Where is the delineation of the line of paranormal?? The definition of Paranormal is "not understandable in terms of known scientific laws and phenomena". So, does The Judeo/Christian God then fit?? how about other mainstream religious icons? Allah, Buddha and others?? Are they not also paranormal by definition?

I see people who believe in a new age type belief, who are quick to condemn a Judeo/Christian belief as "a bunch of sheep reading a fantasy book" Or whatever the flavor of the day is. Yet, there is no MORE proof for what they believe and actually usually less.

We base our beliefs on many things. Teachings, friends opinions, what is socially acceptable(even those that think they are so on the edge usually are following someone else) None are scientifically proven though.

On another board I am on, it is full of horse people. Most educated with at least a bachelors degree, some with advanced degrees. I found it so ironic that everyone was so eager to believe a woman they had never met, that she "talked to spirits" who gave her lovely little sayings. They believed her hook line and sinker. YET, these same people were *fast* to condemn anyone with Christian beliefs as silly, or intolerant. (I didn't see any intolerance, just those that generalized against those with a christian belief)

I wonder why it is easier to believe in something just because one person says so. Because it sounds neat?

I do believe in ghosts, demons, possesion, telepathy, empathic abilities. That doesn't exclude my belief in God. It really makes God more likely, vs less. I also believe that one must be very careful when dealing with anything paranormal, as it is hard to distinguish good from bad. I do think in the majority of cases I know, at least deep in my heart, when I am pursuing something good vs bad. Not that I always listen to that voice, but it does niggle at me.

Just curious to other's thoughts on this. Not a debate on what is the RIGHT religion/belief, but more on why one might be considered exclusive of another

First to answer your question, yes the Judeo-Christian god, Buddha, Allah, and most other gods and goddesses would be considdered paranormal, but most people prefer the term "supernatural" as a general term regarding paranormal experiences that are religious in nature.

As for the academics, well I must appologize for my kin: As a philosophy of religions student I've seen quite a bit of anti-Christian retoric at my secular state university. Most professors do not allow it, but it is a view held by a good number of students. Most feel somehow wronged or lied to by their Christian upbringing, and some (I must admit myself included to a degree) feel repulsed by the teachings of Christian fundamentalists or "Eevangelicals." Some take this out on others, while I prefer to debate ideas (after all, none of us really can say we have the 100% correct answer to theological questions) rather than attack the messenger.

As for believing what the woman had to say, well some people belive what fits their own view of the world very readily. This is seriously frowned upon at my university, and by me personally. Had someone like that professed a simmilar thing at my college she would be grilled fully by very skeptical students looking to find alternate theories and proof of what really happened. At the same time, her account would be given weight as one possible theory.

This is how I have been tought social sciences should work: One's own bias should be cast aside as fully as possible, then the researcher should look for as many plausible explanations as possible then begin ruling the explanations out one at a time until (ideally but almost never in practice) one remanis, and that idea, all others having been ruled out, however unlikely is most probably the truth.

In reality, it's almost impossible to rule out all other explanations and that is why questions such as the problem of evil and free will are still being debated hotly.

You would do well to remind the readers on the other board of their learning of non-bias thinking. As it would help greatly in their views of Christians and unsubstantiated paranormal activities.

Blessed Be
~Astral

First of all, I'm a bit sarcastic when replying to many posts. Just a warning. Try not to get too offended.

Where is the delineation of the line of paranormal?? The definition of Paranormal is "not understandable in terms of known scientific laws and phenomena".

I'm not debating this definition, but what dictionary are you using? Just curious. My own definition of the word is similar, but I won't go into that little detail unless otherwise beckoned.

So, does The Judeo/Christian God then fit??

Yes. Jehovah/YHWH should be defined as "paranormal" - as God (in whatever form he/she/it/they is in) cannot be measured, contained or studied in any scientific capacity as of yet. Science can't explain God, so according to the definition you've given, God is then "Paranormal." There's been a discussion on this before - long ago, though.

how about other mainstream religious icons?

Probably.

Allah,

Same as Jehovah/YHWH - so yes.

