Are extraterrestrials real? As real as the nose on your face.

Sleeper,

I didn’t contradict myself when I said “People meditate in order to discover a higher awareness in themselves.”

Yes. And in your second quote you stated people use meditation to communicate with higher beings. Not themselves.
I believe that is a contradiction.

And I'm aware of what telepathy is but I was looking forward to you expounding on your "simple telepathy" as opposed to advanced/difficult telepathy. I wouldn't think there's any stages. Either you can or can't.

Hi Robert Fenix,

Originally posted by robertfenix
Paul_richard I think you are right, but I would not go as far to say that us Human's are more advanced spirtually.

Generally speaking, I agree with that appraisal.

Originally posted by robertfenix
I think all races take a road of self discovery some lead themselves into a pit of desperation as they try and try to understand and find an answer to "life" while other races conceed that they are merely "pawns" and attempt to live a life of discovery even though they may never find the true answer they are looking for.

As with people, some are more aware, more progressive, and better thinkers and researchers than others.

Originally posted by robertfenix
IF the "greys" have found only desperation and not the willingness to conceed that "GOD" is still outside of their grasp of understanding. Then maybe they are less spirtual only because they have lost the will to believe in faith. Where humans have more to discover about the universe and thus there remains still many unanswered questions about the universe.

An advanced race like the "greys" if they truely can travel between the stars may have been on thousand year journey's and have an almost infinite life span thanks to cellular engineering, yet have not found the "creator" or discovered the reason why they "live".

The reason behind Grey atheism is because their "progress" has been and is mechanistic, not spiritual. Whenever you have scientific advancement that is not tempered by a strong moral and spiritual foundation, the gains achieved are used unethically. The society becomes an empire. This is exactly the case with them in using many of us as slaves and as labororatory animals for breeding purposes and genetic experimentation -- stemming back many thousands of years.

The Zetans (typically of the Grey variety in abduction cases) believe that Science is God.

Originally posted by robertfenix
So happening upon a race of "humans" that still show a strong belief in a central "creator" facinates them, they study us to find the physilogical changes and the similarities to see if they too share some genetic link, which will provide a basis to believe in a central "creator" of all things in the universe. If mankind share something similar to "greys" then this link of two totally independant races either shows that all life is similar in design or that all life requires a fundemental factor to be considered a "life form".

This could be why the random sampling of (possible) abductees, because some people they can trace a link to and maybe some they can not. And this has them puzzled. Because it verifys and then discounts the possible theory of a central "creator". They are a learning creature (if they even exist) just like man, wondering about their own origins. Just in the "greys" case maybe a few thousand years ahead of us.

I really don't think that one of their goals is to learn about The Original Creator indirectly through their examination of us.

However, I would venture to hypothesize that you will only find societies that generally strive to live by the precepts of The Golden Rule and value Spirit/God over science, to be among those worlds which still embrace medieval technology. The Space Races (i.e., those civilizations that have interstellar flight capability), are too far down the road of intellect and technology, and too closeminded and set in their ways to change constructively.

Originally posted by robertfenix
As for you sleeper I still think you are a bunch of hog wash that has scrapped a few bits and pieces together from here and there and are trying to make yourself look interesting. Nothing more.

I wouldn't be so hard on him. He did have the courage to go the distance in explaining his experiences and maturely dealt with all the mudslinging and criticism that was directed toward him in the process.



[edit on 13-5-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by sleeper
Spirituality is a funny thing, no one knows exactly what it is.

Every major and many minor religions on this planet all agree on one basic spiritual principle: the need to strive to live by The Golden Rule. That in itself is a major guideline as to the definition of spirituality.

The aliens we are all discussing don't practice it. Their actions speak louder than their propaganda. They are not spiritual beings

[edit on 13-5-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Paul_richards you start to fall off the real and into the Church guided fanatisicm when you starting saying things like this

This is exactly the case with them in using many of us as slaves and as labororatory animals for breeding purposes and genetic experimentation -- stemming back many thousands of years.


