can india make decent fighter

also if the LCA was such an advanced fighter why would india be looking at aircraft from different countries. It would only be facing the fc-1 pakistans gettin

also chinas ecomony can Sustain military growth.

chinas military budget 60billion

indas 14 billion

read the indian view of LCA

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

think the LCA is good read this

www.indiadefence.com...

it was written by INDIA DEFENCE CONSULTANTS so they wont hide the truth

as for the zhuhai airshow you can just do google search

also the american airforce is only getting 442 f-22 at the start of the program they were ment to get 648. that 442 has to replace 918 f-15in serivice

jiatelin.jschina.com.cn...
jiatelin.jschina.com.cn...

that 442 planes has to share between coast guard or whatever its called and the airforce. just imagine the us airforce with only 300-350 aircraft wont they try to do something to get more.

dont tell me about the JSF because their replacing f-16 and f-18s

[edit on 15-4-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
i did post this thread in ats they moved it here

Oh, ok then, my mistake and my apologies.

I'll post my reply in both threads and leave it to the mods to see what they do. If its ok with them, I'd like to continue convo in the existing LCA thread, so that there is continuity of discussion and not as much thread 'proliferation' (making it easier to read)

-Raj

ok rajkhalsa2004 ill just talk in LCA thread i only made this thread because i thought LCA was dead no had siad anything in like 1-2 weeks

Originally posted by chinawhite


air combat between india and pakistan

pakistan 25 india 19

also pakistan were mainly using f-86 planes(old ass) againest modern mig-21

the compostie materials in the LCA are to keep the weight down because the engine cant handle the pressure

also they dont want to buy the mirage they just went there to check it out.

there not just building 50 j-10s 50 this year. and alo every military program in china is secret

any link on f-22 crash

also the Shenzhou was teleivised live it was just announced 1 week before it happened.

also size doesn't play an important part in how stealthy the aircraft is. look at the b2 its huge.

ur right the Lca has about the same RCS as a f-16 but so what i just said it didn't have the RCS to make it a stealth plane.

as for the deburkin claim it was westpoint he deburks anything unamerican. but i dunno where the link is gone.

also u cant judge anything about the j-10 no one knows anything about it . etc where its deployed wat marking not even what radar or engine

also the mirage and gripen

also the mirage 2000-9 is not a multi-role fighter its a strike aircraft. we already have a very capable aircraft is called su-30mkk. this information is from a taiwanese newspaper.

When you post your information give a link or some shiet like that.
If you want link from me just ask.

china is a very free counrty. statements like this

I use d the figure 15 not as a exact source quoted figure but as a figure of speech.. mainly trying to highlight the fact that the chinese govt. will clamp down on any failures or twist them to seem positive..Its just how communist govts behave..

comes from someone that has never been to china or reads a time magazine. you'vre never been there dont comment on china polictial system.

Also like me clarify that tiannamen square was a nessary. it was 1989 and china only begun reforms in 1979 the country was spilt between pro market forces and pro communist forces. if we didn't crack down on the students china would of haved a civil war. (trust me) i was born in 1989 july 2 my dad escaped china on the same year i am living in australia and lived in china from 1995-1997. i experience first hand chinese life (also because im chinese).
the communist system is the right government for china. we had a weak goverment in the years 1926-1949 it was very chaotic because chinese need a strong goverment to keep clam. look at the history of china everytime it was in chaos it had a weak government.

Also this a about indian making a good aircraft not polictial systems

[edit on 15-4-2005 by chinawhite]

25 to 19 is not a big difference in a war..
Esp.. when 3 of those kills are taxiing runway kills..
note at acig.org TACDE/INAS
Also India won that war and the prevoius one hands down..

out of those 25 IAF jets downed only 2 were interceptor types...
one your MiG21FL and the other a GNAT...
The rest were all fighter bombers/pure bombers shot down on raids at pak airfields/industries etc..
Namely vampire,hunters and the canberra
As i said in a war when evenly matched the offensive force bears the brunt of
casualties as it is the one taking risks...Most of the PAF was decimated on the ground itself..Hence not mentioned in air combat stats..
In contrast out of the 19 PAF jets lost..12 were your great F-86s which were shot down not by MiG 21s but only by GNATs and believe it or not those hunters.. which are primarily ground strike A/C not air combat A/C..
I know my father was a hunter pilot in 65 and 71
And for your infomation the Hunter and GNAT are of a vintage that equals or precedes the F-86..
the MiG-21 kills were the famed F-104 Starfighters.. the pride of the USAF/PAF in those days.. 4 F-104s to just one MiG 21FL...