Buddha

I don't see how Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) could be Paranormal - save for the rumored conditions surrounding his birth (born walking and speaking - doubtless this has some metaphorical value, instead of literal, however.) He didn't claim to be God, nor did he display any godly or Divine feats or behavior. In fact, he did nothing really other than offer another path for people to follow, in order to live a better life - and maybe even escape suffering. His teachings contain nothing mystical - no mass floods or fire and brimstone from the sky, so I'd say no, Buddha does not fit in the paranormal category.

and others??

Which others? Vishnu? Shiva? Zeus? Odin? Zoroaster? Satan? The Tao?

Are they not also paranormal by definition?

Some may be, some may not. The Tao definately is - hell, the first chapter of the Daodejing (Tao te Ching) all but says such.

I see people who believe in a new age type belief, who are quick to condemn a Judeo/Christian belief as "a bunch of sheep reading a fantasy book" Or whatever the flavor of the day is. Yet, there is no MORE proof for what they believe and actually usually less.

Give an example of one of these "new age beliefs," if you please. Generally, these things are neo-Paganism, Wicca, and such. But actually, "New Age" is actually defined as "new to the western world," so according to this definition, Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto, Hinduism, and Ba'hai are all "new age type beliefs..." but in the case of all of the above beliefs - save for Ba'hai - they are all older than Christianity. Perhaps not Judiasm, but Christianity, certainly. And actually, I will disagree and say that, at least, Buddhism has "more 'proof'" than Christianity, in that it doesn't claim anything too terribly radical (you know, the whole "God loves us but hates us, created us but will destroy us, is ever-present, though we can't prove it in any way" thing. Just my opinion.)

We base our beliefs on many things. Teachings, friends opinions, what is socially acceptable(even those that think they are so on the edge usually are following someone else) None are scientifically proven though.

Well, no joke. There is a reason it's called "belief," and not "scientific fact." Because it is, er, a belief, and not, er, a scientific fact. A belief is nothing more, really, than an opinion. I agree, however, that many people believe what they believe because it's the "in" thing to do - I find this is particularly popular among evangelist Christians... being socially rejected by someone because you don't think exactly in the way they do can hurt - unless you just don't give a damn about whether your beliefs are accepted or not. It's called "conformity."

On another board I am on, it is full of horse people.

Horse people? You mean they trample you? Or do you mean "horsesh**, people"?

Most educated with at least a bachelors degree, some with advanced degrees. I found it so ironic that everyone was so eager to believe a woman they had never met, that she "talked to spirits" who gave her lovely little sayings. They believed her hook line and sinker.

You find it ironic that these people believed someone they never met about her ability to talk to spirits, when you yourself believed that they have "advanced degrees," and you, also, have never met them. I see a contradiction - or are you, like everyone else, the exception to the rule?

YET, these same people were *fast* to condemn anyone with Christian beliefs as silly, or intolerant. (I didn't see any intolerance, just those that generalized against those with a christian belief)

If these people are anything like me, they have gotten sick of being preached at (not preached to, preached at,) and have developed a "bad taste" for Christianity as a result. Pound somebody's head with a Bible long enough, and they'll get a headache - and nobody likes a headache. And they were not entirely wrong - many Christians are intolerant. Christianity as a belief is, as well, in some aspects - but not as much so as the followers of the belief themselves. People get sick of the hellfire and damnation speech after 2,000 years, and it makes them bitter. Nobody seems to get it, though.

I wonder why it is easier to believe in something just because one person says so. Because it sounds neat?

Maybe because they find it more believable? Just a wild guess.

Furthermore, "because one person says so" is a perfectly good reason to believe something. Mass followers do not equal validity. A widely accepted lie is still a lie. Whether one person says something, a million, or none, you can believe whatever in the heck you want to.

I do believe in ghosts, demons, possesion, telepathy, empathic abilities. That doesn't exclude my belief in God. It really makes God more likely, vs less.

I don't see how belief in any of these possibly could exclude a belief in God - any God. I believe in the same things, as well - and then some, and I do believe in God - I don't assume to know who or what God is, but I'm pretty darn sure that my God isn't a hateful, macho-male warrior. It could be, but I don't know...hell, you don't either. No one does - the beauty of belief.

I also believe that one must be very careful when dealing with anything paranormal, as it is hard to distinguish good from bad.

There's a word for this kind of line of thought. "Superstitious." "Afraid of the unknown" also fits here.

