Is the time right to revisit Oil Shale?, page


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Topic started on 8-4-2005 @ 08:16 AM by astrocreep
During the oil embargos of the 1970s, the US began looking toward extracting oil from Oil Shale..which isn't really oil but a similar product obtained by applying heat.

With the issue of Peak Oil and the current situaion in dealing with environmentalist and Arab oil barrons, we might see a new trend toward this idea once more. The research facility I used to work for did an exploratory project in the 70s for the Dept of Energy in Kentucky to verify and quantitate the in-situ desposites of Oil Shale..and from my understanding this was a nation-wide endeavor.


Some more info on Oil Shale


CAER

Desert News

Patriot Energy




The term "oil shale" is a misnomer. It does not contain oil nor is it commonly shale. The organic material is chiefly kerogen, and the "shale" is usually a relatively hard rock, called marl. Properly processed, kerogen can be converted into a substance somewhat similar to petroleum. However, it has not gone through the "oil window" of heat (nature’s way of producing oil) and therefore, to be changed into an oil-like substance, it must be heated to a high temperature. By this process the organic material is converted into a liquid, which must be further processed to produce an oil which is said to be better than the lowest grade of oil produced from conventional oil deposits, but of lower quality than the upper grades of conventional oil.



World Energy

Fossil Energy


reply posted on 8-4-2005 @ 09:31 AM by Off_The_Street
I think anyone who’s read my posts understands that I am not a petroleum geologist, but I have work experience in the energy field. One of the many things I don’t know much about is oil shale, so what I’m posting is based on a very cursory examination of the resource, its potentials, and considerations involved in its extraction. Here are some of the things I’ve gleaned:

According to Astrocreep’s citations (in particular, Patriot Energy Corporation (
www.infinitebang.com... ) oil shale is best mined via the open-pit approach, which allows for full extraction, but leaves huge (three or four mile square) holes in the ground, which permanently “uglify” and damage the area’s ecosystem; or require a lot of money to bring back to the original look – which costs, of course are amortized by the people who use the oil.

The Alberta-Taciuk Processor (ATP) Retort proposed for the processing is touted as “ energy self-sufficient and mechanically simple … dry process … no tailing ponds … low operating costs and flexibility in construction that permits staged development.” I’d never heard of the ATP process and spent about a half-hour researching it; it’s a nifty approach, and anyone interested in the engineering aspects should Google it. ATP is probably the way to go for oil shale exploitation, and, although it really isn’t completely energy self-sufficient, it does produce quite a bit of the heat by burning the shale itself. It also is relatively water-intensive, and this is a bad thing, since much of the oil shale deposits in the United States are in the relatively arid West.

Since the oil-shale recovery approach is small-scale, it’s difficult to find a handle on the costs, but I have seen off-the-cuff estimates tossed around like 8 to 12 dollars per barrel for a mature oil-shale approach (of course, the costs are higher now, because oil shale technology is still relatively new). The best overview I have found for oil shale is a quote from the World Energy Council ( www.worldenergy.org... ), which states:

”Perhaps oil shale will eventually find a place in the world economy, but the energy demands of blasting, transport, crushing, heating and adding hydrogen, together with the safe disposal of huge quantities of waste material, are large. On a small scale, and with good geological and other favorable conditions, such as water supply, oil shale may make a modest contribution but so far shale oil remains the "elusive energy".

In summary, it does not look like oil shale is a viable candidate right now to replace petroleum wells, given the environmental, extraction, and processing costs.

But there is another consideration which (at least in my opinion) obviates against oil shale exploitation. Regardless of the recovery and environmental amelioration costs, if we follow the oil-shale recovery approach, we will still be adding a few more decades of hydrocarbon-burning to an already-stressed Earth; developing an infrastructure which will not be able to be used when we switch over to a more environmentally friendly and cost-effective means of generating power, and wasting precious time and lung tissue by putting off development and implementation of a better approach to energy production.

I think large-scale oil shale recovery is a bad idea.


reply posted on 8-4-2005 @ 10:20 AM by astrocreep
Originally posted by marg6043
Astrocrep now that you mention the crisis of the 70s, I remember the lines back them, do you think that the reason we are having all this problem with the oil is because the change of dependency on foreign oil after the scare of the 70s?

Could it have been just a hoax to keep our oil safe and switch to oil from other countries?

I know is just a though.


Who the hell really knows? Its tough to get a handle on the reality of this situation since its marred by every Tom, Dick, and Harry with their own personal interests at stake...ie..lining their own pockets or putting forward their own agenda of control. What it all boils down to is that a report is just a piece of papyrus and whether or not whats written on it really represents whats really in the ground is very much in the hands of the writer. Thus, we can have reports coming from and cited by several different sources..such as in the 70s when we were supposedly "out of oil" and "on the brink of economic disaster".

Perspective tells us hind sight is 20/20 such as the old saying goes but looking ahead to the future, I'm afraid all any of us have to go on is information which has a great capacity to be influenced by those seeking a specific outcome.

There in lies the difference between exact amounts and estimated amounts which is really all we have. Living most of my life in the coal fields of East KY, I can tell ya that the estimates are not always on the money. As the technology to explore and actually look underground gets better then so does the validity of those estimates. I think we're seeing a good deal of re-filling of oil into once drained reserves. Now whether this from natural drainage in surrounding fractured rock or upwelling from deeper sources within the earth is the question. I can tell you that I don't personally belive all oil is from fossil source. There's just too damn much of it for one thing. But thats leads to questions of the timeline we now used for the life of the planet. It may all be from fossils but there may well be descrepancies in how we are viewing prehistoric periods.

Like I said, who the hell really knows for sure? When we have a barrel of oil pumped out of the ground, then we have a barrel of oil and not until then. If there is one thing we can be sure of, its uncertainties.
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