 Mirage planes, 180 replacement engines and 1,200 missiles . . . I think not no way such aircraft are going to go for about 1/2 million each more like $20 million a piece




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Whatever the price the deal seems highly unlikely to materialise..



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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More news on this...


Copyright 2005 Financial Times Information
Global News Wire - Asia Africa Intelligence Wire
Copyright 2005 BBC Monitoring/BBC
BBC Monitoring International Reports

April 11, 2005

TAIWAN AIR FORCE FEARS IMPACT OF POSSIBLE CHINA, FRANCE JET DEAL

Text of report by Sofia Wu, carried in English by Taiwanese Central
News
Agency web site

Taipei, 11 April: The ROC [Republic of Korea] air force will feel the
pinch
if China acquires French-made Mirage 2000-9CS jet fighters, the chief
of
staff at the ROC air force General Headquarters said Monday [11 April].
Lt-Gen Peng Sheng-chu made the remarks at a meeting of the Legislative
Yuan's defence committee, where opposition People First Party
Legislator Lin
Yu-fang asked Peng about his views on a media report that said that
once the
European Union lifts its 16-year-old ban on arms sales to China, China
will
purchase 210 Mirage 2000-9CSs from France.

As Mirage 2000-9CSs are newer than the Mirage 2000-5 jet fighters that
Taiwan acquired in the 1990s, Peng said the Mirage 2000-9CSs are
believed to
outperform the Mirage 2000-5s in combat capabilities and range. If
China
does obtain Mirage 2000-9CSs, Peng admitted that the ROC air force will
face
great pressure. Taiwan purchased 60 Mirage 2000-5s and two of them have
crashed in training flights.

With a view to upgrading air defence capabilities, Peng said, the
military
has considered procuring a new generation of warplanes after acquiring
150
US-built F-16 jet fighters and 60 Mirage 2000-5s in the 1990s. Noting
that
new warplane procurement requires a careful evaluation of a number of
complicated elements, Peng said the military is still collecting
information
and data about the procurement plan. "We are mulling whether to buy
US-made
F35s or F-18s or to upgrade our F-16 fleet now in service, " Peng said,
adding that the military must also consider whether the United States
would
sell its most advanced warplanes to Taiwan.

Source: Central News Agency web site, Taipei, in English 0932 gmt 11
Apr 05



PLA purchase of French fighters concerns Taiwan, military says
Air Force chief of staff admits feeling pressure over plan to buy Mirages
2005-04-12 / Taiwan News, Staff Reporter / By Taijing Wu

Taiwan's Air Force is concerned over China's intention to buy French-made Mirage 2000-9 fighters once the European weapon sales embargo on China is lifted, seeing the aircraft as a major threat to the island's air defense systems.

Lieutenant General Peng Sheng-chu, the Air Force's chief of staff, confessed at a Legislative Yuan hearing yesterday that his service felt considerable pressure with the People's Liberation Army planning to purchase 210 Mirage 2000-9CS in the future.

The Taiwanese Air Force currently operates 60 Mirage 2000-5E purchased a decade ago, and hopes to acquire the U.S.-made Joint Strike Fighter F-35 in the future. The Mirage 2000-E is the most expensive fighter that Taiwan has ever bought and two have crashed during routine operations.

The issue surfaced after a Hong Kong newspaper reported on Sunday that the PLA intended to make the purchase, and said the latest version of the Mirage 2000 was far superior to that purchased by Taiwan, an assessment that Peng agreed with.

"The technical specs of this fighter are all newer than those of our fighters. Its land-attack capabilities and range of operation are also superior. This is why the Air Force feels lots of pressure," Peng said.

He added that the Air Force hoped to acquire a third-generation fighter, but it was still gathering information on various models.

"The Air Force is considering many factors for its third-generation fighters. It is primarily thinking about the U.S.-made F-35, F-18 fighter or even upgrading the current F-16. However, it should also think about whether it will be able to buy the fighter it wants," Peng said.

Chinese-language media claim France and China started discussions on the Mirage purchase at end of 2004, and the Chinese authorities have proposed a total arms budget of 12 billion euros for the package that would also include 1,200 Mica missiles and an additional 180 engines for emergency use.

