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Pharmacists 'denying birth control

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posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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The sad thing is that a very small and very loud minority is trying to thwart women from getting their basic health care needs," she said.
"While they have the right to obtain the prescription, as an individual I always have my own rights not to fill it."
Supporters of pharmacists' rights, like Steven Aden of the Christian Legal Centre for Law and Religious freedom, believe that "in no case should a health care worker do something that violates their conscience"
At a Brooks pharmacy in Laconia, New Hampshire, Suzanne Richards, a 21-year-old single mother with a 3-year-old son, was denied the morning after pill because of the pharmacist's religious convictions.

He told Richards he would not fill her prescription because "it would end the fertilisation process of the egg in the embryo" and, based upon his religious beliefs, it was wrong.

It was Saturday night in this rural town - all other pharmacies were closed, leaving Richards without an option.

Richards says she felt "humiliated and traumatised", and was too frightened to approach another pharmacist the next day, allowing the 72-hour limit for taking the pill to pass.
Source

Boy Im glad Im not a single women in American.
Who would in there right mind let a bunch of regilouses wackos force there morals on others?
Whats the bet the same people who are against selling birth controll are against abortion? After the baby is born the women will have to put up with crap for being a single mum from the same people who refused to sell her birth controll in the first place.


As soon as you mix the state(s) with reglion it is the end of personal freedoms. Americans may paint a rosie picture of freedom but things like refusing birth controll say other wise.

It is true that conception should have been used during sex however people arent perfect 100% of the time. What if a women is raped?




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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Who would in there right mind let a bunch of regilouses wackos force there morals on others?


But it would be okay to force your "morals" on the pharmacist and make them do something they don't believe in?




After the baby is born the women will have to put up with crap for being a single mum from the same people who refused to sell her birth controll in the first place.


She already was a single parent, and it turns out she wasn't pregnant in this case anyway.




Americans may paint a rosie picture of freedom but things like refusing birth controll say other wise.


No it reaffirms the freedom of someone to not do something they don't believe is right. Since a pharmacist is not part of the "state" they can allow religion to influence any decision they make if they chose. When you start telling people they have to do things that go against their religious beliefs then you are crossing the true meaning of the 1st amendment.

Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


I don't see where it says free exercise except in certain cases.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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But it would be okay to force your "morals" on the pharmacist and make them do something they don't believe in?


If a person as a moral problem with birth controll then they shouldnt be a pharmacist your moarls shouldnt interfer with your job if it dose go find another job that dosnt conflict with your morals.




She already was a single parent, and it turns out she wasn't pregnant in this case anyway.


What if someone is pregnant?






No it reaffirms the freedom of someone to not do something they don't believe is right. Since a pharmacist is not part of the "state" they can allow religion to influence any decision they make if they chose. When you start telling people they have to do things that go against their religious beliefs then you are crossing the true meaning of the 1st amendment.


If someone wants to protest birth controll outside a chemist then that is there right to I have nothing against that. However I have a problem with someone refusing to sell the morning after pill because they wish to impose there morals on others.

If you dont like abortion then dont work in an abortion clinic the same applys here.The Church and the state should be seperate If someone wants to practice reglion go to church dont preach your point of view in a chemist.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:35 AM
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Keeping the chuch and state separate does not mean keeping ones religion confined to a church. This is not a chuch and state issue. It is about an individuals right to free expression of their religion.




The Church and the state should be seperate If someone wants to practice reglion go to church dont preach your point of view in a chemist.


Thats the thing, a pharmacy is not a part of the state. Separation does not involve anything other than the government and church. Practicing religion is a part of ones everyday life not just a Sunday occurance.




However I have a problem with someone refusing to sell the morning after pill because they wish to impose there morals on others.


Then do the same thing you would do if they had run out of the supply of pills, find a pharmacist who has them and will sell them. I have a problem with imposing morals on individuals by forcing them to do things they don't believe are right.

[edit on 11/4/05 by Skibum]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 03:04 AM
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Thats the thing, a pharmacy is not a part of the state. Separation does not involve anything other than the government and church. Practicing religion is a part of ones everyday life not just a Sunday occurance.


But some states are passing laws that say that people can refuse to sell birth controll so they have mixed reglion and the government. A cheimst isnt the place to practice your reglion should people be able to preach on highways?





Then do the same thing you would do if they had run out of the supply of pills, find a pharmacist who has them and will sell them. I have a problem with imposing morals on individuals by forcing them to do things they don't believe are right.


