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France 'shelters guilty Rwandans'

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posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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"Aloys Mutabingwa, a representative at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, said the court had heard enough evidence of France's involvement.

He said some 100 Rwandans wanted by the court or by Rwandan prosecutors were "comfortably living in France".

At least 800,000 people, mostly minority Tutsis, died in the massacres between April and July 2004.

news.bbc.co.uk...

It never ceases to amaze me how insane the French are and how they seem to support and shelter mega-death tyrants. The list is very long.




posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Only following your countries lead dr...

....Dont you feel proud?



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Typical distortion of reality. Yes, I feel proud. Proud of stopping the mass murder of Saddam. Where is the UN in rawanda, it was specificly under Koffi's authority. How about the Sudan? At least the US has the guts to stop Iraq. Any people like you condem us for it. That is sad.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Typical distortion of reality. Yes, I feel proud. Proud of stopping the mass murder of Saddam.

No proud of help create the mass murderer...yeah that was real good of the US wasnt it.



Where is the UN in rawanda, it was specificly under Koffi's authority. How about the Sudan?

The UN troops are not peace makeing thier peace keeping....how difficult is it for you people to understand that you cant just go in guns blazeing and waste both sides to "make" peace...all that does it create more wars!


At least the US has the guts to stop Iraq. Any people like you condem us for it. That is sad.

Stop iraq doing what?
Killing its own people yes he was doing that but so where a large ammount of other counties yet I see no US task force off thier coast.
Haveing WMD's? Bull....we all know there was none it was just a ploy to help bush get the war started....
Threatining his neighbors?What about isreal? Iran?
A hundred other countries were doing those acts but the US chose iraq for one reason.....oil..
I condemm your "justifying" the killing of thousands on one man...one stinking man!
The sooner your generation dies off the sooner my generation can start to fix the mess left behind...



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
The UN troops are not peace makeing thier peace keeping....how difficult is it for you people to understand that you cant just go in guns blazeing and waste both sides to "make" peace...all that does it create more wars!

The point is we care and you don't that’s the big difference, you only see the war videos and fighting on TV not the aid that was distributed, you have succumbed to the general liberal pseudo-humanitarian drivel we are all swamped in! Sad this is!
Yes we have done something’s in the past wrong and we were misguided but this is world politics and just because rumsfeld shakes Saddams had doesn't make them bosom pals, you line of reasoning is flawed, I admire your attempt to side track from the topic at hand though!


Originally posted by devilwasp
The sooner your generation dies off the sooner my generation can start to fix the mess left behind...

That is uncalled for
, insults are the last refuge of the desperate and I hope you are not desperate devilwasp. Being here for so long and all, show some decency man!

The point here is not what the US has or has not done but what France protects and shields from the law.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
The UN troops are not peace makeing thier peace keeping

You mean THEY'RE peace keeping ... and there is a comma after the
word making. Making. Drop the 'e'. So you are saying that the UN is
useless to stop problems and they are only good for standing around
in a secure environment? So who gets stuck with making that
environment secure? America, of course. Someone has to do it.
The UN is useless for this as you have said.


you cant just go in guns blazeing and waste both sides to
"make" peace...all that does it create more wars!

can't. apostrophe after the n. Silly. The coalition of the willing
didn't 'waste' Iraqis. We liberated them. They rejoiced when
they went to freely vote for the first time in forty years
(an opportunity that we provided for them). They
rejoiced when we entered the country to free them. They were
VERY happy to be free of Saddam. No, their liberation didn't
cause more wars. What you are seeing with the illegal insurgents
is a group of people who were murderers and thieves in the old
regime and they don't want to let go of their criminal positions.
The Iraqis hate them and the insurgents will all be dead soon.

Oh .. and force DOES end wars. Germany and Japan in WWII
ended their advances because people fought back.



Stop iraq doing what? ... so where a large ammount of other
counties yet I see no US task force off thier coast.

were. So 'were' a large amount. Their. off 'their' coast. One m in
amount. Iraq - capital 'I' in Iraq. I'm not picking on you, but I
would like to know if English is your second language. If so
please let me know because that would help when we have
to explain things to you... or is this an age thing? Are you still
in school?

Yes, there are other countries that have problems and are killing
their own in mass numbers. America doesn't have the troops to
be able to step in everywhere. We just can't do it. We did go
into Iraq because of the mass murders and mass rapes ... but we
also went in because Saddam was completely unstable and was
a threat to his neighbors and therefore a threat to the stability
of the world.


Haveing WMD's? Bull....

