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Summarized - Building a time machine

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posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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An earlier topic addressed the topic of time, and more accurately how to build a time machine. Subtopics addressed were;

Time travel and the implications, Paradox theory and whether it can or cannot occur, gravitron and singularity theory, black holes, string theory, various philosophical subtopics, the list goes on.


Now it has been extrapolated that the following is required to time travel:

a) Immense Gravitational warping

The extreme "bending" or curvature of space time i.e: Black hole / Exploding Supernova

b) a Singularity

c) To travel forward in time (by the theory of Relativity);

one must travel at, or near the speed of light. Relativity is the slowing of time as one gains speed, while to travel back and forth through time "at will" one would have to find a means to travel across the 11 dimensions

(string theory...long story)

String Theory - NOVA

d) A more obscure theory is of Hyper-oscillation

If one were able to create oscillations and resonance higher than their current dimension, they would faze out into a high dimension OR at least be able to VIEW a higher dimension.

e) finally a wormhole;
that would transport us to a previous instant on our plane of existence

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below are all the information links from the previous thread summarised into one concise selection


Time Loop
Astronomy today - Black Holes
Bending light and the curvature of spacetime
Light REFRACTION
Time travel for Beginners
Wikipedia - Time travel
Nova on time travel






[edit on 11-4-2005 by Shadow88]

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Shadow88]
*fixed caps lock in title*

[edit on 11-4-2005 by dbates]




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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You'll need one more very important item for time travel... travel. Surely, in your research, you've discovered that everything moves relative to each other. The position in space you occupy right now, is not the same position you occupied when you began reading this response. If one were to solve the seemingly impossible complexities of traversing back in time, solving the complex computations of locating the desired point of entry (back in time) is at least as difficult.
Which point of reference is our center?
With all clues as to what might be the center traveling at the speed of light (relative to our observation), how can we be certain of the precise center now, and in the targeted time?

Next, are you aware of the more recent thinking on the lines of singularities? Recent work by George Chapline indicates black holes may not exist at all (as Einstein believed). Speculative fiction writer and noted physicist, Gregory Benford speculated in this direction in his novel, Cosm.

Even still, the heavy gravity of such an object (singularities) only slows time relative to the observer, and does not reverse it. So I'm not sure how you can express that "it has been extrapolated" that singularities are "required" for time travel.

Also, regarding traveling "forward" in time, you seem to be missing the relativistic basics. Time (very close to the speed of light) slows, as mentioned above, relative to the observer. This means that outside the relativistic influence, time marches forward at "normal speed" (in theory). Thus, if the observer were to stop the relativistic effects, it will appear as though forward travel in time has occurred.

These items effect the speed for which local time progresses for the observer, not external time.


See my short story The transmission of flight number eight for an alternative look at some of these concepts.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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travelling through time using wormholes or warping space time in the way stated above is a completely different science than relativistically travelling forward in time.

Travelling relativistically one can speed up toward the speed of light and time slows down (whether perseptively or actually as is debated, obviously no one has yet carried out this experiment)
one cannot go back in time relativistically, simply slow the passage of time.

The latter theories however allow for a person to travel to any time on their plane of existence by passing through a wormhole, or travelling through a singularity (the centre of a black hole - However in a black hole well....you'd die)



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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1) What about the article on "black holes"?

2) Forget, for a moment of the effects of gravity on yourself, how would you resolve the issue of finding the correct location in time AND space?



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Yeah...what SO said...and why are you screaming!?



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Black holes are not tunnels through space time, they are pits in space time (if they exist at all) in other words if you were to travel down one you would find a pocket of space so terrable that atoms are ripped apart, thats if you had some magical way of surviving, one of our shuttles would be destroyed long before it ever got close.

Wormholes are theorised to lead through space and not time. The term 'folding space' might be more accurate as wormholes are not the light filled tunnels of science fiction, the travel would be instantaneus.