No proof and in instances where people have been abducted they are not returned mutilated or "altered". There is no proof that a human has been bred with an alien. There is no tangible proof of alien off spring. We have no proof in the manner of tangible communication about the extent of the "aliens" spiritual belief system. Nor do we have any transcripts about their religious history or artifacts about their spiritual belief system. So we have no conclusive evidence to say one way or the other IF the aliens believe or dont believe in GOD. Maybe that is why they are searching the universe to begin with, because they have fully explored their own world and know that GOD does not exist on their planet, and so the journey has begun to understand what is the unknown. This does not mean that they do not believe in GOD. It just means they know more about the tangible universe then we currently do, but that does not mean that they know ALL.

Originally posted by robertfenix
Sleeper your above post was absolutely pointless, we know what the concept of spirtuality is, it does not need explaining here. We all know that it has different meanings in different cultures and religions.

To say that Russians are different from Chinese are different from indian people etc is pretty obvious.

Its called diversity, different names, same basic concept.

Apparently speed reading doesn’t work for some people-----where in that post did I mention anything about different races?

By reading some of your posts I can tell that you are a powerhouse when it comes to spirituality.

And by the way I though that post was very good-----I didn't borrow any of it from anyone-----everything I have written is mine----my experiences----if not I put quotes on it, if it is similar to someone else’s experiences, then I can’t help that.

Casting stones is what the Pharisees and Sadducees did, and Jesus didn’t appreciate the lack of spirituality in those self-righteous teachers.

Just a thought

Originally posted by sleeper
Mormons, Catholics, all five thousand denominations of Protestants,

Jews,
Muslims,
Buddhist, Anarchist,
Communist,
Socialist,

Democrats, Republicans and the thousands of others that I haven’t mentioned.

All these peoples and organizations claim to be more virtuous, more enlightened and therefore, more spiritual, than their competitors.

A few of those look like races to me, mixing political ideology along with it.

Spirituality is in-determinate of any other affiliation. Meaning being spiritual only comes within and has no regards to what color you are, what country you were born in, what language you speak, what "side" you are, nothing.

Its only you, ONE. Nothing else determines your spirituality. So using any of your above arguments based on religious or political background is absolutely pointless when talking about spirituality because its all based on faith. Either you believe or you don't. Its simple, everything else is just there to try and persude you one way or the other. Either you believe the fables or you don't.

Awarness comes when you understand that you will never fully understand, because you werent there, you didn't see it, you didn't write and you can't verify it. YOU are ONE you can only rely on what YOU have faith in. Everything else is irrelevent.

Originally posted by robertfenix
Paul_richards you start to fall off the real and into the Church guided fanatisicm when you starting saying things like this

I hardly think so but just call it like I see it. If the emperor wears no clothes, then he wears no clothes.

If my conclusions and those of other researchers shock people, then so be it. It is the price of delving into this phenomenon. If you don't wish to learn, then don't read posts in ATS.

Originally posted by robertfenix
No proof and in instances where people have been abducted they are not returned mutilated or "altered". There is no proof that a human has been bred with an alien. There is no tangible proof of alien off spring. We have no proof in the manner of tangible communication about the extent of the "aliens" spiritual belief system. Nor do we have any transcripts about their religious history or artifacts about their spiritual belief system. So we have no conclusive evidence to say one way or the other IF the aliens believe or dont believe in GOD. Maybe that is why they are searching the universe to begin with, because they have fully explored their own world and know that GOD does not exist on their planet, and so the journey has begun to understand what is the unknown. This does not mean that they do not believe in GOD. It just means they know more about the tangible universe then we currently do, but that does not mean that they know ALL.

They really need to teach people in school how to think critically. Inductive and deductive reasoning are great tools for formulating conclusions

There are in fact various indications that the aliens in question do not believe in God or a higher power -- outside of their high-tech empire. I'll give you an example...

The well-known author and abductee, Whitley Strieber, stated that on at least one of the times he was kidnapped, when he was strapped down on an examination table onboard the alien craft, he cried out for God to help him. The Zetan-aliens, in their characteristically spiritually indifferent and compassion-challenged mindset, replied with, "Why do you call out to God? There is no one here but us."

You really need to read more son. Start perusing the books on alien abduction research, like those of Dr. David M. Jacobs, Budd Hopkins, and Dr. John Mack, to name a few. Then read up on the archeological findings of Zecharia Sitchin. That's a good start. Do all that and you will be on the right track.