Reports also claimed that around 40 Chinese pilots will go to France to train on the fighter this coming June. Military sources say some have already been sent for training, with 12 having earned their certification to fly the fighters.

Taiwanese military analysts suggested, however, that it would be unreasonable for China's air force to purchase the Mirage fighter.

Military analyst Erich Shih (¬I§µÞ³) told the Taiwan News that the budget to purchase the 210 Mirage 2000-9CS would total half of the PLA's annual military budget, and that the reports might actually be a PLA bluff.

"If it were information about the PLA purchasing submarines or such, it would then be reasonable," Shih said.

"The Mirage 2000 is a very expensive fighter. Those that Taiwan bought a decade ago cost US$50 million each. The new ones should cost around US$60 million each. But for the same budget, the PLA would be able to buy around 500 Russian-made Sukhoi 27 or Sukhoi 30," Shih added.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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It could be a bluff.

China's military purchases are very hard to know until it's actually made.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 03:02 AM
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This very same rumor has been floating around Chinese messageboards for a while. I think that a newspaper simply made it into an article. Doubt it's true, and even if EU sanctions would be withdrawn, which they won't, France selling M2ks will create a s*itstorm in the EU.


If true, however it shows that the PLAAF isn't very happy with the J-10, which is supposed to fill the role these Mirages would fill.

This scenario makes more sense, especially considering reports that the PRC capped their J-10 order to 50 a/c.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
This very same rumor has been floating around Chinese messageboards for a while. I think that a newspaper simply made it into an article. Doubt it's true, and even if EU sanctions would be withdrawn, which they won't, France selling M2ks will create a s*itstorm in the EU.


If true, however it shows that the PLAAF isn't very happy with the J-10, which is supposed to fill the role these Mirages would fill.

This scenario makes more sense, especially considering reports that the PRC capped their J-10 order to 50 a/c.


Theres are couple of rumours going on, the original 50a/c claim was made by Kanwa, which is not really reliable, but then Chinese forums and the hong kong media picked it up and said that China's looking at the french planes.

Some have also said that CHina flew the Rafale and told high command that the J10 wasn't as good and should be stopped.

Most of it has being dismissed as BS since the source Kanwa, ran a story before alledging China had just sunk an Indian Submarine.


First of all, the Mirage is a fighter that would be similar to the Su-27/30's and it's damn expensive. However, the Rafale would make more sense, it is in essence, a light fighter that perfroms similar roles to the J-10.

Also;

Sweden Shows China the Gripen

China's being looking at alot of fighters lately, personally i think that this is a tactic by the PLAAF to confuse everybody.

[edit on 14-4-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by rapier28

Most of it has being dismissed as BS since the source Kanwa, ran a story before alledging China had just sunk an Indian Submarine.


[edit on 14-4-2005 by rapier28]


hehe.. can anyone give me a link to that??
Where did they claim to sink the sub? In the Pacific or in the bay of bengal..



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
hehe.. can anyone give me a link to that??
Where did they claim to sink the sub? In the Pacific or in the bay of bengal..


I got the story.



PLA Reportedly Sinks Intruding Indian Submarine

Hong Kong Hsiang Kang Shang Pao (Internet Version) January 23, 2005

The 2004 year-end joint military exercises held by the Chinese People's Liberation Army [PLA] in the South China Sea had been monitored by the United States, Japan, India, and other countries, as well as by the Taiwan military. Kanwa Defense Review reported that during the exercises, a foreign submarine intruded into Chinese territorial waters and was eventually sunk by the PLA's anti-submarine missiles as it did not heed the PLA's warnings. This submarine could be owned by the Indian military,
according to sources.

At the very onset of the PLA exercises, the United States not only dispatched four reconnaissance planes, two submarines, six warships, and two intelligence vessels to ply the nearby waters and continuously had photographs and information data transmitted back through reconnaissance satellites. To test its Navy's capacities for countering and information-gathering on the Chinese Navy in the future, China's biggest southern neighbor, India, also sent one intelligence vessel, one warship, and two submarines to carry out activities with the United States in the South China Sea. Meanwhile, the Taiwan military also sent one warship and
one submarine to a US fleet for a composite formation.