300 years ago, the automobile would have been considered "paranormal," by the definition you've given. 1,500 years ago, many of our medical treatments that we currently use would be considered "magic." Paranormal, essentially, is "that which we find to be abnormal, impossible, or 'different.'" That's my opinion, anyway.

I do think in the majority of cases I know, at least deep in my heart, when I am pursuing something good vs bad.

Most people tend to have this voice. It goes by two names - "judgement" and "conscience."

Not that I always listen to that voice, but it does niggle at me.

THAT is called "free will."

Just curious to other's thoughts on this. Not a debate on what is the RIGHT religion/belief, but more on why one might be considered exclusive of another

I should hope not, because of anybody thinks that there is ONE 'RIGHT' religion or belief, then that person has been seriously disturbed by some major right-wing propaganda - i.e. "Americanism," where "I'm right, you're wrong, because the honest 'fed'rull gumm'int' told me so!" So true in the case of religion.

But anyway, some beliefs are "exclusive of others," because some people find one belief more believable than another. I honestly do not see the difficulty in grasping this. A Christian may look at Hinduism and thinks, "Horse hockey;" likewise, a Taoist may (but usually won't) look at, say, Islam and say the same. One's belief depends upon one's own opinion - in addition to doing what your parents, your culture, and your peers tell you is socially acceptable, respectable, and valid.

Tada.

Having met a few of the people from the Horse board(people who ride and train horses), I have verified their educational status. That isn't really a difficult thing to do.

To see educated people who immediately believe someone not only talks to spirits, but the spirits are telling the truth so *easily* really shocks me. Though God is obviously only for the weak minded. THAT to me, is ironic. There is NO proof, NO signs, NOTHING except some woman who spouts pretty words on an internet board. Just seems terribly gulliable to me.

Do you, LOBO, feel you are open minded? Or open minded to those that believe the same as you(aka Christians are wrong?) Or just open minded to things that are not Judeo/Christian in nature? It is what I am hearing, though, I could be hearing incorrectly.

I used the term "new age" as it was a lot faster than listing every religion/belief I could. Same with saying Judeo/Christian beliefs. There sure is a large difference between denominations and even more so with the Jewish faith.

Astral City's approach makes sense to me in a scholarly manner. It is how an educational facility should present ideas. Not discounting any in particular. I do agree that there is a bias *against* J/C beliefs. I was just wondering why when the people who are against them tend to be so vocal about free thinking and "all things are correct"

[edit on 4/10/2005 by llpoolej]

My avatar is my daughter and horse and yes, I have horses and do ride. Hence, my visitation of "horse boards". I have a common interest as I am a "horse person" myself.

Why am I so vociferous?? I am curious. I will always state my beliefs if asked or if relevant to a conversation here, or elsewhere. YES, I subscribe to Christian beliefs. I don't feel I am rude or intolerant of anyone due to differing views, have I been? Seriously, let me know if I am. I may not agree(as that would be dishonest) but I would hope to not be belittling to anyone, or even accidently rude.

I would like to see the same treatment of my beliefs given in return, though I don't think it will happen. I am sure someone will say that "Christians" have been rude to them, and that is probably true.

I was just thinking last night and came up with these thoughts. Doesn't anyone else wonder on these things? I have found my kids Montessori school tends to have a very healthy approach to religion. It is a very diverse school(as most Montessori schools are) with children from all races, religions and backgrounds. They study the holidays from all of the religions. It is interesting for them and done in a way of acceptance, without indoctrination. In our home, it is clearly Christian beliefs. Though the kids *do* enjoy learning about Ramadon, the Jewish high holy days and many others that aren't coming to mind right off.

I just don't understand the quickness to condemn what is Christian. If you don't believe it, don't. No one can force you to believe *anything* I don't understand the name calling though and opposition.

I believe many people, especially Americans, are feeling as though Christianity and Christian morals are being forced upon them. Living in the United States and having lived in Canada I can tell you it is night and day between the two countries (and I live in the Liberal northeast of the USA!)

