War on Terror? What Terror?

Oh goody. Yet another thread like this.

afterdark, you do realize that the war on terror began before Bush, before 9/11, even before Al Q.
This fight has been going on for years. You will never know half the stuff that has happened/been prevented. Even when alot of that stuff becomes declassed you still won't know a fraction of the effort it took/takes to keep you safe.

Why? Because, the "terrorists" which we were told committed this atrocity were none other than Americans within our own government.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

I am a Civil Engineer with a focus on site development by trade (3 yrs out of school), and with significant research, and individual calculations, I--along with SEVERAL friends in the field--have determined that there was NO possible way in the dark depths of HELL even, that the WTC could have been leveled by those airliners.

You find your degree from the garbage or something? Seriously. Your going to have to really expound. And all this research you did. Was it from the sites themselves or from info off the internet?

Not a person within the firm I work with believes that those towers could have been brought down by a few thousand pounds of jet fuel. It is a simple fact of science and physics that the heat at which fuel burns is not even CLOSE to enough energy needed to cause structural steel to fail in the manner which was claimed. And if by chance, it was, the buildings would NOT have imploded, the point at which the steel failed would have coupled over, and that section would have fallen off.

You're losing credibility real fast.
I'd give you a complete run down of why they fell the way they did, how much energy was released, structural damage to the buildings, etc. But there are already plenty of threads on this subject (some better than others) and you're not going to change your mind anyway (which is sad). So I'm not going to waste time.

Disregarding the fact that the majority of Americans are too brainwashed by our government, and believe that our government is infallable

Have you spoken to the majority of Americans?
Do you have proof the majority believe the gov. is infallable? I challenge you to prove this because I seriously doubt it.
I believe most of America knows our gov is FAR from perfect. Just because not everyone goes around blaming the government for every bad thing that happens, doesn't mean they think it's not corrupt. Some things are just common sense.

FYI: Ponder this. 1) There were no terrorists on the planes, the terrorists which were claimed to have been on the flights, are still alive, most of them at least.

This is based on what?

2) The airliners flight controls (fly by wire, no mechancial controls) were remotely taken over by "someone"

lol I know you're joking here!
Thanks for the laugh man!! lol

3) obvious explosions at key structural points of WTC.

Here, I'm afraid you're not joking. I wish you were though.
You do know that explosives would have to be placed at key structural points right?
Yeah, and how exactly were they able to place them there without them going unnoticed?
Do you realize you can't hide that much explosives, especially in a sky scraper already built. Plus to have the planes hit the explosives on the exact spot? Come on.

Where do people like afterdark come from? I hate to think there's someone with an engineering degree saying this stuff. kind of scary. Almost all of his facts are wrong. Listen up, people(non-americans) you dont have a right to express an opinion about our government. We retailiated because of the attacks to make an example out of the taliban. Yes, we invaded iraq for oil, happy? saddam tried to invest his oil in euros, bad move.

afterdark I am with You on this!

I have seen the japanese architect of the WTC saying that he Specificly Designed the building to Withstand several Impacts of passenger airplanes. The "Fire that collapsed the building" was almost out - so reported the Fireman that were in the building, and there were videos of people waving for help from the big holes that the airplanes made. The entire fireman crew that was on their way to the crash site reported several explosions in the building just before it collapsed.

Which basicly means somebody "Demolished" the towers. If "just two planes" his them - the fires would gone out, or they could burn for days just like they did in the Madrid skyscraper, that burned for a day and still stood! Everybody waited for it to collapse like the WTC - but it DIDNT!

Or what about the NORAD going out? The entire North American Air Defence system blacking out? They couldnt intercept the incoming airplanes? I mean, CMON! with all that airpower everywhere those four "hijacked" aircraft would be shot down immediately!

This is how you start a war against terrorists - just like Hitler did once before in history; he burned down the Reichstag, blaming Russian Jewish Terrorists. Nothing new. And now the hunt for "terrorists" is on. First of all the Main Man behind th attack is Osama Bin Laden, a Saudi Arabian - but the USA attacks Afgaistan not Saudi Arabia. Then the USA attacks Iraq not Saudi Arabia.

Yes it is a War on Terrorism - but the Real Quesiton is who the Terrorists really Are?

Are they hiding in mountain caves on the Afganistan-Pakistan border?