Again the LCA is NOT a stealth plane... It was never intended to be one..
The LCA has a Radar signature smaller than that of an F-16 hence smallr than that of a J-10..
Its compostie materials structure IS intended for lightweight but since it includes polymer alloys the metal content is much lesser.. (Actual values classified).. hence its ALSO helps in reducing the radar signature..
Summary: Composite materials fuselage is NOT primarily intended to reduce radar signature but it is an auxilliary purpose..


No link on the F-22 crash.. If you expect me to google I suggest yo do the same..You'll get hits I guarantee..

About my statement.. I don't need to go to China to be knowledgeable about its political scenario..
And I read time magazine for your information..Although I do not see how "not reading time" reduces ones knowledge on chinese politics..
We have over a 150,000 tibetians here in India who've fled tibet because of chinese oppression..Although thankfully china's developing tibet now so hopefully these ppl can return to their homeland oneday..
The taiwanese are welcome to re-unification on the grounds that China drops this clamp down attitude on all industries/institutions..
Confirm with taiwanese ATS member "twchang"

The LONG MARCH 4 shenzhou launch was NOT telecast live..
It was recorded by govt. media and then displayed (15 mts after launch) when it was deemed that everything was normal..
I know this because I followed the whole event doggedly..
The day of the launch was publicised but not the very launch itself..

The Su-30 MKK is a good aircraft agreed ( although not as god as the indian MKI) but its mainly for antiship purposes..
The Mirage/grippen/rafaele theories only point to J-10 replacements
I don't know about the Mirage 2000 -9 , but the Mirage 2000 plain is a multirole aircraft.. of F-16 caliber.. hence having the same role as that of the J-10..

About the USAF having "only" 350 F-22s...while they have nearly a 1000 F-15s..
Any AF with even 50 F-22s can wreak havoc with ANy other AF in the world...
For example.. If the InAF or the IrAF get only 50 F-22s they'll directly be boosted to the top 2 AFs in the world(w.r.t. strike capability) just after the USAF..
400 F-22s as compared to 650 F-22s is just fine.. and the US cong is the final judge of that..

Now onto Tiannemen..
I was talking about suppressed media.. not mindless killing of civilians..
Its a pity you think tiannemen was right...You'll get a severe backlash from all ATS members (irrespective of color/nationality etc.) if you start a thread on that..
Open rebellion is wrong but mindless killing of students is much much worse..
But thats another topic altogether...


EDIT: those link on the LCA are from 2001 and 02.. old stuff..
Read the latest stuff..LCA to be inducted by 08..
About looking for the 126 fighters.. do a bit of reading.. If you can find such vague ancient links incriminating the LCA then I'm sure you'd be able to find info on the reason for the purchase of those 126 aircraft..

The LCA is not due until 08.. Till then the MiG 21 fleet will be gradually be phased out and thus will reduce the IAF's 40 squadron force to 30 or lesser..
So these fighters need to be bought to keep the IAF squadron strength at 40 until the LCA is inducted..
And since the Aircraft have a life of about 15 to 20 years
(3000-4000 flying hours)..indications are that the squadron strength will exceed 40 by 2010..

Also do you know the date by when ALL the F-15s are to be phased out??
I doubt its before 2010.


[edit on 15-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by chinawhite

state wat bogus claims i have and also i dont post my opinions in a thread that starts with LCA and beatiful

That statement ( "beautiful LCA") was pure sarcasm by chinatea.. one of your chicom buddies..Infact he started the thread
So that thread was initially intended to be a mock LCA thread..
unfortunately it didn't quite turn out that way..

So feel free to post there.. the beautiful LCA staement wan't intended in the way you thought it to be..