Daily I am stopped by Christian street evangelists, and prodded as to why I am not a Christian. Now it's true that not only Christians do street evangelism, but the Harre Krishnas, Nation of Islam and other groups who partake in the practice do not (at least in my experience) have the aggressive nature that the fundamentalist Christians do. A Catholic friend of mine was told the other day that she was dishonoring her family for not being a fundamentalist like her parents were. I have been told on numerous occasion that my Buddhist beliefs will land me in hell and that my morality is against the will of God as said in the bible, so therefore I am an inherently evil person. This sort of thing can be quite upsetting and offensive to people, and probably leads to the gross and inaccurate generalization that all Christians are like these people.

Politics also plays a part; the current Bush administration in America is very much trying to push Judeo-Christian values set upon their country. Most of my fellow Liberals have been quite put out by this; the campaigns against same-sex marriage, legalized abortion and the recent right-to-die issue regarding Terri Schavo are probably some of things that are generally pissing Liberals off.

The major problem among the Liberals though is to lump all Christians together. Yes, there are the fundamentalist right-wing extremists and they are the ones who seem to get the most exposure but there are just as many, if not a great deal more, moderate and liberalized Christians. The Christian bashers seem to forget this easily and see everyone who worships Christ as a raving apologist evangelical.

Some of the arguments I have used regarding this are the facts that

1) The Catholic Church was one of the strongest opponents to the War in Iraq and the Pope personally gave Bush and Blair a tongue lashing over it

2) Some Episcopalians recognize same-sex marriage and even see a female element to God in the idea of a divine queen of heaven.

3) Christians in general worldwide are called upon to help the poor and downtrodden. Yes, there are certain fundamental denominations that follow Calvinist teachings saying that the poor are just those who do not love God enough but this is a minority opinion and in direct violation of the teachings of Christ and the prophets.

4) Catholics, a generally moderate to socially liberal church, are the vast majority of Christians, with their numbers around a billon members worldwide.

5) A majority of churches, including Catholics, liberal Lutherans and many Anglicans, teach that one does not even need to be Christian to enter heaven. Their explanations differ but generally the idea is thus: God is love; one who serves love serves God regardless of their deity. Remember that in the bible, it states that God has a great many names.

Usually arguments such as these help snap people out of their generalizations and pulls them back to a more logical set of reasoning instead of the emotional idea that all Christians are the same and wrong.

Blessed Be
~Astral

Originally posted by llpoolej
Having met a few of the people from the Horse board(people who ride and train horses), I have verified their educational status. That isn't really a difficult thing to do.

Okay, just checking

To see educated people who immediately believe someone not only talks to spirits, but the spirits are telling the truth so *easily* really shocks me.

Well, the fact that she/they think these spirits are truthful is a shocking thing, I agree there.

Though God is obviously only for the weak minded.

Not God - the idea of God that they have in their minds, which seems to be the God of Judeo/Christian belief systems.

There is NO proof, NO signs, NOTHING except some woman who spouts pretty words on an internet board. Just seems terribly gulliable to me.

I view the Bible in pretty much the same light - but that is just my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the Bible has many great values and teachings; but I take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

Do you, LOBO, feel you are open minded? Or open minded to those that believe the same as you(aka Christians are wrong?)

Generally, I feel I am open-minded, yes. It changes with my moods, though. And I hardly am narrow-minded towards anybody but Buddhists. I have no problem accepting that I could be dead wrong, and the Wiccans, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and even Christians could be dead right. I also think it's possible that we're all right, or that we're all wrong. Personally, I don't think any one religion has all the answers; but look at every religion, and you'll get most of the answers. Each religion has little pieces of truth in them, but not all of it.

Or just open minded to things that are not Judeo/Christian in nature? It is what I am hearing, though, I could be hearing incorrectly.

I believe I stated this already - maybe I'm wrong - but it's not the religion itself I have a problem with; it's [many] of the followers. Granted, not all Christians are the same, it's the ones that gangbang me with a holy book that get me all riled up. I read the Bible just as often as I do the Daodejing or Dhammapadda - and I find many of the teachings to be similar, if not the same.

I used the term "new age" as it was a lot faster than listing every religion/belief I could. Same with saying Judeo/Christian beliefs. There sure is a large difference between denominations and even more so with the Jewish faith.

Got'cha.

Astral City's approach makes sense to me in a scholarly manner. It is how an educational facility should present ideas. Not discounting any in particular. I do agree that there is a bias *against* J/C beliefs.