According to Kanwa Defense Review, when the PLA was about to stage landing maneuvers, its sub-hunter spotted an intruding foreign submarine 20 nautical miles away. The PLA swiftly carried out anti-reconnaissance moves against the submarine and issued a warning signal demanding its immediate withdrawal from the waters 100 nautical miles away. However, the submarine then played hide-and seek with the PLA, enraging PLA commanding officers. After requesting instructions from the chief commander of the exercises, field commanders ordered attacks on the submarine. An anti-submarine helicopter fired two new-type China-made anti-submarine missiles, both of which hit the submarine.

It was reported that the US military was quite surprised and shocked by the new-type anti-submarine missiles China fired. Kanwa cites a reliable source as saying that the submarine was one of the vessels sent by India. Since the incident occurred in Chinese territorial waters, India has to suffer in silence.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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What?! You are joking,right? Why would China need Mirages? Maybe for the avonics I guess, but I think not to replace the J-7 and J-8 as they will probably do so with the J-10s. Anyway, this is just the beginning, who knows, maybe something will come out of it, and maybe nothing.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by rapier28


I got the story.

PLA Reportedly Sinks Intruding Indian Submarine

Hong Kong Hsiang Kang Shang Pao (Internet Version) January 23, 2005

The 2004 year-end joint military exercises held by the Chinese People's Liberation Army [PLA] in the South China Sea had been monitored by the United States, Japan, India, and other countries, as well as by the Taiwan military. Kanwa Defense Review reported that during the exercises, a foreign submarine intruded into Chinese territorial waters and was eventually sunk by the PLA's anti-submarine missiles as it did not heed the PLA's warnings. This submarine could be owned by the Indian military,
according to sources.

At the very onset of the PLA exercises, the United States not only dispatched four reconnaissance planes, two submarines, six warships, and two intelligence vessels to ply the nearby waters and continuously had photographs and information data transmitted back through reconnaissance satellites. To test its Navy's capacities for countering and information-gathering on the Chinese Navy in the future, China's biggest southern neighbor, India, also sent one intelligence vessel, one warship, and two submarines to carry out activities with the United States in the South China Sea. Meanwhile, the Taiwan military also sent one warship and
one submarine to a US fleet for a composite formation.

According to Kanwa Defense Review, when the PLA was about to stage landing maneuvers, its sub-hunter spotted an intruding foreign submarine 20 nautical miles away. The PLA swiftly carried out anti-reconnaissance moves against the submarine and issued a warning signal demanding its immediate withdrawal from the waters 100 nautical miles away. However, the submarine then played hide-and seek with the PLA, enraging PLA commanding officers. After requesting instructions from the chief commander of the exercises, field commanders ordered attacks on the submarine. An anti-submarine helicopter fired two new-type China-made anti-submarine missiles, both of which hit the submarine.

It was reported that the US military was quite surprised and shocked by the new-type anti-submarine missiles China fired. Kanwa cites a reliable source as saying that the submarine was one of the vessels sent by India. Since the incident occurred in Chinese territorial waters, India has to suffer in silence.


nice nice...very good reading!!



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Damn French...ahh, feel much better now.

I think China just wants to buy the upgraded Mirage’s to get the avionics and possibly put it on their J-10’s as I don't think they are happy with its performance. But this deal has little chance of actually going through.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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I think there's very little Chance that China would actually buy Mirages or Gripens. They may just be looking at them for fun. The Swedes like to show off their sexy Gripens too. China already purchased a number of Su-27s, Su-30MKKs, and Su-30MK2s, which are good enough. Plus they're also developing the J-10 at the same time. If they continue to get more aircraft types that have such similar roles, it would become messy (need to provide pilot training and logistics support for more fighter types. Pain in the @ss.)

And if purchasing of Mirages or Gripens for military use is unlikely, reverse engineering of either aircraft would be equally unlikely. If they're just going to reverse engineer those planes, all they need is one or two of each, and wouldn't the French or Swedes find it suspicious that the PLAAF officers came all the way here just to buy one plane?
...
!!!



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