'having'. Drop the 'e' on haveing. Yes, Saddam had WMD. This
is not even in dispute at all. He mass murdered the Kurds with
WMD gas. He definately had, and used, WMD.


Threatining his neighbors?What about isreal? Iran?

'Threatening' .. no 'i'. Israel. Capital 'I' and reverse the e and the a.
Israel is not threatening. It is a nuclear country and the fact is that
if it didn't have nukes, then the Arab countries all around it would have
already destroyed them. Iran? All eyes are on Iran right now. The
fact is that freedom is now on the left and right of Iran. The old guard
in Iran is sandwiched between two free countries and the youth of
Iran hates the Imams and the Theocracy. Change will come to Iran
on it's own. It will come sooner, rather than later, because Afghanistan
and Iraq are now free.

The sooner your generation dies off the sooner my
generation can start to fix the mess left behind

Oh ... so this is an age thing. You don't understand because you haven't
got enough life experience. The MTV generation thinks it's cool to protest
George Bush but uncool to protest Bill Clinton. (at least that's what some
entertainers have said on TV). IF your generation lives long enough to
learn anything it will be because older generations have fought and died
to preserve the freedoms and liberties that you have.


[edit on 4/7/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
You mean THEY'RE peace keeping ... and there is a comma before the
word they're. Making. Drop the 'e'. So you are saying that the UN is
useless to stop problems and they are only good for standing around
in a secure environment? So who gets stuck with making that
environment secure? America, of course. Someone has to do it.
The UN is useless for this as you have said.

Actually if you look the UN uses diplomacy to stop the war then sends the troops to stop the fighting....also I am sorry my spelling is not up to your meticulous standards..
Also do you forget that little UN war in 1991 oh wait did that involved multiple nations no those british tanks must have been on holiday..






can't. apostrophe after the n. Silly. The coalition of the willing
didn't 'waste' Iraqis. We liberated them. They rejoiced when
they went to freely vote for the first time in forty years
(an opportunity that we provided for them). They
rejoiced when we entered the country to free them. They were
VERY happy to be free of Saddam. And no, their liberation didn't
cause more wars. What you are seeing with the illegal insurgents
is a group of people who were murderers and thieves in the old
regime and they don't want to let go of their criminal positions.
The Iraqis hate them and the insurgents will all be dead soon.

Co-alition of the willing jeesus what kind of name is that.

Some liberation...19722 dead....yeah dont they feel liberated.
Funny those crowds against the US who supported the fighters sure must have been mistaken huh.
You dont even know what the iraqi's think you havent even been there..



Oh .. and force DOES end wars. Germany and Japan in WWII
ended their advances because people fought back.

Yeah and what did it bring after wards?
Another war....



were. So 'were' a large amount. Their. off 'their' coast. One m in
amount. I'm not picking on you, but I would like to know if English
is your second language. If so please let me know because that
would help when we have to explain things to you.

Jeez you are being picky about spelling today...padantic


Yes, there are other countries that have problems and are killing
their own in mass numbers. America doesn't have the troops to
be able to step in everywhere. We just can't do it. We did go
into Iraq because of the mass murders and mass rapes ... but we
also went in because Saddam was completely unstable and was
a threat to his neighbors and therefore a threat to the stability
of the world.

No there are hundreds of countries who have dictators might I add quite a few where put there by the US..

Yeah you chose that country out of all the ones that were worse because "it represented a threat" I have a bigger threat from the IRA than I did from sadamm.



'having'. Drop the 'e' on haveing. Yes, Saddam had WMD. This
is not even in dispute at all. He mass murdered the Kurds with
WMD gas. He definately had, and used, WMD.

Oh still going on about spelling are we?
Actually no that was iranians but hey try and blame it on sadam...He had them...past tense...



'Threatening' .. no 'i'. Israel. Capital 'I' and reverse the e and the a.
Israel is not threatening. It is a nuclear country and the fact is that
if it didn't have nukes, then the Arab countries all around it would have
already destroyed them. Iran? All eyes are on Iran right now. The
fact is that freedom is now on the left and right of Iran. The old guard
in Iran is sandwiched between two free countries and the youth of
Iran hates the Imams and the Theocracy. Change will come to Iran
on it's own. It will come sooner, rather than later, because Afghanistan
and Iraq are now free.

Oh jeez stop with the "oh your spelling is bad!" Its quite sad..
Funny last time I checked several palestinians were dead from them...not from combat might I add.
How are they free?
As one of your ancestors said..." freedom cant be imposed..."