You agree that there is a social bias against Judeo/Christianity, or an educational one? Where I live, in my old high school, if you're not Christian, you better hope you know how to defend yourself. Here, it's a bias against NON J/C beliefs.

I was just wondering why when the people who are against them tend to be so vocal about free thinking and "all things are correct"

Well, there is a difference between free-thought and free-speech, er free-preach, as it were.

///

I don't feel I am rude or intolerant of anyone due to differing views, have I been? Seriously, let me know if I am. I may not agree(as that would be dishonest) but I would hope to not be belittling to anyone, or even accidently rude.

As far as I can tell, you haven't been intolerant or rude of non-Christians yet - not here, anyway. It would seem, though, that you may want to be - that's just my observation, and not my actual point of view. Just a guess.

I would like to see the same treatment of my beliefs given in return, though I don't think it will happen.

Oh, you can believe what you want, and I won't have a problem with it.
You can say "I'm a Christian," and it doesn't bother me a bit. If you say, "I'm a Christian, and you're going to hell," then I get a bit miffed. You should believe what you want, as long as you don't tell people why they should believe it, too.

I am sure someone will say that "Christians" have been rude to them, and that is probably true.

'tis in my case.

I have found my kids Montessori school tends to have a very healthy approach to religion. It is a very diverse school(as most Montessori schools are) with children from all races, religions and backgrounds. They study the holidays from all of the religions. It is interesting for them and done in a way of acceptance, without indoctrination.

I wish I had that kind of education. If I had, I could have avoided a lot of parking-lot beatings in my high school career.

In our home, it is clearly Christian beliefs. Though the kids *do* enjoy learning about Ramadon, the Jewish high holy days and many others that aren't coming to mind right off.

I enjoy learning about other religions and cultures, also. However, I am clearly a Buddhist to those who enter my home. However, are your children Christian because they choose to be themselves, or because you (a) push them towards it, or (b) influence them with the "hellfire and damnation" scare tactic? Just curious.

I just don't understand the quickness to condemn what is Christian.

I've never understood the Christian habit to condemn what is NOT Christian.

If you don't believe it, don't. No one can force you to believe *anything* I don't understand the name calling though and opposition.

I don't believe it (that is, Christianity the thing is, I don't run around town screaming "I'm a Buddhist! I'm not a Christian! Christianity is wrong!" which seems to be a bad habit among Christians... at least here in the bible-belt.

///

I believe many people, especially Americans, are feeling as though Christianity and Christian morals are being forced upon them. Living in the United States and having lived in Canada I can tell you it is night and day between the two countries (and I live in the Liberal northeast of the USA!)

I agree, and I live in the Conservative, redneck SOUTH of the U.S.

Daily I am stopped by Christian street evangelists, and prodded as to why I am not a Christian.

This used to be my case, as well. Actually, it was worse. Evangelists would pile into a church van, and drive out to my rural home to preach to me at my door step, completely ignoring the "NO TRESPASSING" signs and the gate. It took a shotgun in the face to scare most off, and a lawsuit for "criminal trespass and harrassment" to get rid of the rest. I've been pretty well left alone since then.

Now it's true that not only Christians do street evangelism, but the Harre Krishnas, Nation of Islam and other groups who partake in the practice do not (at least in my experience) have the aggressive nature that the fundamentalist Christians do.

I agree.

A Catholic friend of mine was told the other day that she was dishonoring her family for not being a fundamentalist like her parents were.

A Jehovah's Witness friend of mine was beat by her family a few months ago by her stepfather and mother for de-converting and becoming agnostic out of the family's JW tradition.

I have been told on numerous occasion that my Buddhist beliefs will land me in hell and that my morality is against the will of God as said in the bible, so therefore I am an inherently evil person. This sort of thing can be quite upsetting and offensive to people, and probably leads to the gross and inaccurate generalization that all Christians are like these people.

This has been my experience, as well. I'm constantly having to explain Gautama-Buddha's teachings, and their similarity to Christ's to Christians.

Politics also plays a part; the current Bush administration in America is very much trying to push Judeo-Christian values set upon their country. Most of my fellow Liberals have been quite put out by this; the campaigns against same-sex marriage, legalized abortion and the recent right-to-die issue regarding Terri Schavo are probably some of things that are generally pissing Liberals off.

Definately.

