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Few questions about ascending in Freemasonry.

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posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So you didn't say it, then?

Can I get some people to admit they did not swear to any of the penalties in the Oaths of Masonry, because they are unnecessary?

On the one hand, you guys will say, we're not going to change the wording, because its all about the tradition, its been this way the entire history of Freemasonry.

Then, you will turn around and say, the oath I said was not exactly that one. There are lots of variations of the ritual out there, and my Lodge doesn't use that one.

Hello, isn't that CONTRAdictory? On the one hand, Freemasonry goes out of its way to maintain its 'modes of recognition', but every Lodge has a slightly different oath and ritual? Not buying it. Try sell it over there ---------->


Exactly HOW is that contradiction? The WORDING of the rituals changes, nothing more. It wasnn't done like that on purpose, it's like a game of telephone. Variations are bound to come up over time. But all our modes of recognitions are exactly the same, and the oaths we take all have the same meaning. Don't try to come in here and make it look as if we dont know what going on, Akilles. You and Drivel are the only ones still in the dark.




posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Wait a sec...I'm getting a vision here....wait...it's a trash can...and this thread is heading right for it


Seriously, why do you guys waste your energy trying to teach people like drive the truth about freemasons? Waste of time and energy IMO. You guys are better than that!!!



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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Senrak:

You mentioned:

"...can (if elected by the Supreme Council) become a 33rd Degree Mason."

Out of curiosity, is anyone here a member of the Supreme Council?

Cheers

JS



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
Senrak:

You mentioned:

"...can (if elected by the Supreme Council) become a 33rd Degree Mason."

Out of curiosity, is anyone here a member of the Supreme Council?

Cheers

JS


JS,

While I personally know several members of the Supreme Council (Southern Jurisdiction in Washington...there are SEVERAL Supreme Councils across the globe...two in the United States alone) however to my knowledge none of them are on this forum.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So you didn't say it, then?

Can I get some people to admit they did not swear to any of the penalties in the Oaths of Masonry, because they are unnecessary?

On the one hand, you guys will say, we're not going to change the wording, because its all about the tradition, its been this way the entire history of Freemasonry.

Then, you will turn around and say, the oath I said was not exactly that one. There are lots of variations of the ritual out there, and my Lodge doesn't use that one.

Hello, isn't that CONTRAdictory? On the one hand, Freemasonry goes out of its way to maintain its 'modes of recognition', but every Lodge has a slightly different oath and ritual? Not buying it. Try sell it over there ---------->


The ONLY penalties in Freemasonry are Suspension and Expulsion. The old "throat cut across, etc." is purely (and has ALWAYS been) SYMBOLIC. Remember the old "Cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye" ?

And in specific answer to your question, (a resounding) YES. I did NOT swear to the symbolic penalties. Several U.S. Jurisdictions have completely removed them, and in Britain they were ALL removed circa. 1986.

Any more questions? (Not that you'll believe the truth, of course...I'm sure you'd rather wallow in lies and ignorance) Typical of your ilk.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:10 AM
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Akilles

What the point of me telling you something if you don't believe me? Freemasons come onto this site to help explain what freemasonry is really all about, in an effort to deny ignorance . It's so easy just to carp from the sidelines "well they would say that wouldn't they".

Lets try again, now pay attention this time. Freemasons make a promise not to reveal the tradtional 'modes of recognition'. In simple terms (just for you) that's how traditionally freemasons could tell each other apart.

The penalty for beaking this promise is to be branded (a) a willfuly perjured individual, (b) void of all moral worth and (c) totally unfit to be received into ... any society of men who prize honour and virtue above the external advantages of rank and fortune. The obligatee then affirms this promise on the VSL.

The Worshipful Master then goes on to explain the traditional penalties that used to be outlined, and that they are no longer necessary. It is also explained that they were symbolic anyway, and that the candidate would rather have had these horrible things happen to him than break his promise, which as an honourable man he takes extremely seriously. Freemasonry at no point even infers that it will actually carry out these penalties, and never did.

Senrak illustrates this with the old playground "cross my heart and hope to die". This alludes to a medieval penalty of being drawn, i.e. your heart and entrails are cut out of your body whilst you are still alive (not for long though). It's a particularly nasty way to die. Schoolchildren are not actually carrying this out on each other when the promise is broken. It's symbolic. It's just something you say to emphasis the importance of the promise.

There. You now know. Please go and tell all your friends. The penalty for breaking a freemason's promise is to be universally regarded as a worthless individual. For a true freemason, this is quite enough, and indeed worse than the traditional penalties.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by mpeake
Seriously, why do you guys waste your energy trying to teach people like drive the truth about freemasons? Waste of time and energy IMO. You guys are better than that!!!