Oh ... so this is an age thing. You don't understand because you haven't
got enough life experience. The MTV generation thinks it's cool to protest
George Bush but uncool to protest Bill Clinton. (at least that's what some
entertainers have said on TV). IF your generation lives long enough to
learn anything it will be because older generations have fought and died
to preserve the freedoms and liberties that you have.

I have got life experience....just because your "older" or "wiser" doesnt mean squat...most of your generation caused the things that will kill my generation...thank you very much
Yes its an age thing, when was the last time a war was started by someone under 25?
I am not from the "mtv generation" far from it..
Bill clinton was a good pres mabye not a good man but a good pres.
My generation will survive because it has people , like me, willing to fight and stop wars...the wars that you created.
Yeah older geneation fought and died to preserve our freedoms and liberties that make us safe...want me to tell you what your generation done to make us safe..

Help fund and create terorists that can strike anywhere, help dictators get WMD and weapons that can hit ME , help create 3 new nuclear powers all hostile towards us BTW, the list goes on....

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
the UN uses diplomacy to stop the war then sends the
troops to stop the fighting....

List the wars and/or mass murders that the UN has stopped
because of it's diplomacy. tick tock tick tock ... I'm waiting.
The UN can't send troops to stop the fighting. It doesn't have
any troops.


Also do you forget that little UN war in 1991 oh
wait did that involved multiple nations

You mean Gulf War I, which was coordinated by Bush 41
and lead by the United States of America? The one that
George Bush had to go to the United Nations and push for
a resolution to allow America and the coalition that Bush
put together to go and liberate Kuwait? (Bush had to go
to the UN ... the UN didn't lead the way) The one that the
UN wouldn't give 'approval' to the coalition to go into Iraq
to get rid of Saddam ... the mass murder who started it all?


Co-alition of the willing jeesus what kind of name is that.

It's the name that the Coalition of 45 countries has. The coalition that
was willing to go into Iraq and bring freedom to the people there. They
were WILLING to go and enforce UN resolution 1441, and they were
WILLING to liberate Iraq. This is the name that has been used and
it has been used in the newspapers on on the TV news. This is the
first time you have heard it? STRANGE.


Some liberation...19722 dead....

So where are you getting your 'facts' from?
Are you claiming 19,722 dead civilians by US hands?
yeah, right.


I have a bigger threat from the IRA than I did from sadamm.

So you have a bigger threat from the IRA. Where is your precious UN?
The IRA has been around a long time. Looks like they have dropped
the ball on negotiations and/or discussions with them.



no that was iranians

No. It was Saddam. He admitted it. He was proud of it.
What road side stand are you getting your information from anyways?


Funny last time I checked several palestinians were
dead from them...not from combat might I add.

Oh, yes ... dead from being homicide bombers. Where they blow
themselves up and murder people around them in an attempt to
get to a mythical place where they can be physically serviced by 72
virginal females all cooing over them.
Hey kiddo .. it's the
Palestinians who are murdering and blowing themselves up.
You claim that 'several' Palestinian deaths are non-combat.
Well .. thousands upon thousands of Israelies are dead due to being
murdered, in non-combat, by Palestinians. That poor pregnant lady
with her five daughters (all under the age of 12) ... murdered just a
few months ago by a palestinian bomber ... murdered and the
Palestinians rejoiced calling the murder 'heroic'. Murdering a
pregnant lady and her five daughtes is 'heroic'? SICK SICK SICK


[edit on 4/7/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp


Oh .. and force DOES end wars. Germany and Japan in WWII
ended their advances because people fought back.

Yeah and what did it bring after wards? Another war....

Oh really? And pray tell what war was caused by people fighting
back against the attempted take over of their countries by Germany
and Japan? Germany tried to take over the planet. People fought
back. This was wrong? Hello?!?! Haven't you read about
Chamberlain? His famous trip to visit Hitler and negotiate so that
there wouldn't be war in England - he came back with a signed
document waving it in the air and then within weeks Hitler attacked.
What war was caused by America and England fighting against
Germany and winning? Germany hasn't attacked ever since.

Japan was the same. They attacked America. America beat them.
So how did this cause another war afterwards? Japan hasn't
attacked ever since.

Were you sleeping in history class?



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
You dont even know what the iraqi's think you havent even been there..

You don't have to go to Iraq to see what they are thinking about.
Now that they are free and allowed to speak .. they are blogging.
www.ratzingerfanclub.com...

and we even have had conversations about the blogs here at ATS
www.abovetopsecret.com...

.... now that I'm free to speak, I'm speaking!!!

They are free. They are speaking out. They are happy.