[edit on 13-5-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

The well-known author and abductee, Whitley Strieber, stated that on at least one of the times he was kidnapped, ....

You really need to read more son. Start perusing the books on alien abduction research, like those of Dr. David M. Jacobs, Budd Hopkins, and Dr. John Mack, to name a few.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by Paul_Richard]

You see you can not trust everything you read, a well known author.... an author will write anything that will get someone to read their book, whether or not its true.......

Basically anyone who is selling a book and claiming that its FACT, unless they have tangible proof that the abduction happened, ie right in front of third party witness that can co-oberate the story that yes in deed party X was taken and later returned. IS full of it and is only doing it for the money.

Sorry to bust your bubble, someone who publishes a theory and has tangible, credible evidence that supports the theory I would believe, but not some author who's sole object in life is making money off gullible people like yourself.

Do I think the phenomena of abductions exists, possibly, do I think they are always "alien" in nature, no. Do I think "aliens" exists, yes its highly likely, do I think they have come to this planet either now or in the past, yes the probability is high. Do I think our Goverment or any goverment on the planet is actively working with an "alien race", no. Do I think there is a plentiful amount of Dis-info being distributed through-out the UFO community, off course. Do I take everything I read to be fact, absolutely not. Is it possible that some people write books and stretch the facts even to the point of fabricating experiencing in the hopes that someone will read their book, absolutely.

Factual data is much more credible then some "story" written by someone in hopes of capturing the imagination and curiousity of a "ufo person". ie Radar reports, A/C transcripts, NSA documents, visual sightings etc.

How many of the reports on Nuforc do you think are real sightings ??? ALL of them...... no way. There are plenty of reasons for people to submit bogus sightings, to fit in, to be unique to have experienced something that very few people do etc. And it comes and goes in waves depending on which thing is being played up in the media at the time.

So keep on reading and believing everything in print and maybe someday your Zeta/Reptillian/overlord Praying Mantis/ Nordic slave carrying ship will come save you from this planet of genetically altered, superhuman, alien life forms.

Originally posted by robertfenix

So keep on reading and believing everything in print and maybe someday your Zeta/Reptillian/overlord Praying Mantis/ Nordic slave carrying ship will come save you from this planet of genetically altered, superhuman, alien life forms.

Way Above, robertfenix I don't agree with everything you have said, but your posts are a breath of fresh air around here!

There is only one truth, and until we can sufficiently intellectualize what ALL the evidence actually proves, it's better for everyone that the alien races keep a tight rein on it.

What good is any evidence to us if it only lends proof equally to the lies as well as to the truth in our infant minds? On Earth right now, stories and assumptions about the alien races are still almost all untrue. Even what we witness ourselves, we have no choice yet BUT to misunderstand.

"It" is real, but hardly anybody knows at all what to believe "about" it.






[edit on 5/14/2005 by EarthSister]

robertfenix,

NEWSFLASH: the books and mediums (like our own EarthSister) that espouse that the aliens are benign space brothers and part of a "consortium" or "Galactic Confederation," are actually more popular than the down-to-earth, realistic researchers I mentioned. Your argument of them saying anything to sell more books simply doesn't wash.

The "excuse our anal probing, surgical implants, and fetus stealing, we are really here for your evolution" paradigm is actually representative of the opinion of the vast majority of contactees. Again, because of Abductee Brainwashing. Governmental disinformation and mediums who channel alien Group Entities (who wish to be portrayed as incarnate aliens with telepathic ability) has also played a role in furthering this distorted perspective.

The more accurate paradigm that I and other researchers espouse is the less popular perspective on the alien situation. It sells less books, not more. We further the idea that the Zetan-aliens are in fact not benevolent, but self-serving and subtly imperialistic. Scores of abductee testimonal evidence corroborates and confirms this hypothesis

It's fascinating that some self-proclaimed experts on ETs are those that have admitted they have no experiences with them.

Presuming to know what others have seen or not seen or experienced or not experienced is arrogance in its purest form.

Because there is lack of proof for many does not negate the fact that thousands have the proof----been there---done that.

