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Originally posted by jbond007
Until Jon Peniel can prove the claims in his book, I consider him a fraud and charlatan.
If he would simply PROVE his accomplishments via an autobiography with credible sources, all criticisms would become moot. In fact, if he did come forward with definitive proof of his life story, it would be one of, if not THE, greatest story of any one man's life. But since he is unwilling to come forward with proof of his training in Tibet, .....
working extensively with The Moody Blues, Neil Young, The Beatles, John Lennon (including the song "Imagine"), invited to be a Grammy Award judge, his academic research at UCLA and other institutions, etc., all he really has to show for his life is an ability to conglomerate new age/spiritual material and make it clear and easy to read -- possibly catering to the uneducated new age market.
For those of us who have been through college and beyond we have learned the tenets the LTA presents, and more, in our philosophy, humanities, other related classes, and through life itself. We've also learned about true science and how experimental proof is king. Peniel expects us to instead "feel the truth" without providing and real,
Originally posted by jbond007
Of course, if you have doubts or concerns and approach him with them you're chastised and considered "lower consciousness" because you can't "feel the truth". This type of teaching is an earmark of a cult leader and described extensively in Singer's book (more on that below).
I think Jon Peniel truly DOES want to live the utopian lifestyle described in the book and lives by the teachings he presents. However, this lifestyle treads on delicate ground because the CLO does accept "students" under Jon's authoritarian direction.
In fact, many techniques used by the CLO easily pass many of the criteria of being a cult. Marget Singer's (UC-Berkeley Emeritus Professor) book, "Cults in our Midst". It's is a GREAT book and you will find many parallels between the CLO and destructive cult behavior within it.
One of many examples is the Star Exercise (talked about above by some people in this thread and is highly touted by the CLO). The Star Exercise is just a form of hyperventilation which many cults commonly employ in different ways.
There's absolutely nothing spiritual or profound about it, it's just simple hyperventilation which can cause tingling, fainting, euphoric feelings and other symptoms.
Additionally, I believe part of the "real story" of Jon Peniel is that he was born in LA and at some point came in contact with the Source Family, which was a popular cult in the 60's in the LA area. He was known as "Zoroaster" within their group, and played guitar in their band. Check out www.yahowha.org... for more information on the Source Family. Also check out their newly released (2007) book and DVD documenting their history -- very interesting. Interestingly, the back of their book says that they are confident that one of their former members who left the group in 1971 -- Zoroaster -- a great guitarist, wrote the Lost Teachings of Atlantis book using Source Family history (i.e., no hidden Tibet Monastery, etc). It seems Peniel used the utopian Tibetan setting as an allegory for his time spent in the Source Family. Jim Baker, the "Father" of the Source Family is most certainly the "Zain" Peniel describes in LTA.
As of right now nobody knows who "Jon Peniel" is. We don't know his real name, we don't know where he is located (the CLO changes location every couple of months) we don't know if his book is truly non-fiction because of the lack of proof, and Peniel has resisted to divulge any corroborating information under the guise of "the teachings are what matter". That is a big red flag to me. You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by whargoul
This is utter BS and shows a missunderstanding in atomic structure! Electrons orbit in a "cloud" and can be anywhere at anytime (even to the point of seeming to be the same place at the same time). Planet's orbit stars in defined elipses... Hope that wasn't Atlantian knowledge. This just drives the point home that the people writing this stuff don't know squat and dont care!
Originally posted by Hollywood11
The point is, whether it is Planets, electrons, electricity, batteries, gender in animals, there is always the same order and interaction between positive and negative polarities, Yin and Yang is throughout all creation. A planet orbits a sun in The EXACT same way a female orbits a male, and the EXACT same way an electron orbits a nucleus.
Originally posted by Hollywood11
That's the weakest argument I've probably ever heard against anything. What you are doing is playing semantics. If you really want to argue like that, you are simply arguing semantics. OF course there is no such thing as an "orbit", since this is western terminology based on the illusions of the 5 senses.
We are simply using the term "orbit" so that people from modern society can understand the concept and relationship between all things in the universe. If you want to use terminology that actually has a basis in reality,the terminology would be Yin and Yang.
A planet orbits a sun in The EXACT same way a female orbits a male, and the EXACT same way an electron orbits a nucleus.
Originally posted by Hollywood11When we say something is "orbiting" something else, that means it is the Yin aspect and what it is orbiting is the Yang aspect. Truthfully orbits don't exist, only Yin and Yang exists.
Your science and data are a joke. The human mind can never percieve truth until it undergoes a Near Death Experience,
However, when the systems are carefully analyzed and compared critically, it becomes obvious that the CLO and Source family systems are completely different from each other and not related.
The CLO system on the other hand is exactly in line with and exactly what we would expect to find an ancient school of spiritual cultivation would be like. It's completel systematic and one whole system. Clearly the CLO is a true lineage that is completely balanced and whole, it's not a mish mash of a whole bunch of systems mixed together like the Source familiy system.
It has to come from within, the student has to be sensitive to truth,
Originally posted by Harte
Really? Then why do you use the term "EXACT..."
Obviously, these things are not only not "EXACT," but none of the three are even related in the tiniest degree.
If you really think that science has no idea, I maintain that you should cease using scientific terminology such as the word "orbit" itself.
If science is a joke, what paradigm of "critical analysis" are you using here?
How, without the modern concept of the scientific method, can one tell whether a set of postulates is complete and systematic?
Hmmm. This does sound like a cult.
when you have a whole world full of people who selfishly care more about themselves than others, you have a world such as it is today.