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My Theory For Orchestrated U.S. Prisoner Abuse: Psyop

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posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:10 AM
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So much ink about prisoner abuse by the evil Americans these days.

What is the truth and what is hype? Is it widespread because of poor discipline on the part of U.S. troops, or is there secret approval from somewhere, perhaps U.S. intelligence?

I personally think it is orchestrated from on high, and I think it is part of some sort of psyop.

Of course, accept my usual disclaimer that I am probably wrong about pretty much everything. But...

The Spoiled, Anemic U.S. Soldier

Prior to Abu Ghraib, the tone of the international press was that manly Arab resistance fighters were mopping the streets with wimpy U.S. teenagers.

There were plenty of news articles about it, political cartoons, etc. Iraqi insurgents were tough and fearless, walking barefoot over broken glass to shoot RPGs at terrified American kids huddled together like scared rabbits in their scantily-armored vehicles, basically waiting for what would hopefully be a quick death.

Instead of the “Marlboro Man”, we had Jessica Lynch, a symbol of a physically weak but mentally brave female soldier who was captured and brutalized by the evil insurgents.

Brave but still overpowered and defeated in combat by fearless, ululating Muslim zealots clamoring for martyrdom, a summary for the perception of Iraqi insurgents at the time.

If you were to accept the international press buzz as gospel, the insurgents were winning because they were stronger and more determined than those dainty "spoiled American brats".

The Abu Ghraib Image Makeover

Lo and behold, Abu Ghraib hits the news, and hits hard.

I can't say I've ever seen anything quite like the Abu Ghraib media circus. Have you?

While I suppose it's not unprecedented (remember Watergate, or “Remember the Maine!”), it's still stunning as an example of a recent worldwide media wildfire.

The words “Abu Ghraib” are world famous, and I doubt there is any place in the world you could go where people wouldn't know the meaning of those otherwise obscure words.

Splashed on the front pages of newspapers worldwide were photos of Arab men naked, humiliated, being treated like dogs.

Heck, there was even a picture of a female American soldier holding an Arab detainee on a leash. That picture alone screamed “psyop” to me, and still does.

An American woman holding an Arab man on a leash? Pointing and laughing at their genitals? Yow! It doesn't get any farther below the belt than that!

The message: “Even our women can treat you like dogs.”

Jessica Lynch was avenged.

From Victims To Oppressors

As suddenly as a change in the winds of propaganda, the image of sickly U.S. teenagers being beaten up by burly Arab men was replaced by brutal American “Nazis” committing atrocities against weak, scrawny helpless Arab men who wanted nothing more than to surrender and be left alone.

“Death to America” became “Please Don't Hurt Us!”

And just as suddenly, the criticism went from the U.S. being trapped in a “quagmire” (remember the quagmire?) to urgent pleas that the U.S. reign in its bloodthirsty, trigger-happy, death-crazed “storm troopers” who were killing everything in sight while laughing maniacally and screaming for more innocent blood.

Whether it was a psyop or not, it got the job done. No one is talking about how the Arabs are beating up U.S. troops anymore, are they?

So that's my working theory: That widespread abuse of U.S. detainees is a psyop, and part of a broader psychological warfare campaign that is achieving its desired results.

Now we're the tough guys again.

Take this theory for what it's worth.

Your Mileage May Vary.




posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Instead of the “Marlboro Man”, we had Jessica Lynch, a symbol of a physically weak but mentally brave female soldier who was captured and brutalized by the evil insurgents.

Brave but still overpowered and defeated in combat...


I thought it was well established that this was a crock story propagandised by the powers that be. Surely you don't still buy the Jerry Bruckheimer produced version of events, Majic?



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:30 AM
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Making A Bad Example Of Oneself While Going Off-Topic


Originally posted by cargo
I thought it was well established that this was a crock story propagandised by the powers that be. Surely you don't still buy the Jerry Bruckheimer produced version of events, Majic?

What gave you the mistaken impression that I did? The fact that I included it in a post about psyops and propaganda?

And why do you suggest that I still buy something that I never purchased to begin with? That's an insulting inference I don't care to see made about me.

