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Pictures - Sweden Shows China the Gripen

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posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Cjwinnit

BAE has too much buiness in the States to risk by selling stuff to the Chinese.


That works the other way round as well, BAe (yes, its a small e, not a bi e - pet peeve
) can put a lot of Americans out of jobs.




posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Er, you know I say my mood is 'mr pedantic'? Well actually it is BAE, all capitalised, since the creation of BAE Systems, you can check out their own website. I always preferred BAe however, it was a small touch of individualism that has now been lost.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Sorry, mindfart on my part. British, I meant, but with American inputs on engine, etc.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
Er, you know I say my mood is 'mr pedantic'? Well actually it is BAE, all capitalised, since the creation of BAE Systems, you can check out their own website. I always preferred BAe however, it was a small touch of individualism that has now been lost.


Bah, thats a recent change then :/ As you say, BAe was preferable because it adds something to the name. It will always be BAe to me.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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I don't think the Chinese will buy the Gripen. Its probably just a good will visit nothing more than that.





West Point, Out.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Where did BAE come into all of this??


And as a separate query, do all you brits out there think that the UK will jump at chinese military offers once the ban is lifted?



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Where did BAE come into all of this??


And as a separate query, do all you brits out there think that the UK will jump at chinese military offers once the ban is lifted?


BAE supplies a lot of the electronics and systems for the Grippen, which is a joint venture between Saab Aerospace Division and BAE, with BAE doing much of the foreign sales to date. How it came into the conversation is that someone mentioned that an American company owned a large share in Saab, and someone pointed out that yes, but that was the car side of the business, not the aircraft side of the business which is completely seperate.

Jack Straw (UK Foreign Secretary) has so far been against a lifting of the ban, but if it is lifted, theres very little stopping BAE and other UK arms firms exporting goods to China themselves, so long as it breaches no law - and with the EU ban gone, there are very few laws to breach. BAE etc are businesses, just the same as Walmart, and if sales to China will bring in money without doing much damage to their public relations, then chances are they will do it.

I see no reason not to sell to China, their human rights may not be the best in the world but its definately improved over the years, and you dont get anywhere by ignoring a nation, you just end up with something like North Korea if you do that. The best way to help improve a nation is to give them opportunities to make money. Vietnam is largely capitalist now, Nike and other western companies succeeded where the US Airforce and bombs failed. Thirty five years ago vietnamise children had to work in the paddy fields, now with the advent of 10 years of capitalism and Nike factories in Vietnam (theres a couple of dozen or so i think), parents can afford to keep their children in education. Theres an article someolace, I shall see if i can dig it up

[edit on 15/4/2005 by RichardPrice]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 02:54 AM
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Probably teh Chinese requested it. They"re tring to porbably copy the Gripen's avionics because they want to replace they"re old screwed up MiG planes



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 02:57 AM
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Heres the Vietnamise article incase anyones interested:

johannorberg.net...

I found it to be enlightening, especially with this happening:

news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 03:09 AM
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Just do it.


Engagement, not isolation or containment will avoid war. Containment and isolation will bring on the next world war.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by rapier28

Originally posted by ufo3
I am concerned that China will just buy ''a bit of everything'' so it can reverse engineer and catch up to the west in tech. It will not take them long with the amount of scientists they potentially have locked up in a 1BN+ population.


Why would China need to lock up scientists?

China is paying huge sums of money to ex-soviet scientists to work on the space program and others.

I see the Gripen visit as a friendly military visit, mabye with some electronics sales in mind. But remember, the U.S carrier Abraham Lincoln ported at Hong Kong recently, and the flagship of the 7th fleet also visited China a week ago.

Military exchanges happen.


U completely misunderstood me, when i say locked up i mean as in potential not literally locked behind bars.






posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by ufo3
U completely misunderstood me, when i say locked up i mean as in potential not literally locked behind bars.



Oh i c.




posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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Maybe China is trying to get how it all works in case they need to defend them selves against it



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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Daedulus,

I think you will find that given the opportunity Boeing et al would sell military hardware to China.

Including the F-35 and F-22.

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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^^^
Sure..
Boeing and the others would love to take a bite out of that big chinese defence pie..
but then again... they won't be allowed to..
Just like until recently no US military firm was allowed to sell to India..
(nuke test sanctions)



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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Daedulus,

Can I ask you an honest question?

Do you feel that it is acceptable for EU companies to sell to China?

Could you justify your answer as well?

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Daedulus,

Can I ask you an honest question?

Do you feel that it is acceptable for EU companies to sell to China?

Could you justify your answer as well?

Cheers

BHR


Im indian so i cannot answer that form the EU's point of view..
But as an Indian I hope as hell that it doesn't happen!!
Here's a primer to what may happen..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

wickerd huh?!



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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have we forgotten WWII, ford, i.g. farben, krupp, prescott bush, etc.?

american industrialists made WWII possible by supplying and financing the nazi war machine. why are we so myopic to think it's any different now? the us WANTS an arms build-up in china. it's an excuse to war, which is profitable, and it is those who profit that make the decisions. simple, really. vile and simple.

it's called 'the war machine'. it is really 'the war organism', and continues to evolve. it needs'food', which is of course, conflict. the industrialists think that the war organism serves them, but it reality, it uses them to increase it's own intelligence and power.
they should start showing 'terminator', and 'the demon seed' in schools. and of course, the matrix trilogy.



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