[edit on 4/7/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
List the wars and/or mass murders that the UN has stopped
because of it's diplomacy. tick tock tick tock ... I'm waiting.
The UN can't send troops to stop the fighting. It doesn't have
any troops.

Iran-iraq war.

The UN does have troops under its command BUT most countries are unwilling to actually send them into combat.



You mean Gulf War I, which was coordinated by Bush 41
and lead by the United States of America? The one that
George Bush had to go to the United Nations and push for
a resolution to allow America and the coalition that Bush
put together to go and liberate Kuwait? (Bush had to go
to the UN ... the UN didn't lead the way) The one that the
UN wouldn't give 'approval' to the coalition to go into Iraq
to get rid of Saddam ... the mass murder who started it all?

The US has the largest forces of course it led the way...
Also It would have been the security council that stopped the war so blame britain , france, russia, US and the repuplic of china for the lack of agression.
Actually It was the US and UK that started it all but hey blame sadamm overall he's a great scape goat.



It's the name that the Coalition of 45 countries has. The coalition that
was willing to go into Iraq and bring freedom to the people there. They
were WILLING to go and enforce UN resolution 1441, and they were
WILLING to liberate Iraq. This is the name that has been used and
it has been used in the newspapers on on the TV news. This is the
first time you have heard it? STRANGE.

I have heard of the co-altion not the co-altion of the willing, also willing to go in and liberate the iraqi's why?
Why not liberate the people or iran?
Hell a bigger and better one would be NK or china but hey thats another story..



So where are you getting your 'facts' from?
Are you claiming 19,722 dead civilians by US hands?
yeah, right.

www.iraqbodycount.net...
www.mykeru.com...
www.antiwar.com...
Not claiming showing..



So you have a bigger threat from the IRA. Where is your precious UN?
The IRA has been around a long time. Looks like they have dropped
the ball on negotiations and/or discussions with them.

The UN is not peace makers would you want the UN to get involved in terrorists in your country?



No. It was Saddam. He admitted it. He was proud of it.
What road side stand are you getting your information from anyways?

There was sa report that it was iranian gas that was dropped first....



Oh, yes ... dead from being homicide bombers. Where they blow
themselves up and murder people around them in an attempt to
get to a mythical place where they can be physically serviced by 72
virginal females all cooing over them.
Hey kiddo .. it's the
Palestinians who are murdering and blowing themselves up.
You claim that 'several' Palestinian deaths are non-combat.
Well .. thousands upon thousands of Israelies are dead due to being
murdered, in non-combat, by Palestinians. That poor pregnant lady
with her five daughters (all under the age of 12) ... murdered just a
few months ago by a palestinian bomber ... murdered and the
Palestinians rejoiced calling the murder 'heroic'. Murdering a
pregnant lady and her five daughtes is 'heroic'? SICK SICK SICK

Actually I was talking about military officers killing and beating civilians.....thats real nice isnt it.





Oh really? And pray tell what war was caused by people fighting
back against the attempted take over of their countries by Germany
and Japan? Germany tried to take over the planet. People fought
back. This was wrong? Hello?!?! Haven't you read about
Chamberlain? His famous trip to visit Hitler and negotiate so that
there wouldn't be war in England - he came back with a signed
document waving it in the air and then within weeks Hitler attacked.
What war was caused by America and England fighting against
Germany and winning? Germany hasn't attacked ever since.

Japan was the same. They attacked America. America beat them.
So how did this cause another war afterwards? Japan hasn't
attacked ever since.

No one here was talking about ethier of those 2 fighting...
I was talking about the cold war and varios smaller wars that led from that..Or did you forget that little comunist witch hunt america went on


Were you sleeping in history class?

We covered WW1 not 2..



Originally posted by FlyersFan
You don't have to go to Iraq to see what they are thinking about.
Now that they are free and allowed to speak .. they are blogging.
www.ratzingerfanclub.com...

Right because a few indivuals who can actually get use to computersare telling you the entire story?


and we even have had conversations about the blogs here at ATS
www.abovetopsecret.com...

.... now that I'm free to speak, I'm speaking!!!

They are free. They are speaking out. They are happy.

[edit on 4/7/2005 by FlyersFan]

So if one person tells you thier happy its ok?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Yes, they're free and happy, aren't they? That's why they're attacking Americans and commiting terrorist acts. Logic fails.

Hey, horacid....forgetting post-WWII history? How many Nazis did the US absolve of war crimes in order to help its missile projects?

