I thought a discussion on what we can do now to help reduce our dependancy on and rate of use of fossil fuels would be of some benefit.

- Start a vegetable patch in your back yard now. Get some chickens. Not applicable to inner-city folk but the majority of suburbanites can do this. Reducing your reliance on commerical food sources now will help you when food prices rise due to increased production costs

-Get a rain water capture and filtration system installed now. For the same reasons why you should reduce your dependance on commerical food sources you should expect the costs of water to rise in the future. The water doesnt pump itself to your home, its filtered and pressurised by fossil fuel driven machinery.

-Reduce you usage of electricity. Turn off lights when no one is the room. Turn off any appliances that are not in use. Ask yourself whether you really need 3 TV's in your home. The current projections of fossil fuel supply is based on current growth in usage. If we can all reduce our personal usage of electricity by 50% we can add decades to our current supply.

-Limit the use of your car/buy more efficient cars. Buy a push-bike and use it for any journey that would take under 30 minutes. The amount of fuel saved by this would be phenomenal as cars use proportionally more fuel on short journeys (stopping and starting) than on long continous ones. The added health benefits would be a plus to

Im sure there are more things people here can think of. We are not helpless and doomed if we can just start the transition and improve our ways now instead of waiting for the crunch. Some things will cost money, other things will only cost us convenience. I ask you, what price convienience?

I think you are really overdoing it. I don't have time to be looking after the chicken and I don't have space or resources to store and process the rain water. I bet the majority of people are like me. Using a bike in the long winters we seem to be having here isn't an option. Riding on a busy country route is seriously dangerous, too.

So sorry, but with the best of intentions it's not getting us anywhere.

Im afraid your only other option will be to die. Im sure I can make time for my personal survival. Its attitudes that you CBF or its too much of a ballache that have gotten us to the breaking point in the first place.

The ideas are not for everyone but can you argue against reducing your current energy usage? I can see keyboards in your custom background. Would you stop using them and switch lights off etc. if it meant that theorhetically some premature babies incubator system could be used beyond what it could after the incoming crunch (just one example)?

Also your throwing convienience into the argument. You sound like you have a choice in this. When you realise that you dont have a damn alternative the sooner you'll make time to look after damn chickens.

Dont fancy riding a bike in the winter? Well ride it in the summer, spring and autumn and save 3/4 of what I suggested. Your attitude is demoralising to me, if everyone thought like that we are boned.

[edit on 7/4/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
I can see keyboards in your custom background. Would you stop using them and switch lights off etc.

My keys are always powered off when not in use. If you are telling me I should stop playing, I would seriously question your sanity. Also, most people already try to not leave lights on where they don't use them, not at the current electricity rates.

I respect the environment but I didn't find anything useful in your advice, sorry.

Invest in Haliburton, Exxon-Mobil, etc. As oil prices rise so does your stock.

Your atitude is all wrong. You think that you have no responsibility to change your lifestyle and that some one else will wave a magic wand for you. Can you not think of anything to do personally that will reduce your dependance on and usage of fossil fuels? If not keep your negativity and ignorance to yourself please.

Originally posted by subz
Your atitude is all wrong. You think that you have no responsibility to change your lifestyle and that some one else will wave a magic wand for you. Can you not think of anything to do personally that will reduce your dependance on and usage of fossil fuels? If not keep your negativity and ignorance to yourself please.

Look, I'm using a computer to communicate with you now. You do, too. How about you shut it down for good? And don't use the phone to call your relatives anymore. Use an outhouse instead of a proper toilet, and corn husks instead of t-paper (it take energy to produce, you know).

I'm not being negative, but I think one has to employ critical thinking. Artisanal methods simply aren't the best.

And I'm driving a 99 VW. It's not the most gas gazzling vehicle I see on the roads.