The major problem among the Liberals though is to lump all Christians together. Yes, there are the fundamentalist right-wing extremists and they are the ones who seem to get the most exposure but there are just as many, if not a great deal more, moderate and liberalized Christians. The Christian bashers seem to forget this easily and see everyone who worships Christ as a raving apologist evangelical.

I try to avoid this view, sometimes I fail, however.

Some of the arguments I have used regarding this are the facts that

1) The Catholic Church was one of the strongest opponents to the War in Iraq and the Pope personally gave Bush and Blair a tongue lashing over it

2) Some Episcopalians recognize same-sex marriage and even see a female element to God in the idea of a divine queen of heaven.

3) Christians in general worldwide are called upon to help the poor and downtrodden. Yes, there are certain fundamental denominations that follow Calvinist teachings saying that the poor are just those who do not love God enough but this is a minority opinion and in direct violation of the teachings of Christ and the prophets.

4) Catholics, a generally moderate to socially liberal church, are the vast majority of Christians, with their numbers around a billon members worldwide.

5) A majority of churches, including Catholics, liberal Lutherans and many Anglicans, teach that one does not even need to be Christian to enter heaven. Their explanations differ but generally the idea is thus: God is love; one who serves love serves God regardless of their deity. Remember that in the bible, it states that God has a great many names.

Usually arguments such as these help snap people out of their generalizations and pulls them back to a more logical set of reasoning instead of the emotional idea that all Christians are the same and wrong.

=)

I live in Redneck USA also, and can honestly say I can't remember anyone coming up and asking me if I am Christian or which Church I go to. I have worked with people of all races, faiths and sexual persuations.

I don't have the power to condemn anyone to hell nor do I have the right or ability to judge who will or will not go to hell. I try and live MY life as I see best. I do believe what I believe(or I wouldn't be much of a believer would I??)

Yes, I teach my children Christian beliefs, because *I* believe it. Just as I teach them manners that *I* believe are important. I wouldn't expect a Buddhist to teach their children that Buddhism wasn't the correct path, if you truly feel it is, why *wouldn't* you teach your children that??? I doubt my kids even know what hell is. Besides a swear word that is. The methodists really never talk about hell. I have only learned how I am supposed to live in church, not how I am going to hell.

I know a few Hindus and there is a Hindu community center in one of the more redneck areas. I have never heard of it being vandalized or them being picked on. The synagouges here are not vandalized or as far as I have seen, the Jews picked on. There is not a large Jewish population in there area. I know and have worked with Jehovah's witnesses and those are the only people who have ever tried to save me(at my door) which was fine, nice enough people, but I just don't subscribe to the exact same beliefs.

On the internet, which is where I have seen the most hatred for Christians, I usually see the non Christians belittling the Christians vs the other way around.

No, I am not a liberal, but I am not mean spirited and It always baffles me why people feel that advances any cause.

Don't Buddhists teach the 8 fold path which is fairly clear that you are to not slander people, no harm anyone/thing, live to raise yourself from any evil qualities? I would assume harboring such dislike of *any* group would go against this way of thinking.

I may not agree with someone else's truth, but doesn't mean I dislike them for it. You are waiting for the other shoe to drop from me, but you can search my posts. I don't attack really anyone. I am *generally* pretty nice and normal. Isn't prejudging someone for their religious beliefs, on what they are like as a person, what you really dislike?? Isn't that called being bigotted? I think that is the dichotomy of those that call themselves liberal or enlightened, the fact many cry for no prejudice, yet don't extend the same courtesy. Or I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time

Originally posted by llpoolej
I live in Redneck USA also, and can honestly say I can't remember anyone coming up and asking me if I am Christian or which Church I go to. I have worked with people of all races, faiths and sexual persuations.

I never said they ask anyone and everyone, though. I'm just saying they have targeted me in the past. Don't anymore - but restraining orders do tend to deter folks, generally.

I don't have the power to condemn anyone to hell nor do I have the right or ability to judge who will or will not go to hell. I try and live MY life as I see best. I do believe what I believe(or I wouldn't be much of a believer would I??)

Then you are about the "best Christian" I have run into in a very long time.

Yes, I teach my children Christian beliefs, because *I* believe it. Just as I teach them manners that *I* believe are important. I wouldn't expect a Buddhist to teach their children that Buddhism wasn't the correct path, if you truly feel it is, why *wouldn't* you teach your children that???