Originally posted by Daedalus3


25 to 19 is not a big difference in a war..
Esp.. when 3 of those kills are taxiing runway kills..
note at acig.org TACDE/INAS
Also India won that war and the prevoius one hands down..

out of those 25 IAF jets downed only 2 were interceptor types...
one your MiG21FL and the other a GNAT...
The rest were all fighter bombers/pure bombers shot down on raids at pak airfields/industries etc..
Namely vampire,hunters and the canberra
As i said in a war when evenly matched the offensive force bears the brunt of
casualties as it is the one taking risks...Most of the PAF was decimated on the ground itself..Hence not mentioned in air combat stats..
In contrast out of the 19 PAF jets lost..12 were your great F-86s which were shot down not by MiG 21s but only by GNATs and believe it or not those hunters.. which are primarily ground strike A/C not air combat A/C..
I know my father was a hunter pilot in 65 and 71
And for your infomation the Hunter and GNAT are of a vintage that equals or precedes the F-86..
the MiG-21 kills were the famed F-104 Starfighters.. the pride of the USAF/PAF in those days.. 4 F-104s to just one MiG 21FL...

Again the LCA is NOT a stealth plane... It was never intended to be one..
The LCA has a Radar signature smaller than that of an F-16 hence smallr than that of a J-10..
Its compostie materials structure IS intended for lightweight but since it includes polymer alloys the metal content is much lesser.. (Actual values classified).. hence its ALSO helps in reducing the radar signature..
Summary: Composite materials fuselage is NOT primarily intended to reduce radar signature but it is an auxilliary purpose..


No link on the F-22 crash.. If you expect me to google I suggest yo do the same..You'll get hits I guarantee..

About my statement.. I don't need to go to China to be knowledgeable about its political scenario..
And I read time magazine for your information..Although I do not see how "not reading time" reduces ones knowledge on chinese politics..
We have over a 150,000 tibetians here in India who've fled tibet because of chinese oppression..Although thankfully china's developing tibet now so hopefully these ppl can return to their homeland oneday..
The taiwanese are welcome to re-unification on the grounds that China drops this clamp down attitude on all industries/institutions..
Confirm with taiwanese ATS member "twchang"

The LONG MARCH 4 shenzhou launch was NOT telecast live..
It was recorded by govt. media and then displayed (15 mts after launch) when it was deemed that everything was normal..
I know this because I followed the whole event doggedly..
The day of the launch was publicised but not the very launch itself..

The Su-30 MKK is a good aircraft agreed ( although not as god as the indian MKI) but its mainly for antiship purposes..
The Mirage/grippen/rafaele theories only point to J-10 replacements
I don't know about the Mirage 2000 -9 , but the Mirage 2000 plain is a multirole aircraft.. of F-16 caliber.. hence having the same role as that of the J-10..

About the USAF having "only" 350 F-22s...while they have nearly a 1000 F-15s..
Any AF with even 50 F-22s can wreak havoc with ANy other AF in the world...
For example.. If the InAF or the IrAF get only 50 F-22s they'll directly be boosted to the top 2 AFs in the world(w.r.t. strike capability) just after the USAF..
400 F-22s as compared to 650 F-22s is just fine.. and the US cong is the final judge of that..

Now onto Tiannemen..
I was talking about suppressed media.. not mindless killing of civilians..
Its a pity you think tiannemen was right...You'll get a severe backlash from all ATS members (irrespective of color/nationality etc.) if you start a thread on that..
Open rebellion is wrong but mindless killing of students is much much worse..
But thats another topic altogether...


EDIT: those link on the LCA are from 2001 and 02.. old stuff..
Read the latest stuff..LCA to be inducted by 08..
About looking for the 126 fighters.. do a bit of reading.. If you can find such vague ancient links incriminating the LCA then I'm sure you'd be able to find info on the reason for the purchase of those 126 aircraft..

The LCA is not due until 08.. Till then the MiG 21 fleet will be gradually be phased out and thus will reduce the IAF's 40 squadron force to 30 or lesser..
So these fighters need to be bought to keep the IAF squadron strength at 40 until the LCA is inducted..
And since the Aircraft have a life of about 15 to 20 years
(3000-4000 flying hours)..indications are that the squadron strength will exceed 40 by 2010..

Also do you know the date by when ALL the F-15s are to be phased out??
I doubt its before 2010.


[edit on 15-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

GET off the topic of pakistani war. I dont care any more

the us air force have lots of commitnents around the world and would need to send squadons to keep the world calm

Well the f-22 is going to be around for a long time and new generations of aircraft arent going to find f-22 hard.

If your not chinese stfu about Tiannemen you dont understand chinese poilices

also the eu ban on military sales hasn't been lifted yet.