Rule number 1 of being cool -- don't try too hard.

subz I am 3 steps ahead of ya pal

If you don't want to garden- subsidize someone who does or shop at coops in your area
A $30 homedespot or wally world whisky barrel doesn't take up that much room and can be stuck directly under your downspout eavestrough Although 50 gallons of water doesn't go very far- it did water my garden everyday for 2 weeks until my seeds germinated
I planted winter wheat and sorghum last year at the country house- it isn't spring up there yet.
I purchased seed for poultry permaculture crops and comfrey rootstock for supplemental chicken feed.
And I bought $1000 of non-perishable food from Costco last year - that really helps with inflation-
I drive my car instead of my Jeep- except for hauling stuff- which is part of the reason I bought the Jeep anyways.

see folks- it is doable- it's just takes two weeks to stop or start a habit

Thank god for that accountability you've just restored my faith in mankind

This a great thread, every little things help. Here are some that I always do:

1- In Holland on all electric appliances relative to their category there is a label indicating how much power saving the product is. Given that, I always buy the most power saving (green) product.

2- I always stop the engine of my car when I know I won't be using it for several minutes (traffic jams, temporary stops, long red traffic lights etc).

3- I put off my light, in spaces I am not using- often there are at max 2 lamps burning where I am.

Edit: and I use power saving light bulbs, they are a bit more expensive but they last longer and I believe they only use 20% of energy relative to the regular light bulbs- it's sure that the money saved (because of less high electric bills) is greater than the price of the light bulb.

Blobber


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Blobber]

Ive got a little electric scooter.. max speed of 15mph (downhill with a backwind) but it gets the job done. Ill use it if my destination is on the busroute, and the cost of the fuel needed to get there is greater than a round trip bus ride, or for short trips to the gas station or whatever. Ive got an SUV which after some mods is getting 17mpg city and 18 highway (stock was 15/17, eck), so Im very concious of fuel usage and efficiency.

An excellent way to improve fuel efficiency when driving is basically drive like the brakes are about to fail. Only apply throttle when needed to maintain speed. Stop applying throttle well before a stop. If you have to use excessive brakes, you have wasted fuel. Also progressively decrease speed up hills, slowest speed at the top, fastest at the bottom. Use momentum as much as possible.

> also slow down! Motors use an immensely greater amount of fuel to maintain high speed. 80mph can be murder on mpg compared to just 65mph.

[edit on 8-4-2005 by apc]

My 2 cents:

We in the US need to go more the Europe/ Asia way and encourage public transport.

As for the small measures, We need to stop making hype about recycling (not read discourage). It would be more prudent if we do not consume that much. Do we really need to double bag the groceries? Does every item in the store has to be elaborately wrapped like a christmas gift ? Do stores and companies have to send tons of junk mail and waste paper? Do we need to drive the extra mile to save 10c on a bag of chips?

And somebody tell me how the hell I manage to fill a 13 gallon trashbag every 3 days

introspection time


[edit on 8-4-2005 by Quake]

Just a helpful reminder, but do you remember Enron and its accounting mess?

Now on the issue of "Peak Oil," do you trust the same kinds of industry people who suggest such a thing to use their inventory accounting and projections of available supply and demand, to tell you there is actually such a "crisis?"

I do not trust these people, and in fact the problem is limited refinining capacity which is a deliberate matter, not a matter of actual geology which is their economically distorted argument.

Shall we write a "Peak Oil," for Dummies book now, or later, to also discuss the Abiotic Oil theory? Why are the Russians drilling thousands of feet down for oil, if it is the result of biological processes happening beneath the current historical layer of 4.2 billion years?

I think in the Enron accounting age, it is a simple matter of supply and demand, while your demand is inelastic, and the supply is now under even more concentrated ownership. So where to prices go without what used to be at least a somewhat limited competitive output strategy? Up is right, as much as these people want to charge, just as they charged for electricity in California.

Your leaders will do nothing, the press will do nothing, so what do people do with this "Peak Oil," myth? It is an excuse for higher prices, so get over your plans for a vegetable garden and so forth. You have been had.

[edit on 8-4-2005 by SkipShipman]