Well, as I stated, I don't believe any path has it 100% correct. Also, as I stated, I believe they all have bits of truth in them. So no, I wouldn't teach my children that Buddhism is the correct path, because I believe there is none. No religion is universal - I choose Buddhism because it is right for me, not anyone else. When I have children, I'll educate the hell out of them about as many religious beliefs that I can think of, and let them choose what they want to believe. If they choose Buddhism, then cool, I can have discussions about Buddhism with another Buddhist for a change. But if they decide to become Hindus, Muslims, Taoists - or hell, even Christians - I won't have a problem with it. Whatever a person believes, if it works for them, then they have 100% of my support - as long as they realize that it may not work for me in the same way.

I doubt my kids even know what hell is. Besides a swear word that is. The methodists really never talk about hell. I have only learned how I am supposed to live in church, not how I am going to hell.

That's good. Whatever tactic you use, at least it's not one of fear. By the way, I am not throwing accusations at you - which, I think, you believe I am doing - rather, I'm asking questions, trying to determine whether you're like the other thousands of Christians I've come into contact with and been infected by, which, as near as I can tell, you ain't (that was a compliment, by the way.)

I know a few Hindus and there is a Hindu community center in one of the more redneck areas. I have never heard of it being vandalized or them being picked on. The synagouges here are not vandalized or as far as I have seen, the Jews picked on. There is not a large Jewish population in there area. I know and have worked with Jehovah's witnesses and those are the only people who have ever tried to save me(at my door) which was fine, nice enough people, but I just don't subscribe to the exact same beliefs.

Good. You live in a "peaceful Christian" area. Lucky fella you are. I don't mind people saying to me, "well, we're with such-and-such, and we'd like you to consider believing so-and-so, and this is why..." such as the Witnesses. But when it's, "you can either get saved or have your ass whupped," it's a different story.

On the internet, which is where I have seen the most hatred for Christians, I usually see the non Christians belittling the Christians vs the other way around.

The Internet seems to be the favorite place to spew hate - no matter who you're affiliated with, and whom you are bashing. You can find just as many non-Christian hate-sites as you can Christian hate-sites.

No, I am not a liberal, but I am not mean spirited and It always baffles me why people feel that advances any cause.

I am a Liberal, and though I am trying to rid myself of the anger I carried (which I have done quite successfully thus far,) some past elements of my upbringing and earlier years (including a nuclear meltdown in my mind) still remain and have left "residual anger," as I call it. I'm working on it.

Don't Buddhists teach the 8 fold path which is fairly clear that you are to not slander people, no harm anyone/thing, live to raise yourself from any evil qualities? I would assume harboring such dislike of *any* group would go against this way of thinking.

Right. Christianity has similar values. Sadly, most fall short - save for monks and other clergy, from either group. We are but men, and none of us are perfect. And anyway, my aim isn't exactly enlightenment - it's just being content that I strive for. And you have to remember that "dislike" and "hate" have two, completely different meanings.

Tibet has been controlled by Socialist China (not Communist China) for how many years? Suppressing Buddhist practice, often to the point of death. I'm sure even the Dalai Lama dislikes this, though I'm sure he doesn't hate it.

I may not agree with someone else's truth, but doesn't mean I dislike them for it.

Good. Open-minded. I like you.

You are waiting for the other shoe to drop from me, but you can search my posts. I don't attack really anyone.

I never said you did, unless I was drunk...?

I am *generally* pretty nice and normal. Isn't prejudging someone for their religious beliefs, on what they are like as a person, what you really dislike?? Isn't that called being bigotted?

Yes, it is. But when somebody justifies very wrong, or at the least, annoying behavior with their religion, then I call it "putting a stop to the nonsense."

I think that is the dichotomy of those that call themselves liberal or enlightened, the fact many cry for no prejudice, yet don't extend the same courtesy. Or I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time

Oh, I try not toss away bias and prejudice. However, no one can accomplish this fully. Jesus sure as hell didn't. He couldn't stand the Jewish priests. Hell, he led a revolt against them.

Yea I've got to seccond LOBO's sentiment there, llpoolej, you are one of the best Christians I've come across in a while. Good man.

~Astral