Why not "Surely you don't still beat your wife, Majic?" Classic false innuendo, and yes, I do take the insult for what it is.

You may want to take your tendency to make false assumptions down a few notches.

It will aid your understanding of the topic and ease my suspicions that you're just interested in spouting disinformation about me or what I believe.

I hate to put it in such harsh terms, but you are way out of line even suggesting such defamatory nonsense about me or what I "buy".

I know the game you're playing here, and don't appreciate you dragging that kind of crap into this thread.

Get real, get honest and get on topic.

The thread isn't abut me, but my theory that widespread U.S. prisoner abuse is probably part of a psyop.

Any comments on the actual topic?



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:55 AM
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majic

I like your theory. It does seem to fit the available information, and as you said, the media has backed off "weak Americans". I don't like the picture it paints of our brave soldiers, but if it does the job, so be it.

edit by Mahree for caps.

[edit on 4/12/2005 by Mahree]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Making A Bad Example Of Oneself While Going Off-Topic


Originally posted by cargo
I thought it was well established that this was a crock story propagandised by the powers that be. Surely you don't still buy the Jerry Bruckheimer produced version of events, Majic?

What gave you the mistaken impression that I did? The fact that I included it in a post about psyops and propaganda?

And why do you suggest that I still buy something that I never purchased to begin with? That's an insulting inference I don't care to see made about me.

Why not "Surely you don't still beat your wife, Majic?" Classic false innuendo, and yes, I do take the insult for what it is.

You may want to take your tendency to make false assumptions down a few notches.

It will aid your understanding of the topic and ease my suspicions that you're just interested in spouting disinformation about me or what I believe.

I hate to put it in such harsh terms, but you are way out of line even suggesting such defamatory nonsense about me or what I "buy".

I know the game you're playing here, and don't appreciate you dragging that kind of crap into this thread.

Get real, get honest and get on topic.

The thread isn't abut me, but my theory that widespread U.S. prisoner abuse is probably part of a psyop.

Any comments on the actual topic?


We agree then.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 06:40 AM
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Majic-

Very interesting theory. I don't know if i fully agree with it, but you just may be on to something. However...


Originally posted by Majic
There were plenty of news articles about it, political cartoons, etc. Iraqi insurgents were tough and fearless, walking barefoot over broken glass to shoot RPGs at terrified American kids huddled together like scared rabbits in their scantily-armored vehicles, basically waiting for what would hopefully be a quick death.


I really don't recall anything like you've described here. Could you post some links to some of the stories and cartoons you've described here, to refresh my memory?

thanks



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:22 AM
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Two Cats In A Shoebox


Originally posted by cargo
We agree then.

Sorry to come off so hard-assed, but picking out a detail like that and shifting attention from the topic to the poster is a classic troll trick.

On reflection, I don't think that was your intention, but I do hope you can understand why I took it that way.

When people make false claims about what I think, I understandably become both offended and suspicious.

I think I'm reasonably skilled at expressing my own beliefs.


Quagmire! Iraq Is Another Vietnam!


Originally posted by negativenihil
I really don't recall anything like you've described here. Could you post some links to some of the stories and cartoons you've described here, to refresh my memory?

I'm surprised you don't remember it, but that's understandable given the rapid pace at which propaganda moves and changes form over time.

If you go to that quagmire search result and click on the images tab to the right, you can see some of the cartoons in question. You can find more on the google image search.

You can also find more with a broader search such as this one (click the images button on the right column), but expect to see lots of Family Guy references.


There was also a lot of propaganda painting Iraq as another Vietnam. The goal of both propaganda efforts was to demoralize U.S. troops and erode both U.S. and worldwide popular support for the war.

There was a lot of propaganda painting U.S. soldiers as being helpless against Iraqi insurgents, but a lot of the original links have expired, either due to natural decay or due to deliberate retractions.

That makes searching hard, but I'll see what I can dig up from my own collection of whoppers.


Remember this one from MoveOn.org?

The Quagmire Propaganda Campaign

The whole “quagmire” propaganda campaign was aimed at making U.S. soldiers seem vulnerable and, by implication, inferior to indigenous insurgent forces, who were portrayed as more highly motivated and generally “tougher” and more “battle-hardened” than those “whiny American kids” who “didn't want to be there”.