"About my statement.. I don't need to go to China to be knowledgeable about its political scenario.." wtf

you have to be chinese or lived in china to know opinions of ordinary chinese ppl.

ill debate anyone on Tiannemen

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by chinawhite

state wat bogus claims i have and also i dont post my opinions in a thread that starts with LCA and beatiful

That statement ( "beautiful LCA") was pure sarcasm by chinatea.. one of your chicom buddies..Infact he started the thread
So that thread was initially intended to be a mock LCA thread..
unfortunately it didn't quite turn out that way..

So feel free to post there.. the beautiful LCA staement wan't intended in the way you thought it to be..

no shiet i knew he was mockin LCA
Aslo the indians out numbered us in the thread

Originally posted by chinawhite


"About my statement.. I don't need to go to China to be knowledgeable about its political scenario.." wtf

you have to be chinese or lived in china to know opinions of ordinary chinese ppl.

ill debate anyone on Tiannemen

Im not asking for the opinions of ordinary chinese...
Infact why did your family run away to aus if you thought that tianneman was right??..The chinese govt' would have been pleased with your stance..
You couldn't possibly have been implicated..
And there are those ordinary chinese (150000 tibetians) living in India.. so their perspective is a good gauge of the situation in tibet at least..

As for tiannemen.. just open a new thread on chit chat or anywhere else..
I will only observe; not participate..I am keen to see your point of view and how you put forth that perspective..

Originally posted by chinawhite


no shiet i knew he was mockin LCA
Aslo the indians out numbered us in the thread

There was me.,Stealth and Raj..
And there was Warlord, chinate and COWlan...
Even steven i'd say..

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by chinawhite


no shiet i knew he was mockin LCA
Aslo the indians out numbered us in the thread

There was me.,Stealth and Raj..
And there was Warlord, chinate and COWlan...
Even steven i'd say..

no not chinatea he started the thread but only posted 3

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by chinawhite


"About my statement.. I don't need to go to China to be knowledgeable about its political scenario.." wtf

you have to be chinese or lived in china to know opinions of ordinary chinese ppl.

ill debate anyone on Tiannemen

Im not asking for the opinions of ordinary chinese...
Infact why did your family run away to aus if you thought that tianneman was right??..The chinese govt' would have been pleased with your stance..
You couldn't possibly have been implicated..
And there are those ordinary chinese (150000 tibetians) living in India.. so their perspective is a good gauge of the situation in tibet at least..

As for tiannemen.. just open a new thread on chit chat or anywhere else..
I will only observe; not participate..I am keen to see your point of view and how you put forth that perspective..

we didn't flee my dad was offered a place at a uni in aust

im going to start thread about china and indias Economy

and about chinas grippen u even posted # here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and china isn't going to buy the mirage. this info came off an taiwenese website arguing that if the eu ban is lifted then china can get its hands on it

Originally posted by chinawhite
im going to start thread about china and indias Economy

Don't bother...
China's economy as of now is better than Indias..
Start a tiannemen square thread..

I claimed that the swedes wouldn't be able to seel to the chinese beacuse of US pressure..
That has nothing to do with the chinese looking for a J-10 replacement..

And yes that knwa chinese site is rumors only..
They claim that the PLAN sank an indian sub!!

Originally posted by chinawhite


we didn't flee my dad was offered a place at a uni in aust

Ah but you said and i quote

i was born in 1989 july 2 my dad escaped china on the same year i am living in australia and lived in china from 1995-1997

What else could you mean?..
Are you contradicting yourself?
And born in 89 means you're a 16 year old kid as of now..
should've known..
"Alan jones is lying"..." LCA is imported #"....all childish tantrums..
tsk tsk.. Im not of the opinion(like some other ATS members) that age limits reasoning.. both grow up!

oh # i did say escape


i mean leave

also did i say alan jones is lying i think i said "might"

[edit on 15-4-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
oh # i did say escape

i mean leave

also did i say alan jones is lying i think i said "might"

[edit on 15-4-2005 by chinawhite]

a hasty retraction of sorts..

and as for alan jones I quote again..

and alan jones he siad he was in some secret plane thing(UCAV) but could you believe that . yeah im george bush. im and i can tell his lying

another whack on the head followed by a hasty retraction?:shk:

MAN I DONT PROOF READ

well blogging is all about proof reading..