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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
All aircrafts made by china so far are pathetic copies. Here's a list of all of China's aircrafts:
1. J-7 Interceptor Fighter Aircraft
copy of the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13
2. J-7C Interceptor Fighter Aircraft
made by reverse engineering of the Soviet/Rusian Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF
3. J-7E Interceptor Fighter Aircraft
aircraft is based on the airframe of the J-7/MiG-21 Fishebed, but with improved aerodynamics performance and avionics from the Mig-29(purchased from russia).
4. J-8 Interceptor Fighter Aircraft
borrowed lots of designs from the Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-152A experimental aeroplane about which the Chinese had received data in the late 1950s.
5. J-8B/D Interceptor Fighter Aircraft
J-8 with larger fire-control radar and various other avionics equipment.
Some parts were taken from the or Sukhoi Su-15 Flagon.
During their temporary coalition in the 1980s, China and the USA reached an agreement of upgrading the J-8B fighter with modern avionics. As part of the "Peace Pearl" Project, in 1986 the George Bush (senior) administration approved to sell 52 sets of US-made APG-66 fire-control radar together with other avionics worth US$200 million in total to China to upgrade her J-8B fleet. Grumman (now Northrop Grumman) was chosen to co-operate with the SAC in this project. However, this project was halted after June 1989 and then completely terminated in 1990.
Following the end of the Cold War, China turned to Russia for helps to upgrade the J-8B fighter. In 1996 SAC revealed its F-8IIM fighter, which is fitted with the Russian Phazotron Zhuk-8II coherent pulse Doppler radar and R-27R1 (AA-10 Alamo-A) semi-active radar homing medium-range AAM, the F-8IIM is the most capable variant of the J-8B series. Its domestic variant is said to be the J-8C (or J-8III).
6. J-10 Multirole Fighter Aircraft
Essentially copied from Israel's LAVI aircraft programme and made by reverse engineering a Pakistani F-16A.
Collaboration between China and Israel on fighter technology began in the early 1980's and full-scale co-operation was underway by 1984. After the 1987 cancellation of the Lavi programme, its design was taken over by CAC, and IAI carried on with the development of avionic equipment.
It is powered by Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31F turbofan, the same power plant also being used by Chinese air force Sukhoi Su-27s and Su-30s.
Radar :Russian Phazotron Zhuk-10PD, a version of the system in later Su-27s, with 160 km search range and ability to track up to six targets. Israel has offered its Elta EL/M-2035 radar for competition.
Cockpit parts : basic Ukrainian Arsenel HMS copied by China's Luoyang Avionics
Weapons :J-10 could also carry Russian Vympel R-73 (AA-11) short-range and R-77 (AA-12) medium-range missiles equipped by Chinese Flankers
9. FC-1/JF-17 Multirole Fighter Aircraft
upgraded Mig-21 they try to sell to Pakistan
Originally posted by jetsetter
You will never win with the argument you have posted. The J-10 is based in part off the Lavi fighter which is a modification of the F-16. Also, China got an F-16 from Pakistan.
Originally posted by chinawhite
it looks to me like the americans are trying to play off pakistan againest india.
the next war between them might be fought with all american planes
[edit on 11-4-2005 by chinawhite]
Originally posted by Taishyou
I think we've pretty much gotten over the arguments in that "pathetic Chinese copies" thread. If not, then I guess it will be settled here!
Early Chinese fighters are reverse engineered mostly from Soviet fighters. At that time the Chinese aircraft designing companies have only begun their career and they probably had no idea how to design planes. Thus they had to reverse engineer existing fighters first in order to gain experience for designing new fighters. The J-5, J-6, and J-7 are examples of early reverse engineered fighters.
As time went on, Chinese fighter designs moved away from totally reverse engineering other aircraft, but rather starting new designs BASED on an existing fighter. Two notable examples are the Q-5 and the J-8 (and J-8II). The Q-5 originated from the J-6 which was a Chinese reverse engineered version of the MiG-19. It was a HEAVY modification of the J-6, and ended up looking NOTHING like the original. Same goes for the J-8. It originated from the J-7, which was a reverse engineered MiG-21, but the modification made it deviate so much from the MiG-21 design that it might as well be called a brand new fighter, which NATO did (they recognised it as "Finback" instead of "Fishbed" (same goes for Fantan, it's not called the Farmer)). The J-8 involved putting two engines in the J-7, and they ended up having to re-design the entire airframe to fit the two engines. Later, the J-8II had its nose intake replaced by two lateral intakes so the nose can have a good radar installed in it. It ended up looking even more different.
The J-10 is also like this, basing its design on the Lavi. The Lavi was only the "template." The whole plane is pretty much completely redesigned on top of the basic Lavi layout.
As Chinese designing companies gain more experience, they feel much less need to copy technology from other countries, because you can never surpass them if you copy them. Chinese aircraft design will start moving more and more toward indegenous designs in the near future until foreign assistance is no longer needed.
It's probably the Chinese ship designers that became creative first. Their new ships, the Type 052C and wave piercing FACs, both incorporated stealth features on their ships by designing them out of facets. The FAC was also a water piercer catamaran. AFAIK there aren't any missile patrol boats in the world that are remotely like this Chinese FAC. Links to Type 052C and water piercing catamaran
In addition, it is also the Chinese that designed the world's first long range anti radiation surface to air missile, the FT-2000.
My point is, the prejudice that so many people get that China is always copying is outdated. China did copy a lot when its weapon design companies are in their infant stages. As time moved on, they moved away from that practice, and soon they will be able to cut off all dependency on foreign aid in weapons design. If you know the Chinese, they are highly nationalistic, and copied technology is nothing to be proud of. The Chinese are extremely eager to break away from copying as soon as they are able and put what they have learned in the past few decades from the foreigners to full use.
[edit on 11-4-2005 by Taishyou]