Or are they "hiding" in their White Houses and Buckingam Palaces?

What were all those conveniently confusing 'exercises' that were happening on that day all about?

I think there is a heck of a lot that doesn't ring true on this myself.

Prime IMO is how come with people using terms like 'America is under attack' yet Bush was left at that infants school for so long and not instantly whisked away.
His visit was public knowledge and how could anyone possibly think it was safe to leave him there?
Why would they assume he wasn't also a (the!?)target?

(I also think the 'a plane didn't hit the Pentagon' story is a red herring, a ridiculous and lame story meant to make the rest of the questions look a bit loopy.)

I'm seriously begining to think this whole, "Blame America First-It's All For Oil-Profit for the War Machine-Trilateralist-Mason-US attacked itself-bush is devil-bush is to dumb to chew gum but he planned 911 in just 9 months" Crowd is actually a "DISINFORMATION" group from the terrorist groups to plant the seeds of distrust in the hearts and minds of the American Public and the useful idiots in the world.

Now there's a conspiracy for you. We all know how alqaeda use the internet for communication, why would they not use if to cloud the battlefield?

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Moon Puppy]

Outside of convening an "Estates General," with raised pitchforks, what the heck are most Americans who know 911 was an inside job supposed to do? Most people have too much to lose they may think, or the Meisner effect of the inner cities where people do not even think about calling for help when hearing screams. There is a mountain of evidence, but a few straw man arguments here and there. Mostly the overwhelming consensus about 911 is either ommission or commission or both is the explanation. The predominating view is that the sum of many highly convincing photos and commentaries is that your government aligned itself with profiteers and warmongers to produce this "outrage." The only outrage is the blowback of what people already know to be very likely, if not a matter of proofs. The elites who have held sway in command and control have assumed a simpleton intellect, or at least a "critical mass," of non inquisitive people to hold their thin story together. They did not botch raiding the Treasury, but they botched the whole 911 operation big time. Are we really all so powerless in this matter? Are there not responsible people in the chain of command who have also reviewed this totally botched hit piece on the American people?

I think there are many responsible people who highly dislike the cavalier manner in which the very fabric of our nation has been assaulted by our own government, one that itself is highly at question for the past two Presidential elections. I do not like the entire demeanor whatsoever, the haughtiness, the greed absent service, as finding it so shallow and heartless as to defy all reason, and to defy everything that has made our country what it used to be, great. Someone has to pick up the pieces, and throw out the garbage sooner or later. This way of governing is not, and has never been the destiny of the United States of America.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by Souljah
afterdark I am with You on this!
I have seen the japanese architect of the WTC saying that he Specificly Designed the building to Withstand several Impacts of passenger airplanes.

I'm calling your BS on this one.
No skyscraper is built with the thought in mind that a passenger plane may crash into it.

I also dare you to give me the link of where just one skyscraper was able to survive a passenger plane of that size hitting it.

The "Fire that collapsed the building" was almost out - so reported the Fireman that were in the building

lol, you and your phantom firemen have a short term memory then.
If it was almost out, why did it continue to burn for days?

and there were videos of people waving for help from the big holes that the airplanes made.

They were on floors way below the impact (showing how quickly the fire spread).

Which basicly means somebody "Demolished" the towers. If "just two planes" his them - the fires would gone out, or they could burn for days just like they did in the Madrid skyscraper, that burned for a day and still stood! Everybody waited for it to collapse like the WTC - but it DIDNT!

That building suffered no where near the structual damage that comes when planes are used as missles.

Or what about the NORAD going out? The entire North American Air Defence system blacking out?

It didn't go out.

They couldnt intercept the incoming airplanes? I mean, CMON! with all that airpower everywhere those four "hijacked" aircraft would be shot down immediately!

Even if they were able to shoot them down, it would have caused just as much damage. I have more info on this, but I'll let you all wallow in your own ignorace for a while.

(or at least until some stuff becomes unclassified)



More on the collaspes:
Here's videos ironically from a site claiming explosives brought the towers down, yet it just proves that it wasn't.
Tower 2 -
www.plaguepuppy.net...=Close-up%20of%20south%20tower%20collapse.mpg
Look where the collapse begins.
Right on the floors where the planes caused the most damage.
Now if it were explosives:
1. How did they last that long under such intense heat and the impact of the planes?
2. Are you telling me whoever was flying the plane was so accurate to take the plane right into where the explosives were (without setting them off)?