The problem of accurate entry coordinates is a problem but not an impossible one to over come. as we are on a moving ball of rock we know where we were in space yesterday, so to work out an entry point based on our own planets orbit (although a huge task worthy of a quantum computer) isnt impossible however if I was to build a time machine I would build it in space far from any planetary body so my entry vector would only have to be a very educated rough estimate.




[edit on 11-4-2005 by Motile]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Motile
The problem of accurate entry coordinates is a problem but not an impossible one to over come. as we are on a moving ball of rock we know where we were in space yesterday, so to work out an entry point based on our own planets orbit (although a huge task worthy of a quantum computer) isnt impossible however if I was to build a time machine I would build it in space far from any planetary body so my entry vector would only have to be a very educated rough estimate.
[edit on 11-4-2005 by Motile]


Building on this you could use what Titor claimed to have on his time machine.



There is a system of clocks and gravity sensors that sample the environment before dropping out. Its called VGL, (variable gravity lock). If a cement block were there, the machine would �backtrack� until it sensed relative congruity to the original gravity sample. A great deal of time and effort goes into picking just the right spot since you can not physically move during a displacement.




The unit�s sensors take a �snapshot� of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere).




This is done through a system called VGL (variable gravity lock). Basically, the unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the "trip" in pulses. If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself to the last sample period where the readings were correct. If there is some sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 04:50 AM
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SkepticOverlord what article on black holes?? sorry if ive missed it


Lady V im not screaming??? if you are referring to the italics it was simply to make it easier to read.

SkepticOverlord please explain the problem about finding the correct time and space?

And yes i know about the fact that everything is destroyed in aq black hole, its just one theory is that if one were able to pass through the centre of a black hole that they would shoot out in another time and place. or something to that affect...

and yes.....again this is impossible etc etc.......

as a further back entry yousaid about travel needed, yes i didnt mention that as i thought that was a given.

there is substantial evidence for black holes, but, for the sake of argument and the fact that it is irrelevent even IF black holes could propel you to some far off time and place as AGAIN...you'd die


SO!
excluding black holes and travelling faster than light, i am going to research what is neccesary (and attainable by man) for time travel.


[edit on 12-4-2005 by Shadow88]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 04:56 AM
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And btw......JOHN TITOR SUCKS ok get over it he is fake

for all his propaganda he has yet to travel through time.
am i correct?

unless he did?? if he did i'll eat my......shirt buttons

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Shadow88]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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accutly the most important thing you need for time travel is a Delorean with a flux capasiter and a teen rock star want to be .



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Shadow88
And btw......JOHN TITOR SUCKS ok get over it he is fake


Excuse me? did i say he was real? Did you even read my post?

No, i was just suggesting possible ways you could over come some of the problems that SkepticOverlord was talking about by using an idea that came from Titor (or who ever created Titor). I never said he was real, it was just a suggestion about how someone might over come a problem.

In future i'll just leave your threads to be pulled apart by people that have a better grip on the subject matter than you obviously do.

Actually, rereading the post i can understand why you said that. This explains it


SkepticOverlord please explain the problem about finding the correct time and space?


Once you've grasped this then reread the bit about Titor i posted. His supposed "VGL" is ment to fix just that problem.

And in future don't just jump on some one with "THATS FAKE GET OVER IT"
Look at what there saying. Just because something is fake or fiction doesn’t mean it cant have helpful things to say.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Shadow88
SkepticOverlord what article on black holes?? sorry if ive missed it

In my first response to you:
www.nature.com...



SkepticOverlord please explain the problem about finding the correct time and space?

I already did in my first response in this thread.



And yes i know about the fact that everything is destroyed in aq black hole, its just one theory is that if one were able to pass through the centre of a black hole that they would shoot out in another time and place. or something to that affect...

Never heard this before. The theory around these items (which now seems they don't exist at all), is that we have inescapable gravity... which means nothing can "pass through".



there is substantial evidence for black holes

Read the article.



i am going to research what is neccesary (and attainable by man) for time travel.