What if someone lives in a ruarl area and there arent any other chemists?
The only person at fault is the pharmacist for choosing a career that conflicts with there morals the customer has done nothing wrong in expecting to be sold birth controll at a chemist.
Imangn if someone refused to sell booze in a bottle shop?



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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But some states are passing laws that say that people can refuse to sell birth controll so they have mixed reglion and the government. A cheimst isnt the place to practice your reglion should people be able to preach on highways?


Hadn't heard about that, still doesn't matter because they are not establishing A religion. They are saying its okay to exercise ones freedom.
I don't see what a highway has to do with this, but no its not legal to preach on a highway, since pedestrians generally aren't allowed due to safety concerns. But pretty much anywhere else in public, yes. Same amendment that allows people to peacefully gather allows for public preaching. If one doesn't want to hear it, don't listen.




What if someone lives in a ruarl area and there arent any other chemists?

If getting that pill is of high concern to them then they could still go elsewhere. Just like if a woman wants an abortion and there are no abortion clinics in an area, they travel to them.





The only person at fault is the pharmacist for choosing a career that conflicts with there morals the customer has done nothing wrong in expecting to be sold birth controll at a chemist.


So say someone has been a pharmacist for 30 years, and like only recently the morning after pill came out. Do they have to quit their proffession since a new pill came out they don't agree with. What if that pharmacist owns and operates the only pharmacy for a hundred miles. Should he be expected by you to close up shop? No ,the customer did nothing wrong in expecting a pharmacist to sell the pill, but it would be wrong to demand it or force him to sell it if he doesn't believe in it.




Imangn if someone refused to sell booze in a bottle shop?


Since I don't know what a bottle shop is, I can only guess as to what you are talking about. If they don't want to sell booze, fine its their choice. Should they be forced to sell it?
In the same line of thinking, should a person who has been to medical school and is an OB/GYN be forced to perform abortions? Or should they have chosen a different career?

[edit on 11/4/05 by Skibum]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Sorry shouldnt have said states passing a law.
From the source.

In Arizona, the House of Representatives recently approved legislation that would put into place a conscience clause for pharmacists who have objections to handing out birth control.

But in April, Illinois Governor Rod R Blogojevich filed a rule requiring Illinois pharmacies to dispense all such prescriptions immediately and without question


Well at least the Governor Illinois has some common sense and suppots personal freedom.


A bottle shop sells beer, wine, sprits e.t.c and not much else lol.

As for a has been a pharmacist for 30 years why would they refuse to sell birth controll now ? "The Pill" has been around for 30yrs so that argument dosnt stack up.
A women should be able to go to her local chemist with out having to encouter someone who is in the wrong job she shouldnt have to travel to get conception/birth controll.

Remember it is his/her job to sell birth controll after hours that person can protest thats his/her right.
If a medical student dosnt want to perform abortions then that person shouldnt work in an abortion clinic you cant compare a pharmacist to a med student surely a med student has more options then a pharmacist?


People need to grow a spine and stand by there beliefs instead of refusing women there right to birth controll. Most Careers dont involve selling birth controll just avoid supermarket work because the sell condoms.


[edit on 11-4-2005 by xpert11]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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If a medical student dosnt want to perform abortions then that person shouldnt work in an abortion clinic you cant compare a pharmacist to a med student surely a med student has more options then a pharmacist?


I'm not saying med student I am saying someone who is an OB/GYN the ones who would normally perform abortions in the first place, should they be made to perform abortions if they don't believe in them? What if they are athiest and still don't believe in them, taking the religion aspect out.

"People need to grow a spine and stand by there beliefs "

Isn't that what the pharmacist is doing?

I hate not being able to use the quote button in edit mode without wiping out the whole previous response.

[edit on 11/4/05 by Skibum]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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skibum
But it would be okay to force your "morals" on the pharmacist and make them do something they don't believe in?

If one doesn't want to dole out medecine, don't become a pharmacist. If one doesn't want to perform abortions, don't work in an abortion clinic. This employee has absolutely no right to deny a customer their medecine based on their irrelevant morals. What happens when some lunatic tells a psych patient that they don't need medecine, but need to pray? Absolutely absurd.

If getting that pill is of high concern to them then they could still go elsewhere

No, they go to any pharmacy and get it, not one that doesn't have a fanatic working at it. If the store refuses to sell it, then thats a different matter. But for some desk-sitter to refuse to sell it is ridiculous. And if a store wanted to fire a pharmacist or anyone else for refusing service like that, they'd be in the right. This woman does have a legal case now. She had her medecine wrongfully withheld from her.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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And if a store wanted to fire a pharmacist or anyone else for refusing service like that, they'd be in the right.