If you build a tower of cards. If you take away, the cards above it are going to fall, then causes the rest of the cards to collapse. Same thing here. You are underestimating the structual damage (on the inside) caused by a plane of that size (and fuel) slamming into the building.

Here's tower 1:
www.plaguepuppy.net...
Again you see that only the affected part falls first, after that it's a dominoe effect. If you're able to set set placed explosives that high up to cause it to collapse like that, you're by far the smartest human alive.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Souljah
afterdark I am with You on this!
I have seen the japanese architect of the WTC saying that he Specificly Designed the building to Withstand several Impacts of passenger airplanes.

I'm calling your BS on this one.
No skyscraper is built with the thought in mind that a passenger plane may crash into it.

Comment: The World Trade Center Architect did indeed plan structurally with reference to a passenger airplane, because of the history of New York when the Empire State Building was struck. Look up Google before you make such so called rebuttals. There are no proofs in your comments, while everything you reference is easily documented by that search.

Originally posted by Moon Puppy
I'm seriously begining to think this whole, "Blame America First-It's All For Oil-Profit for the War Machine-Trilateralist-Mason-US attacked itself-bush is devil-bush is to dumb to chew gum but he planned 911 in just 9 months" Crowd is actually a "DISINFORMATION" group from the terrorist groups to plant the seeds of distrust in the hearts and minds of the American Public and the useful idiots in the world.

Now there's a conspiracy for you. We all know how alqaeda use the internet for communication, why would they not use if to cloud the battlefield?

Dear Moon Puppy,
The paranoia is getting to you. The "terrorists" are actually not very far - they are in your backyard. So I kind of understand your Fear and Paranoia. And dont think that Devil-Bush himself planned this - it is a very nicely orchestrated event, planned by alot of people - not just your current goverment.

But hey - everybody that thinks a little bit diffrent is a Terrorists right?

And hey - internet is Full of Terrorists then huh?

[edit on 12/4/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

The "Fire that collapsed the building" was almost out - so reported the Fireman that were in the building

lol, you and your phantom firemen have a short term memory then.
If it was almost out, why did it continue to burn for days?

and there were videos of people waving for help from the big holes that the airplanes made.

They were on floors way below the impact (showing how quickly the fire spread).

Yes, real "inferno" inside the WTC; so hot that it melts steel, but people still can stand in the hole and wave for help.

The explanation for the collapse was a jet fuel fire that burned hot enough, long enough to weaken the steel in the structure. Calculations of the heat value of jet fuel must include the absorption of that heat by nitrogen and carbon dioxide in the air, by unburned carbon particles, by concrete and steel in the building. These taken together show that there is too little caloric energy in jet fuel and even the contents of the offices to increase the heat sufficiently to compromise the integrity of the steel components. This is what is would take to allow for the first collapse of a steel structure from fire in the history of the world. Now look at the WTC 1 after the initial fire died down. Does that look like an inferno? I see perhaps three scattered fires, a bit of black smoke, no towering inferno.

Which basicly means somebody "Demolished" the towers. If "just two planes" his them - the fires would gone out, or they could burn for days just like they did in the Madrid skyscraper, that burned for a day and still stood! Everybody waited for it to collapse like the WTC - but it DIDNT!

That building suffered no where near the structual damage that comes when planes are used as missles.

Eyewitness Reports Of Explosions Before WTC Collapses

Seismic Evidence Points to Underground Explosions Causing WTC Collapse

Strategic Explosives In The Twin Towers: The Evidence

Zero Doubt - WTC Towers Brought Down By Explosives

They couldnt intercept the incoming airplanes? I mean, CMON! with all that airpower everywhere those four "hijacked" aircraft would be shot down immediately!

Even if they were able to shoot them down, it would have caused just as much damage. I have more info on this, but I'll let you all wallow in your own ignorace for a while.

(or at least until some stuff becomes unclassified)

Oh, so they "didnt know" about the attack?

Hijackology 101-Did NORAD send The "Suicide" Jets on 911?

Flight Of The Bumble Planes?

NORAD 911 Stand Down Math

NORAD's 9/11 press release is self-incriminating - and has now gone missing.