Perhaps those of us that know about ET-----should have known better than to talk about our experiences-----knowing how we humans get mighty envious of things we don’t have and can’t get our fingers on.

There is a big difference between healthy skepticism and spiteful jealous tantrums.

Hi Sleeper,

Originally posted by sleeper

It's fascinating that some self-proclaimed experts on ETs are those that have admitted they have no experiences with them.

Presuming to know what others have seen or not seen or experienced or not experienced is arrogance in its purest form.

Because there is lack of proof for many does not negate the fact that thousands have the proof----been there---done that.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Originally posted by sleeper
Perhaps those of us that know about ET-----should have known better than to talk about our experiences-----knowing how we humans get mighty envious of things we don’t have and can’t get our fingers on.

There are those that "ride the fence" and are openminded, who are indeed reachable. This is a great service that we do for them and therefore to The Light.

Originally posted by sleeper
There is a big difference between healthy skepticism and spiteful jealous tantrums.

True.

Tall trees get the most wind.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

The more accurate paradigm that I and other researchers espouse is the less popular perspective on the alien situation. It sells less books, not more. We further the idea that the Zetan-aliens are in fact not benevolent, but self-serving and subtly imperialistic. Scores of abductee testimonal evidence corroborates and confirms this hypothesis

Hi Paul,

I have to admit I don't know much about the Zetans, there is a lot of stuff written and I have only scratched the surface.

I don't know which aliens are dealing with me-----I do know that nice friendly ones have-----and some very ugly personality types too.

The personality spectrum seems to be as varied as that of humans. As time goes by I remember a bit more----perhaps eventually I will have a better picture of what they are about.

I have never been regressed-----and personally I know it would be pointless----since they can place whatever they wish in our minds.

Overall, I don't feel they are malicious----even the ugly ones-----because I believe I leave with a bit more of something after each encounter.

Hi Sleeper,

That's a hell of a price for learning something.

It is true that they can implant screen memories. However, you can still remember much of that which you have forgotten through hypnotic regression therapy. There is even the possibility that you can overcome whatever implanted screen memories you have and remember the abductions more clearly and accurately.

Secondly, I suggest you get an MRI done to determine if you have one or more surgical implants. Especially: to see if you have one in your skull.

Feel free to U2U me or send me a personal e-mail on this and related subjects.



[edit on 14-5-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Sleeper

I am enjoying reading about your experiences. Don't worry about the people trying to ridicule you...they are not looking at the bigger picture.

I for one am leaning toward believing at least some of what you are saying. You seem to talk very clinical about your experiences. A lot of what you say makes sense and is quite logical, for example, why the various governments are very reluctant to disclose the truth to the general population.

I would like to hear more. Do you believe/know if there has been contact between EBEs and ancient peoples? How long have they been "helping" humankind to progress?

I also understand why you will/can not go into great detail about your experiences. Keep the information flowing though!

Originally posted by celticniallDo you believe/know if there has been contact between EBEs and ancient peoples? How long have they been "helping" humankind to progress?

celticniall,

As I'm sure you know that not everyone agrees that humankind has progressed. Most people consider anything less than utopia unacceptable-----especially if ETs are real and have the means to solve all our problems.

This galaxy as well as most of them are very complex-----but not chaotic. There is structure and accountability-----unfortunately there are outlaws too.

Earth is an incubator-----and like any nursery there are lots of incubators----millions of them just like this place. Good help is hard to find-----therefore there are good caretakers, and bad caretakers.

I'm inclined to believe that what we see as good and bad is not necessarily so-----when looking at the big picture.

The reason I believe this is because I have learned more through adverse situations than desirable ones.

Few of us will chose to go through hardship-------so all of us are thrown into it at sometime or other-----some would call it chance or bad luck.

ETs have always been here-----they are everywhere.

There are millions of solar systems that are pure Utopias-----whether earth will be turned into one----I have no idea.

Everything already exists; there is no technology that we can imagine that doesn’t exist.

Sickness, poverty, war, pestilence, hate, prejudice and a host of other calamities, are simply apparatus of planets as this one-----and not a permanent condition of mankind.

I don't expect aliens or ETs to solve all of our world problems. I do expect them to introduce themselves nicely, at a minimum.