Much as in Afghanistan, reporters kept driving home the idea of inexperienced U.S. troops fighting fierce, battle-hardened locals willing to die for their cause. The term “quagmire” was used extensively to describe Afghanistan as well as Iraq. Remember the brutal Afghan winter that was going to decimate U.S. troops?

There's plenty more out there if you're interested, including many editorials and articles reinforcing the image of insurgents brutalizing U.S. soldiers, but bear in mind, a lot of the original sources for that sort of propaganda have “archived” or simply removed those news items for reasons of their own.

For a memory refresher closer to home, ATS has plenty of articles mentioning both the Iraq Quagmire and the Afghanistan Quagmire.

Quagmire Or Not?

Good people can disagree on whether either Afghanistan or Iraq are “quagmires”, but the campaign surrounding their labeling as such is a classic example of genuine propaganda, and to a large extent, disinformation.

Such things are far more pervasive than most people realize, and even folks like myself who study the phenomenon are routinely fooled by such campaigns or overlook them.

But I am always trying to improve my ability to spot this stuff and point it out where I can, because the alternative is thoroughly unpalatable to me.







[edit on 4/12/2005 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
If you go to that quagmire search result and click on the images tab to the right, you can see some of the cartoons in question. You can find more on the google image search.

You can also find more with a broader search such as this one (click the images button on the right column), but expect to see lots of Family Guy references.




Ok, i've been to all of the above links... and i've still yet to come across a cartoon that's shown the us soldiers as weak or cowering. There are plenty mocking the various people in leadership positions, soldiers with targets taped to their back, but nothing showing our troops as weak. I went through the first 6 pages of each of the images searchs you've linked to.

How about a direct link?

You mentioned you had some of these images in a stash of your own. If you need some web space to put them up to share, i'd be happy to provide you with space on my server. let me know


As for the MoveOn ad - i really don't feel that was intended to make the soldiers look weak - more like a comment on the entire situation in iraq. *shrug*

[edit on 12-4-2005 by negativenihil]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by negativenihil]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Your Op just cost a few soliders lifetime in prison for the abuse.. I am sure it's all just TV.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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Majic, this is actually quite funny, not your story, but the fact that i AGREE with your theory. not necessarily that it was a PLANNED event, but that it was used to our advantage after the fact, as you may know, those involved will still be serving military time and getting discharges and whatnot.

on the other hand, do you think maybe Gitmo was used similarly? not necessarily that there were never any abuses, but that what little there may have been were blown out of proportion for the purpose of deterring further terrorist attacks on western countries? message being: if you commit a terrorist act, you end up here, where you will endure being stripped of your rights, abused and humiliated to a severe degree. and then there's the possibility you may be taken to Egypt and tortured. and then there's the possibility you may just vanish without a trace.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by fledgling666]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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IMHO, Abu Gharib was a real whoops. Nick Berg was the psy/op response.

Not to cherry pick your post, but just respond in some context:


Originally posted by Majic
I can't say I've ever seen anything quite like the Abu Ghraib media circus. Have you?


Yes. Nick Berg, just days after.


While I suppose it's not unprecedented (remember Watergate, or “Remember the Maine!”), it's still stunning as an example of a recent worldwide media wildfire.


I think "remember the beheadings" (all of which came after Abu Gharib) quickly rose to equal counterspeak (even trump) status of "Remember Abu Gharib."


The words “Abu Ghraib” are world famous, and I doubt there is any place in the world you could go where people wouldn't know the meaning of those otherwise obscure words.


Now that's true.
Though for the most part it's been neutered in it's infamy as a "late night TV joke" or a mere "liberal talking point" or "hand wringing International-only concern" in comparison to the post justification of such "warranted" treatment, because after all... "remember the beheadings?"

RTB is second only to remember 9/11 in my big book of emotional appeals. But then I may have a very different book.


I also personally have a different opinion as to when things got ugly in Iraq, regardless of how media reported it. Attacks and death tolls are much worse now and keep getting worse. I considered the whole "quagmire" pretty much a cake walk joke [including Jessica's or(book)deal], until the beheadings started. Which in my mind started with the very special and timely beheading of Nick Berg after Abu Gharib.