And ofcourse dont forget to visit:

AboveTopSecret.com 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Master Index

The 9/11 Conspiracy; Free Press International

Souljah how do I know you are not part of the disinformation network? Are you one of the people who belive that the Pentagon was hit by anything other than an airliner? I"m just thankful that there is video of the planes hitting the towers, elsewise you folks would be claiming that something else hit the towers.

Originally posted by Moon Puppy
Souljah how do I know you are not part of the disinformation network? Are you one of the people who belive that the Pentagon was hit by anything other than an airliner? I"m just thankful that there is video of the planes hitting the towers, elsewise you folks would be claiming that something else hit the towers.

I think you have to worry about the disinformation from your own media - I am just presenting you with another view, another side of this matter.

You can think whatever you want about me, it still wont change the facts.

And yes, I belive that Pentagon was NOT hit with an Boeing 757 airplane.

Boeing 757 - Flight 77 - 9-11 Pentagon Conspiracy Video

Pentagon Crash?

Did Flight 77 really crash into the Pentagon?

French Claim About Pentagon Jet is a Sick Joke

I know that a few people have made a connection on this topic...It's exactly the same type of politics that Hitler used to get the Nazi Party into power in Germany. First, you create a problem secretly or fabricate some kind of "foreign enemy" to focus public attention. Then you use the current system of government to gain more power, by promising to end the problem...Once you have the "power", you end the problem (Very easy to do since you're the one who created it) & become a national hero & a reputation as an outstanding statesman.

That's how Hitler came into power & I weep at how very few people recognize those political tactics even as they're being used against us by our own government. Remember, USSR & USA "confiscated" many of the Nazi Party's top officials after WW 2...Is it surprising to see how those tactics are being applied in the US? Rmember that Germany was a Democracy before the rise of Hitler...The US is only a shadow of a Democracy now because too many people refuse to learn the lessons of history. They're so convinced that "it could never happen again" that they fail to look for the signs that it will happen again if vigilance is relaxed.

Another point: Has anyone noticed that when the US Government promises to conduct a "War on (fill in the blank)", the problem only gets worse? A War on Drugs only increased the problem in the US...A War on Terrorism is only making the problem worse...How many more examples are needed to convince people that the government no longer serves The People, but themselves? Is it surprising that the War on Terrorism gets worse? After all, we see how the US government pratices "foreign relations"...The US government was responsible for creating the terrorist organizations that it "wars" upon now!

Ah, but that's the mission of "Deny Ignorance", isn't it? Isn't it time that people like us stop discussing the matter only amonst those who see what's going on? Or is it time to start showing the truth to others & convince them of the truths that have been hiding in front of their eyes all of this time?

I think at the very least serious questions have to be asked when an extremist political group who have spent a lot of time talking about the desirability of a new Pearl Harbour moment to shape - in their own words! -a 'better' America actually get one very shortly after coming into power.

That strikes me a kinda obvious, right?


[edit on 12-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

America IS basically Nazi Germany all over again. Brainwash the people that we're good and everyone is bad. Hitler attacked the Reichstag a few weeks after he was put in office so he could blame it on his enemies, get Stateland Security in place. (Sound familar? homeland security!) they started invaded countries. Even Bush and Hitler were both Time Magazines Man of the Year. Prescott Bush, Bush's grandfather helped the Nazis and was prosecuted, Arnold who was parading around with Bush at the Republican convention, his dad was Nazi. They're trying to succeed where their relatives failed. See Hitler serves the same group of people Bush does so it's no surprise it's being duplicated. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, but yet America knows all about the Holocaust, and we're still repeating it. They're counting on our ignorance and sadly it is working.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by NoJustice]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
I know that a few people have made a connection on this topic...It's exactly the same type of politics that Hitler used to get the Nazi Party into power in Germany. First, you create a problem secretly or fabricate some kind of "foreign enemy" to focus public attention. Then you use the current system of government to gain more power, by promising to end the problem...Once you have the "power", you end the problem (Very easy to do since you're the one who created it) & become a national hero & a reputation as an outstanding statesman.

So, who's trying to get into power and become that hero?
We've had problems with terrorist for many years so alot of different presidents have had to deal with them.
Is the NWO trying to get into power? Or what? If so what are they waiting for?