I agree with you on that.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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I'm not saying med student I am saying someone who is an OB/GYN the ones who would normally perform abortions in the first place, should they be made to perform abortions if they don't believe in them? What if they are athiest and still don't believe in them, taking the religion aspect out.


Well athiest or not what pro-life person in there right mind would work in an abortion clinic ?




Isn't that what the pharmacist is doing?


Nope he/she was dumb enough to choose a career that comprises there morals and is refusing to look at themselvs in the mirror.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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All you do is stay away from the mom and pop pharmacies and go to the regular large pharmacies. They will never turn you down.
This is ludicrous.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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dgtempe what about in ruarl areas were there arent any other cheimsts?
What is a women to do then?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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Get to the nearest town, where there's civilization and get the meds.

I tell you there's a lot of "firsts" going on now.

I worked for CVS for awhile and my pharmacist boss was a devout christian. If he denied a sale to a woman based on his "religious convictions" his butt would have been out of there long long ago.


These corporations want "money" and they aint going to allow someone to deny you anything you want . Beleive me.

If they can deny you the pills, then they should be made to pay the store they work at for the cash prize of the pills. (that'll fix their arses)



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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Ok, wait a second. You're position is what? Get over your own morality and adopt mine? You disagree with someone's position on something, and they're doing something about it. You, too, have a right to do that. You can stop going to that pharmacy. A pharmasudical worker is NOT a government employee. Now, apparently government employees don't have the religious rights afforded them that regular citizens do. What you're proposing is that that last statement I made change from "... regular citizens do" to "... regular citizens did".

Next step: forced executions. A doctor is required by law, no matter their religious or moral beliefs, to perform abortions. Then, after y'all get that through, you'll probably start requiring priests and ministers to marry gay couples by law.


As soon as you mix the state(s) with reglion it is the end of personal freedoms.


Yet you're proposing the state impose its (your) morality on religious groups?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Yet you're proposing the state impose its (your) morality on religious groups?


It's against my religion to allow Christian singing on Sunday mornings. The Church of Brimstone requires sleep on Sundays. And yet, strangely, they still do it anyway. That's so offensive to my invisible man in the sky.

How dare you impose your morality on my religious group.

Personally, once these guys deny birth control, I think their liscense should be revoked. Let them practice med distribution all they want in some Ecuador hellhole.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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junglejake Im not imposing on anybody.
Is it unreasonable to expect someone to do the job there paid to do ?
Is it unreasonable to expect to be sold a form of medication in a chemist?
The public expects certain standards from services wheather it be a pharmacist or a bus driver if you have moral problems with aspects of your job find a new career.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Get to the nearest town, where there's civilization and get the meds.


Or, better yet, shop for your drugs online. CVS, drugstore.com, Walgreens and many more legit drugstores have online prescription services available. Delivered right to you door!

I think this story is just something the media picked up on again. Seems like we discussed this on ATS a few weeks ago



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Does this mean Scientologists won't give out antiboitics or insulin, for example? What if curing athlete's foot was against someone's religion?



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Try looking at it this way. A suicide pill comes on the market and the FDA passes it for prescription. You're working the counter when a 14 year old girl all dressed in goth attire comes to you and hands you a prescription. On it is a prescription for that suicide pill. Would you be comfortable giving her that which is going to kill her? You know she's about to die (it'll be real peaceful-like, though) if she takes this pill, and some shrink gave her the prescription. Would you sell her that pill, or would you have some kind of moral conflict? I'm sure some people would be more than happy to perpetuate the culture of death that is beginning to really take root as a "right" here in America, but some would not.

People percieve abortion, be it via a pill or jabbing a probe into the back of the head of a partly born baby's head, as murder, and they don't want to participate. Fire the pharmisist, don't tell them they have to pull the trigger, so to speak, because their morality doesn't coincide with your own.

There is a double standard here. You want everyone to follow the morality you want of accept everything, there is no right or wrong, and do what you're told when it's what we want. You get all up in arms when an unplanned anti-Bush protest gets people arrested (they could do it if they planned, but unplanned is illegal), yet when someone protests against what you believe, you want them hung. This double standard is awfully convenient for you. Do what I say or you're imposing your morality on me. Humph.



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