I won't derail with those details again here, but all those research posts (many by Valhall) need to be bumped, reviewed and discussed once in a while. I think the Nick Berg psyop is one we can almost prove. Shame on us for losing interest.

But it's an interesting view Majic. There was something afoot in that short span between Abu Gharib and Nick Berg. No doubt about it.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 11:28 AM
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You Get What You Pay For


Originally posted by negativenihil
Ok, i've been to all of the above links... and i've still yet to come across a cartoon that's shown the us soldiers as weak or cowering. There are plenty mocking the various people in leadership positions, soldiers with targets taped to their back, but nothing showing our troops as weak. I went through the first 6 pages of each of the images searchs you've linked to.

How about a direct link?

You mentioned you had some of these images in a stash of your own. If you need some web space to put them up to share, i'd be happy to provide you with space on my server. let me know

I may spend some more time digging some of that up, but not right now, and maybe never.

I do have a lot of images, thousands and thousands of all kinds dating back years, but they cover all sorts of things, most of them not cartoons, and that are almost all unsorted (to my embarrassment).

If you want some specific examples, by all means go look for them. If not, and you think I'm misrepresenting what was going on before Abu Ghraib, you are free to do so, and I won't mind. Honest.


Not Ancient History

But it was only a couple of years ago, and I remember the phenomenon well enough to post confidently about it from memory.

Maybe someone else with more extra time than I have can dig for them, but I'm not all that interested in spending a lot of time on a tangential issue.

Whether you accept this aspect of my thesis or not is up to you. Further research on it is up to me, and for now, I have other things that interest me more.

But here's a freebie to get the idea across:



And it's hardly the only one, or the worst.


P.S. I understand what you're getting at, appreciate your interest in more information, and wish I could be more accommodating, but I'm spread pretty thin as it is.


But good luck though, if you decide to look into this more.


[edit on 4/12/2005 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
If you want some specific examples, by all means go look for them. If not, and you think I'm misrepresenting what was going on before Abu Ghraib, you are free to do so, and I won't mind. Honest.



My point isn't to lessen your theory or to claim you are mis-representing anything - i'm just looking for the facts


My offer for web space still stands if you do wish to share your collection of images.





And it's hardly the only one, or the worst.


You know, imo this seems like we are both interpreting something different from this cartoon. IMO this is a jab at Jessica Lynch more than anything. Not a jab at the troops in general.

But we must keep in mind that no 2 people are going to see the same meaning to any piece of art.

Anyway, again, i want to stress that i'm not here to try and discredit you or anything like that. Just trying to have a conversation on an interesting theory backed by fact



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Doing Exactly What I Like To See Done


Originally posted by negativenihil
Anyway, again, i want to stress that i'm not here to try and discredit you or anything like that. Just trying to have a conversation on an interesting theory backed by fact

No, I don't see it that way. I do sense some skepticism about that aspect of my assertion, or at least hope I do, because that's a Good Thing.


I'm mainly frustrated that I can't give you more hard data to support this aspect of my thesis.

Again, I think it is commendable to want more info and substantiation on this, and thus my carping is mainly a lament of my own shortcomings with respect to presenting supportive background data.


Always be skeptical, and please accept my grumblings as a compliment colored by my own disappointment in not being able to better demonstrate the "before/after" effects with more solid examples.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
No, I don't see it that way. I do sense some skepticism about that aspect of my assertion, or at least hope I do, because that's a Good Thing.


It wouldn't be ATS without some skepticism




Again, I think it is commendable to want more info and substantiation on this, and thus my carping is mainly a lament of my own shortcomings with respect to presenting supportive background data.


Always be skeptical, and please accept my grumblings as a compliment colored by my own disappointment in not being able to better demonstrate the "before/after" effects with more solid examples.


When i get home from work tonight i'm going to see what i can dig up. I will be sure to share any findings.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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I really believe there's a difference in well orchestrated psyops and just plain dumbasses.

As demonstrated in demeanor here.


And something to this Berg/ Abu Gharib timeline (one net example)


- Dec. 21. Nicholas Berg goes to Iraq to explore business opportunities.