That's how Hitler came into power & I weep at how very few people recognize those political tactics even as they're being used against us by our own government.

You're saiying these tactics (creating phantom enemies, then destroying that enemy to gain power) is being used against us, well then........why are you weeping, since it isn't working?

Rmember that Germany was a Democracy before the rise of Hitler...The US is only a shadow of a Democracy now because too many people refuse to learn the lessons of history.

Do you even know what a democracy is?
The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic, btw.

A War on Drugs only increased the problem in the US...

Do you have stats to back that up?

You must not remember the '60s and '70s

A War on Terrorism is only making the problem worse...

Terrorist acts against us in the years prior to 9/11 - WTC bombing, USS Cole, Beruit, Embassies, etc.
Terrorist acts against us in the years post 9/11 (outside of a war situation) - ??

What is worse exactly?

How many more examples are needed to convince people that the government no longer serves The People, but themselves?

Please tell me of a time where the people or the US actually thought the government serves The People and not themselves?

Or is it time to start showing the truth to others & convince them of the truths that have been hiding in front of their eyes all of this time?

I love it when people say that.
Go out on the street. Talk to a bunch of random people, and tell me what they think of our government. Then come back here and see how silly what you just said was. Like I said before, just because people don't go around blaming the gov on every little or big thing that happens (even though a sizable percentage does) doesn't mean they completely "trust" the government. Some things are just common sense.

**

Yes, real "inferno" inside the WTC; so hot that it melts steel, but people still can stand in the hole and wave for help.

lol, please widen the picture out.

What part of it wasn't just fire that made it collapse is hard to understand.

And what exactly is the point of linking a bunch of conspiricy sites? I thought you wanted truth, not conspiricies...

America IS basically Nazi Germany all over again.

You people are funny!

Prescott Bush, Bush's grandfather helped the Nazis and was prosecuted, Arnold who was parading around with Bush at the Republican convention, his dad was Nazi.

So now the son is guilty of the father's crimes (if there were any) in your world?

I never heard of the prosecution of Prescott Bush, perhaps you will like to share with us the court transcripts. I mean if there were a trial there has to be transcripts right?

Originally posted by Moon Puppy

America IS basically Nazi Germany all over again.

You people are funny!

Prescott Bush, Bush's grandfather helped the Nazis and was prosecuted, Arnold who was parading around with Bush at the Republican convention, his dad was Nazi.

So now the son is guilty of the father's crimes (if there were any) in your world?

I never heard of the prosecution of Prescott Bush, perhaps you will like to share with us the court transcripts. I mean if there were a trial there has to be transcripts right?

See you think we're living in a fantasy world but it's obvious you are. You shouldn't worship a President like he's a god like you do. He is a man with many faults. You will always deny anything negative about him because the news portrays him as a great man. That's because the the different news sources will not step on the Government's toes. I really don't care if you want to reply and say it's not true because it is. You are one of the confused. So just keep watching your television set and keep fearing terrorists attacks but one day you will realize it was all a lie. But in how much denial you are in you're probably a mason.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by NoJustice]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by NoJustice]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
So, who's trying to get into power and become that hero?

Those who have been applying the social & political tactics the the Nazi Party after WW 2. You are aware how the top personel from Hitler's administration were divided between USSR & USA, aren't you? It's not any single individual that really holds the political power. That type of "politician" knows the value of being the "power behind the throne" rather than sitting on the throne...Because sitting on that throne also puts a bullseye on your chest. Besides that, it's been a well-known political tactic throughout all of known human civilization to be behind the throne rather than on it...Nazis were far from being the first in history to use that tactic.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You're saiying these tactics (creating phantom enemies, then destroying that enemy to gain power) is being used against us, well then........why are you weeping, since it isn't working?

Ah, but it is working because the vast majority fail to see it happening. This country needs to have that majority to be aware of it, otherwise those tactics will just slip right by them & take effect. There is only a very small minority that are aware of it, but lack the influence that a majority would have to stop it. I weep for the ignorance of the majority...This also goes hand-in-glove with the idea that the majority must be made aware. Not like the "soap-box" speeches that you mention later in your post because that won't work. I don't have access to mass media, do you? If not, then how do you propose to inform the majority? I've always been open to serious & practical input on that matter...Your habit of using sarcastic humor to tear apart comments adds nothing to ideas for possible solutions. Such behavior is more consistant with an "Internet Troll" than someone who has any useful input to a discussion. Yes, I've been known to use humor & sarcasm at times, but it's always to make a point or to suppliment actual logic & reasoning concerning the topic at hand...Unlike you.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Do you even know what a democracy is?
The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic, btw.