Well, I can only answer for myself, but I'm absolutely fed up with lies and disinformation being spread around the internet (deliberately or otherwise) and I'm trying to put the other side of the story.

Even on the short time I've been on ATM the same questions and claims abour freemasonry have repetitively come up by different people who have picked up some nonsense from some ignorant website or other.

I love freemasonry, it's a wonderful institution and I hate to see it "twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools".



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 05:19 AM
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To all:

I thought this may be possibly what driver was referring to regarding the link with Freemasons and a bloodline of sorts:

------
The lineage is thus
As a descendant of a Grand Master of the Knights I was informed as a child of the geometry, and there are certainly test one must percivere. The lineage is passed from the first born son to the first born son, My own lineage was passed to me from my Great-Grandfather, a Grand Master Himself.
I cocur on all that you state sir.
I will also state this exact TRUTH
Every item laid up by the knights has a devine purpose. It is to be used for good, the carrying out of Gods will in this world.
To be a first born son is not enough in it's own right, One must have an almost Devine Consciousness in order to recieve the knowkedge.
and his inhieritance, You must live up to the CODE of CONDUCT of the Knights templar.
Elsewise, your inhieritance is passed down to your first born son.
------

I don't know much about Freemasons, however someone mentioned earlier about the Knights Templar and I remembered reading this a few days ago and linked the two together.

Maybe someone can give me an overview of what this means etc.

The link came from:

b8.ezboard.com...

PS: On another note, I heard that the M on the Pope's cask means Mary....does it mean Mary or does it really indicate that the Pope was a Mason?

Cheers

JS



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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NO, I think driver was talking literally, having picked up that little gem from another site. If we take bloodline symbolically, referring to knowledge as you suggest, then possibly; as a freemason father will usually like his son to join freemasonry, and thereby he too will learn the lessons of the Craft.

The problem with talking symbolically is that, unless one clearly explains what is being symbolised and what the hidden meaning is, no-one knows what you are talking about


Wait, maybe that's it. Driver, Akilles and MrExplodingToilet are all talking symbolically. How masonic



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 06:07 AM
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If the higher chelons of Freemasonry are not evil then why the hell has there been so many books from ex-masons saying so?

Why is there such a huge website dedicated exposing the evilness of Freemasonry?

Why have a few ex-presidents said Freemasonry is so bad?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by Driver
If the higher chelons of Freemasonry are not evil then why the hell has there been so many books from ex-masons saying so?


Perhaps they felt there was money to be made? Anyway, I though there was no such thing as an ex-mason as they all got their throats cut, right?

Many of these books are fantasies anyway (e.g. The Deadly Deception by Jim Shaw)


Why is there such a huge website dedicated exposing the evilness of Freemasonry?


This is MrExplodingToilets site. He appears to have a vendetta against masonry. This site tells us much more about him than it does about masonry.


Why have a few ex-presidents said Freemasonry is so bad?


No idea. Have they? What about the Presidents who were members of the fraternity?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 06:39 AM
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You guys are here to spread dis-inf and lies about masonry.... its so obvious becuase why are so many of you so addiment to tell us all about Freemasonry?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by Driver
You guys are here to spread dis-inf and lies about masonry.... its so obvious becuase why are so many of you so addiment to tell us all about Freemasonry?


No Driver, YOU guys are here to spread disinformation and LIES about Freemasonry. Now why is that? What has our fraternity done to YOU to make you want to LIE about it?

We (Masons) are sick to death of YOU guys who are so adamant (not addiment) to SPREAD LIES about Freemasonry. You know NOTHING about Masonry, it's structure, organization, teaching or purpose...yet you LIE about it.

We're Masons. We're taught to believe that "Truth is a Divine attribute and the foundation of every virute" (that's a quote from ritual, by the way...) and we don't LIKE being LIED about....so why don't YOU stop the LIES?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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My stance of Freemasonry is that the bulk of the members are in ignorance while the higer parts are involed in the global conspiracy.

YOu guys at the lower levels arn't all innocent though.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Driver
My stance of Freemasonry is that the bulk of the members are in ignorance while the higer parts are involed in the global conspiracy.

YOu guys at the lower levels arn't all innocent though.


Same old crap. You're just like the rest of the trolls, drenched in ignorance and hate....

Go back and read previous threads on this subject. Use the search function, it's not difficult at all.

Besides, where do you get off saying we're at the so-called "lower levels" How do YOU know, huh?????



[edit on 9-4-2005 by senrak]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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It's a fact Freemasonry is BAD!

A group of people in a vast spectrum of power and control positions bound by OATH to "help each other out" and to "LIE" if need be INCLUDING in a court of law is obviously bad.