If time travel is possible, why aren't we seeing time travelers? Only one hoax so far... not travelers.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:08 AM
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ok for Burgess an Skeptic_Overlord i didnt read what you were trying to explain to me carefully enough. SORRY!
i had 2 pop out in 20 minutes so i skimmed across it all sorry

And in the case of all the black hole malarkey lets just agree that any theories, and the like can't be proven at this time so we should drop it.

So just to clarify....ehem....THE FASTER YOU GO, TIME SLOWS DOWN.....rite?


but! lets just say, hypothetically, that i want to travel in time, but i dont want to go to a million times light speed or wateva and come back and everyone i know and love is dead.

forgetting all the insane, complicated stuff that has been posted above, how would one in theory, build a machine, that allows them to go to 1969, and come back, then go watch christ being born or wateva they like to do, and come back etc. etc......


[edit on 12-4-2005 by Shadow88]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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Uh... you can't forget all the "malarkey" and "insane, complicated stuff" because it's all part of the same problem.

You can't go back to 1969 unless you know where the physical location you're targeting at that time will be. If you're off by a microsecond or yard, the results could be catastrophic.

If you go back, you would be in the past, where the future has not yet happened... there is no guarantee that if you were able to go into the past, you could return to something that has not yet happened.

And yes, local time does indeed slow down as you approach relativistic speeds. But that's all it is, local time of the observer. External time is not altered.


Didn't you say you already had plans? Now it seems like you're rather confused.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

If you go back, you would be in the past, where the future has not yet happened... .




This is where I get messed up in time , Does't there have to be something there?



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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I know im just researching i previously wasnt bothered about the "relativity" idea because Obviously i cant get into space and go to lightspeed"

i also didnt mean it like that about malarkey and what I said. I simply meant can we stop talking about black holes and relativity.
it is getting old because there is no way we can test those things so the conversation around THEM is not very constructive in my opinion. but hey if you want 2 carry on talking about them i guess i will.

(also as a different but related article, did you read the article in the news about scientists creating a fireball inside a particle accelerator with properties of a black hole? obviously it isnt actually a black hole as even a small one would have instantly sucked us and the surrounding area in
as for the plans i do have initial "on paper" plans for a device that if the calculations are correct it could create effects or have properties neccesary for time travel. at no point did i say THIS DEVICE IS BUILT AND WORKS AND I CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME like JT etc etc.....

btw Physics is by farrrrrrrrrrrrr my absolute best and favorite subject.

(do i sound ratty?
sorry if i come off as angry or anything that is totally not my intention
dont take it personalli!)



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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SpittinCobra what exactly do you mean?

that quote in particular means that if you build the time machine, travel back to before you built it or perhaps before the materials were even dug up, then it is hard to explain how the device would be there right in front of you in 600 BC or whenever.

sorry im not sure what you mean
tiz probably just me

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Shadow88]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Shadow88]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Shadow88
SpittinCobra what exactly do you mean?

Skeptic_Overlord that quote in particular means that if you build the time machine, travel back to before you built it or perhaps before the materials were even dug up, then it is hard to explain how the device would be there right in front of you in 600 BC or whenever.


Ok, so it would be hard to explain but there is reality there, not just time and space, I was seeing as if there would be a void.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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...it is getting old because there is no way we can test those things so the conversation around THEM is not very constructive in my opinion.


Well if you're going to look at it like that we should drop the whole discussion on time travel now as there is no way to test any of the ideas brought up in this thread



at no point did i say THIS DEVICE IS BUILT AND WORKS AND I CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME like JT etc etc.....


hmmm, surely that should have read


at no point did i say THIS DEVICE IS BUILT AND WORKS AND I CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME like the hoaxer behind JT claimed he could etc etc.....


After all, JOHN TITOR SUCKS ok get over it he is fake.


Sorry just had to....



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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um no if you went back to lets say 600BC and tryed returned to the present Skeptic_Overlord was sayin he wasnt sure you would be able to accurately return to the moment after you left.....is that right???


ok im seeming too puzzled its just i still dont know what your asking me Spittin_cobra soz




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