As defined by Webster's:
constitutional adj of or pertaining to a constitution; authorized or limited by a consitution, legal; (There's more definitions, but they're not relevant in this context)
republic n a government in which the people elect the head of a state, usu called president, and in which the people & their elected representatives have supreme power; a country governed in this way; a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity

Have you been aware of how much the US government has bypassed or totally disregarded the Constitution? Read the Constitution itself as well as the history & conditions surrounding the legislation of Amendments. IMO, the Patriot Act was merely the political equivalent of the burning of the Reichstag. So "constitutional" doesn't describe the the way that the American government operates.
As for "republic", the elected representitives are all operating under guidelines that are defined by foreign corporate banking interests. The very existance of the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional because it is not controlled by Congress, as the Constitution specifies. It's entirely owned & operated by a colition of international privately owned banks. Have you seen the list of banks that own the Federal Reserve? They're mostly foreign banks.
Through the Federal Reserve, those banks have absolute control (by the influence that their money has) over the corporations that have levered too high of a degree of influence over teh government. Yes, we've "elected" our representatives, but they don't listen to the Will of the People...Only those who can leverage vast amounts of money. Looks like that leaves out "republic" in the way this nation operates too, doesn't it? Even though the Constitution guarentees a republic form of government, that very Constitution had been getting held out over an lit match at least as far back as Abraham Lincoln's time in Office--"I have the Confederate Army in front of me & I have the banks behind me. Of the two, the banks are more dangerous."

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Do you have stats to back that up?
You must not remember the '60s and '70s

Yes, I do remember...I was born & raised during those times. Evidently you're too lazy to research my statements yourself, so you try to make me do your legwork for you? Visit the library sometime...They have wonderful inventions there, called books, that will serve to inform you.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Terrorist acts against us in the years prior to 9/11 - WTC bombing, USS Cole, Beruit, Embassies, etc.
Terrorist acts against us in the years post 9/11 (outside of a war situation) - ??
What is worse exactly?

To me, it sounds like you're merely comparing the number of incidents...Well, I hate to inform you of this, but there will be more terrorist acts recorded before 9/11 than after. A lot more history happened before 9/11. At any rate, what effect do you think the Patriot Act has had on the US Constitution? According to the terms of that document, it "legally" leaves the government free to openly commit more acts upon the citizens. Evidently, you haven't read it any more than our legislators did before they voted for it. Does that qualify as "worse" to you? This was even after the US has been responsible for funding & training terrorists all over the world. (For one example out of many, you do know that the CIA trained Osama bin Laden in terrorist tactics, don't you?)

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Please tell me of a time where the people or the US actually thought the government serves The People and not themselves?

Do you think that the few short years after our Founding Fathers first formed the government might apply? Perhaps only a mere generation or two after they died is how long I figure the government reamined uncorrupted. It certainly didn't take very long for foreign interests to find ways to insinuate themselves into the US governmental structure, despite all of the warnings & precautions the Founding Fathers took.

So, ThatsJustWeird, do you have anything constructive to add or are you just a Troll with too much of an attitude problem to give anyone some consideration?

NoJustice, I"m waiting breathlessly for the transcripts of Prescott Bush's trial.

See you think we're living in a fantasy world but it's obvious you are. You shouldn't worship a President like he's a god like you do. He is a man with many faults.

Who said anything about worship? Personally I hate this idea of prescription drugs he signed into law. There are many things he has done and not done that I have issue with him about.

You will always deny anything negative about him because the news portrays him as a great man. That's because the the different news sources will not step on the Government's toes.

What news sources are you talking about. Everything I see from the "BS" networks try to hang him. Hell CBS even completely discredited themselves over this idea he is some sort of draft dodger. (Wonder what all the reservest today have to say about them being draft dodgers)

yeah I'm in a fantasy world... Hooters chickenwings and Hotpants are more my Fantasy...Opps, that might be some Freemason secret signal, I must be more careful...

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Moon Puppy]