Also, Freemasonry has been at the core of most world events for this past 500 years that have driven forward to global government NWO agenda.... Freemasonry is bad.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 10:14 AM
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Every time someone refutes or counters your rubbish you move on to the next fabrication - here's some more from the fertile imagination of Drivel...


Originally posted by Driver
It's a fact Freemasonry is BAD!


No it's not.


A group of people in a vast spectrum of power and control positions bound by OATH to "help each other out" and to "LIE" if need be INCLUDING in a court of law is obviously bad.


What rubbish. In fact if you knew anything about this subject you would know that freemasons are obligated in the 3rd degree to 'uphold the law of the land'. In other words we took an oath to keep the law, not to break it.


Also, Freemasonry has been at the core of most world events for this past 500 years that have driven forward to global government NWO agenda.... Freemasonry is bad.


It must be lovely to live in a fantasy world of your own, where the nasty aspects of reality rarely come to bother you.

[edited for typo]

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Trinityman]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
You guys are here to spread dis-inf and lies about masonry.... its so obvious becuase why are so many of you so addiment to tell us all about Freemasonry?



BECAUSE ALL YOU DO IS LIE ABOUT IT AND WE'RE SICK OF IT!!!! That's why we tell you about masonry. Stop being so ignorant, Drivel, and wake up! Everything you "know" about us is all wrong. You didn't research this subject, you read it on some bogus website and believed every word of it. Start using your own brain for once and do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Stop blindly believeing what other people tell you.



My stance of Freemasonry is that the bulk of the members are in ignorance while the higer parts are involed in the global conspiracy.

YOu guys at the lower levels arn't all innocent though.


THERE ARE NO HIGHER AND LOWER LEVELS IN MASONRY!!! It's a FRATERNITY!!! Everyone is equal! This has been discussed SO much here on ATS, go back and read some other threads dude. And even if you think that's true, there's masons on this forum that you would consider "high-ranking" arguing with you right now, so your argument really doesn't hold up, does it?





It's a fact Freemasonry is BAD!

A group of people in a vast spectrum of power and control positions bound by OATH to "help each other out" and to "LIE" if need be INCLUDING in a court of law is obviously bad.

Also, Freemasonry has been at the core of most world events for this past 500 years that have driven forward to global government NWO agenda.... Freemasonry is bad.


You're so ignorant it's embarrassing. I feel embarrassed for you. If it's a FACT that masonry is bad, then you should have no problem providing conclusive evidence of this claim, right?

I think you're a liar, and I don't think you can prove anything above. You're the worst kind of troll on this website, because you blindly believe the first thing someone tells you that makes a good story. Start using your own mental power to come to your own conclusions, please. Stop being so damn ignorant.

You should also have no problem proving that masonry has been at the core of world events for the last 500 years, right? Please do so. Please provide us with conclusive evidence of your claims above. I CHALLENGE you to prove your claims. I am calling you out, I am saying that you are all talk and no walk. Prove me wrong, or forever shut up about masonry.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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So, in 2 days we went from this:


Originally posted by Driver
1. What percentage of Freemasons get past the Blue Degrees? I hear that it is very few.

2. How difficult is it to progress through into the higher degrees and how long does it take on average to complete each degree? I'm confused since Masons who are in the higher degrees are very few in numbers.

3. Do you need to have certain bloodline connections to progress into the higher degrees or past the Blue Degrees, even?

4. How expensive is it to progres through Masonry?

Thanks in advance.



To this:


Originally posted by Driver
It's a fact Freemasonry is BAD!

A group of people in a vast spectrum of power and control positions bound by OATH to "help each other out" and to "LIE" if need be INCLUDING in a court of law is obviously bad.

Also, Freemasonry has been at the core of most world events for this past 500 years that have driven forward to global government NWO agenda.... Freemasonry is bad.


Not hard to see that you had an agenda before you even started this thread.

Please do as previously asked and I'm reitterating. Post info on your claims or this thread will be closed.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Not hard to see that you had an agenda before you even started this thread.

Please do as previously asked and I'm reitterating. Post info on your claims or this thread will be closed.


Agendas and unyielding preconceptions in the Secret Societies Forum? I hadn't noticed, perhaps I've been too busy manipulating world events... It's taxing on my little monkey brain.

As for thread euthanasia, pulling the feeding tube on this one is well within the bounds of current jurisprudence (and we know the Freemasons control the judiciary everywhere)... I mean a persistent vegetative state is a persistent vegetative state, and this thread has the vacant stare...

Judge Intrepid, do the "Right" thing.

Overlord Monkeys, not just for world domination anymore...




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