- Jan. 26. CNN reports on potential abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Gharib prison in Iraq with pictures being taken. A blurb on this appears 1 week before, also, but with not as much detail.

- Feb. 1. After making contact with a company that indicates there likely will be work for him, Berg leaves Iraq.

- March 14. Berg returns to Iraq.

- March 24. Berg tells his parents he is coming home on March 30 to be in a friend's wedding. The same day, he is detained by Iraqi police at a Mosul checkpoint. At some point during his 13-day detention, U.S. officials take custody of him.

- March 30. Berg's father, Michael, goes to John F. Kennedy International Airport, but Berg is not on his scheduled flight.

- March 31. In West Chester, the FBI interviews Michael and Suzanne Berg. A spokesman said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

- April 5. The Bergs file suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

- April 6. Nicholas Berg is released.

- April 9. Berg communicates for the last time with his parents, telling them he will come home through Jordan.

- April 10. Last known sighting of Nick Berg alive in a hotel.

- April 28. CBS's 60 Minutes II shows the pictures of Abu Gharib on their broadcast

- May 8. Berg's decapitated body is found near a highway in Baghdad.

- May 10. State Department officials notify the Berg family of his death.

- May 11. Berg's death is announced via an Arab website.


End Abu Gharib #storm. Enter Nick Berg mea culpa.

If I'm dead wrong, I'll leave you to the exploration of the Abu-Only theory... but the ties that bind don't point to Jessica IMO. If she's part of this at all, it's the short leg on the table.

Majic, I know you're getting at the creation of a "big bad" US public image theory (which I'd say was more needed after no Shock & Awe than the Lynch letdown), but we (someone) made the "bad guys" sooooooooo much more evil than the goofy oversexed prison guards a week after Abu Gharib, it just doesn't make sense to me.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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You raise an interesting question, but a point to consider:

The Interrogators at Abu Ghraib were employees of CACI International Inc., and the MP's were acting under orders by officers of that company. Thus, if there were any psyop agenda, it would be either in the Pentagon's original contract (which was bought by CACI), or CACI's alternate agenda after buying up Premier Technologies (the original holders of the contract). However, as a psyop like Abu Ghraib would have no profitable effect for the company, I doubt it was their idea.
(source article)

This leaves only The Pentagon. While I have no doubt they use psychological warfare, and wouldn't put it past them to have an abuse scandal magically come to light, it would be one hell of a gamble in the eyes of the world. After all, if America, the World's Police, is going to start using torture methods, then why should the rest of the world act any different? And come to that, why follow the Geneva Convention at all? A chemical weapon here, a biological weapon there... and pretty soon troops are fighting within mustard gas again.

I think that, like the war in Iraq, it's merely the current administration's complete lack of regard for the Geneva Convention, and the consequences of their short-sightedness.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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I don't see how anybody, including those in the Middle East could think that the U.S. military was weak in comparison to a country that was a complete pushover to invade and occupy with resistence fighters having only the basics of munitions. I mean the war was declared a "Mission Accomplished" just a few weeks into the violence. Wars are usually far more prolonged before any type of victory is declared. So any idea that muslim resistence felt like it could take on a force that could trample over a country in weeks is surely delusional.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Your "compilation" has more merit than most realize, RANT filled in the gaps fairly well.

It was all orchistrated from above, soldiers don't do anything with out being given "OPORD" or knowing the "SOP". Those who can not see what is in front of them for what it is, are choosing thier ignorance.

Propaganda and psyops go hand in hand, almost indistinguishable, but a line exists. However I may be very biased in this case, since I've the tendancy to think everything is propaganda and or a psyop.
One way or another it is.

HOP

HOP2

Believe what you want, it don't make it any more true.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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It was all orchistrated from above, soldiers don't do anything with out being given "OPORD" or knowing the "SOP". Those who can not see what is in front of them for what it is, are choosing thier ignorance.



Hmmm...... I remember voicing just such an opion back during the whole Abu Grhab affair. I stopped though after getting slammed by a Mod. I actually left ATS for about 2 months since (I did not know what I was talking about). Glad that I am not the only one who saw this.



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