As a nice bonus it would help if they could help us with some aspects of our life which may include some of their advanced technology. With that we could perhaps start solving our own problems a little bit better.

For instance, there are volunteer physicians who go to poor countries here and offer medical treatments and knowlege that the locals didn't have. They also don't abduct people against their will.

So far, if they are flying around without our explicit knowledge and permission, they are causing us problems and doing nothing in return. Telling us it's for our own good, and then putting things into our mind is even worse.

With reference to the military being behind abductions:

Originally posted by sleeper
They don’t fake them; humans have been trained to perform certain covert operations, which include abductions. This is one item I should have left out of my disclosure, so I won’t elaborate much on it now.

From this I get the feeling that there is something more that these EBEs are conditioning the human race for.
Are we being conditioned for violence to be used in an intergalactic future war?
Why would they orchestrate and allow the many conflicts around the world to continue? Why are they allowing our society to become more and more violent?
If they are here to help us advance, why only help the rich and most powerful nations? Why not help the poorer nations first so everyone in the world is on an equal footing?
People are becoming less sensitive to most forms of violence due to all the news coverage of disasters, wars, death, etc....is this part of their plan?

I am trying to look at the bigger picture here, but the only reason I can come up with as to why the EBEs are letting the world go to sh1t, is ...
1) that we are going to be used as cannon fodder for one of their invasions or wars or..
2) we are just a huge experiment to them or...
3) we are just like rodents/animals to them and they are keeping us as pets.

I am not attacking you here, just questioning the reason that the EBEs would be around us for so long without disclosure, or real help for our world.

Your posts are fascinating...keep 'em coming!

Originally posted by mbkennel
As a nice bonus it would help if they could help us with some aspects of our life which may include some of their advanced technology. With that we could perhaps start solving our own problems a little bit better.

Only one hundred years ago indoor plumbing didn’t exist for the vast majority of people. There were no airplanes----other than a few experimental ones.

Electricity that would revolutionize everything and take mankind into the twenty-first century was slowly being introduced to mankind by (E)dison and (T)esla.

As you can see ET has been helping-----we didn’t get from horse drown wagons to space shuttles in less than sixty years by ourselves------.

Originally posted by mbkennel
So far, if they are flying around without our explicit knowledge and permission, they are causing us problems and doing nothing in return. Telling us it's for our own good, and then putting things into our mind is even worse.

They are not flying around without our knowledge-----lots of people know about them.

By putting things into our minds we then turn around and put those things into blueprints, new inventions, and build a better mouse trap, a faster airplane, etc.

Originally posted by celticniall
From this I get the feeling that there is something more that these EBEs are conditioning the human race for.
Are we being conditioned for violence to be used in an intergalactic future war?

The only battles we are being thought to fight are the everyday battles of life. The ETs have millions of years of technological superiority to humans-----believe me they can fight their own battles.

The nuclear physics that came from ET has given us the ability to fight without the use of ground troops----one or two well placed nuclear or biological weapons can disable any country and or planet, sending them back to the Stone Age or eternal rest.

If humans can do that think what ETs can do.

Originally posted by celticniall
Why would they orchestrate and allow the many conflicts around the world to continue? Why are they allowing our society to become more and more violent?

More violent then when----WW2----WW1, Napoleonic wars, Dark ages, the Romans, the Crusaders, the Moslems, the Greeks, Vikings, etc.

Believe it or not these are very peaceful times compared to the insanity of the past.

Why do they allow belligerence?-------Several reasons,

1. humans enjoy violence,

2. it’s easier to take than create,

3. Successions of peoples and societies create a sense of history-----which legitimizes the human allusion that we originated from this planet----savages evolving through the ages.

4. Because more than one ET is involved on this planet they introduced competition between the races------for a reason.

5. Everyone on this planet chose to be here-----to be challenged by a void in their being, greed, hate, and the need to quench a thirst for blood------are but a few of the reasons.

6. We use fertilizer to get healthy and beautiful plants and vegetables----the best fertilizer is manure.

7. To appreciate love, peace and tranquility----some have to experience hell first.

8. ETs accommodate those needs and requirements.