DE



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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As always, DrHoracid's comment is extremely misleading, loaded with unnecessary and incorrect generalisation and aimed at evoking emotionaly tainted responses, polarising the board and creating a fight instead of intelectual discussion. "Nicely" applied psychology there, Horacid




As for the subject of discussion:
"sheltering" of criminals is a slightly misleading term.

I can compare the situation with the situation in my own country, Bosnia.
Right before the end of the war when it was clear which side is going to win, many serbs who were responsible for genocide left the country and headed for USA, Canada, Germany. They applied for refugee status, got their permanent visas/green cards and are legaly allowed to live in that country. Once that is done, the extradition is difficult. I am not a lawyer so the legal terminology will not be presented here, but basicaly it depends on laws of the country in question, the amount of evidence that exists against this person, their status in the country of residence, etc, etc.
The procedure to get them to court takes years and it also depends on how willing the local authorities are to help. For many it is just some "distant war in god forgotten uncivilised country" and they do not feel the need to comply in civilised manner.

In this case of rwandan genocide, there are also accusations against french goverment, which of course isn't an easy-to-solve situation.

The extent of french goverment involvement in Rwanda is yet to be fully determined.
Considering that France is one of the great nations of this world which has nukes stashed in their basement, it is unlikely that their goverment will be acused of anything, just like all other countries who have nukes. Such countries always do everything right (sarcasm there).

So yeah, the french goverment should allow an investigation into what really happened and be more helpful in the whole thing. France, as all other countries in the world, is a society of INDIVIDUALS, where individuals cary their own guilt, so an investigation would not be an attack on french people in general, it would be a justified persecution of criminals.
People in Rwanda deserve the truth and it should be given to them.

But to blatantly generalise the french nation and make idiotic statements like the one made in the opening post is completely unecessary and it doesn't in any way contibute to meaningful discussion and the motto "deny ingnorance".



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by FlyersFan
List the wars and/or mass murders that the UN has stopped
because of it's diplomacy

Iran-iraq war.

The Iran/Iraq war lasted 8 years. You think the UN stopped it
through diplomacy?? Hell ... it went on and on and on until
there were no people left to fight and they had to quit for a while.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Iran/Iraq war lasted 8 years. You think the UN stopped it
through diplomacy?? Hell ... it went on and on and on until
there were no people left to fight and they had to quit for a while.

Actually no both sides stopped due to UN diplomacy...read up...
8 years is nothing...europe alone has seen 100 year wars.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp


You mean Gulf War I,

Actually It was the US and UK that started it all but
hey blame sadamm overall he's a great scape goat.

Are you now blaming America and England for Saddam
invading Kuwait, stealing it's oil and murdering it's citizens?



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Are you now blaming America and England for Saddam
invading Kuwait, stealing it's oil and murdering it's citizens?

No I'm blameing the UK and US for getting sadam in power..therfore causeing the war.
If I wanted to blame england for anything it would be the fact that they have a large hooligan crowd of football supporters.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Why not liberate the people or iran?
Hell a bigger and better one would be NK
or china but hey thats another story..

The people of Iran will liberate themselves. Afghanistan is free.
Iraq is free. The youth of Iran hate the Imams and the theocracy.
They will free themselves.
China and NK go together. Liberating them would be wonderful.
The world wouldn't go for it. No one wants to get sweaty.
America can't do it all by ourselves. So the good people of
China and North Korea are stuck for the moment.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The people of Iran will liberate themselves. Afghanistan is free.
Iraq is free. The youth of Iran hate the Imams and the theocracy.
They will free themselves.

Were the iraqi people incapable of freeing themselves?
No they werent.


China and NK go together. Liberating them would be wonderful.
The world wouldn't go for it. No one wants to get sweaty.
America can't do it all by ourselves. So the good people of
China and North Korea are stuck for the moment.

No one wants more blood on thier hands for a worthless cause or more precisely a witch hunt....american drum end policy.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp


what war was caused by people fighting back against
the attempted take over of their countries by Germany
and Japan?

I was talking about the cold war and varios smaller wars that led from that..Or did you forget that little comunist witch hunt america went on


Now you have totally lost me. What are you talking about?
You said that WWII just lead to more wars .. here is the exchange ....

I said - force DOES end wars. Germany and Japan in WWII
ended their advances because people fought back.

You said - Yeah and what did it bring after wards? Another war....

You are claiming that the bloodless cold war was because we
fought back in WWII? So what would have been better?? Let
the Germans and the Japanese take over the world? Negotiations
failed. You just said that you didn't have WWII in history class ...
perhaps you should read up on Chamberlain and WWII before you
say that fighting back was bad.




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