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Stupid question..who's David Icke?

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posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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So if you're a Freemason, you can't get any worth from David Icke. I understand now.


Its not like he talks about ACTUAL Freemasons in his books. So you're right, what exactly is he wrong about?

Oh wait, no, he does actually talk about people who were specifically Masons and business deals they have done (government, military, anything that's documented) with friends of theirs who are in some cases, Masons, and in other cases, just Rich.

Being a Mason yourself, I can't imagine the compelling feeling you would have to ignore what he is saying outright at that point, as well as ruling out everything else he has to say, based on what is CRAZIEST at first glance.

Which, for the record, is non-human intelligence. This scares people sh*tless, and so they mock it.
Hmmm, how would Human Mythology describe a Non-Human Intelligence that could operate through a susceptible human being?

Possession? People need to realize the last 100 years has been nothing but a perversion of man's ancient traditions, dealing with this sort of thing (non-human intelligence).




posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Hunting Veritas

Just the same as Dan Brown does in his books, he does about a years research into the subject and writes a fictional novel with FACTS. If you just tried to force feed people these facts they would laugh it off just as I see some people doing now.


You're sooo right! You want to know why? Cuz the masses like being lied to. In the movie Sin City the head badguy (the father of the kid that Bruce Willis shot the ear off) hunts Bruce Willis down and finds him in the hospital. One of the greatest speeches in movie history is made. Better than the speech by Gordon Geko in the movie "Wall Street".
"Power isn't having a bigger dick. Or more firepower. Or being able to beat someone up, or killing someone. True power is lying and getting everyone else to accept your lies, even though deep down they know you're lying. When you can get everyone to believe lies, you can do anything!"

People, deeep down, know all the facts they've been taught, that supports their current belief system, is mostly lies. Mostly false. And when the truth is shown to them, they instantly reject it out of fear. Fear that they've been duped, wrong, for soooo long. Fear that they've been duped period.

Dan Brown, Jonathan Swift, and others, have no choice but to sugarcoat the truth in the pretext of it being "fiction". David Icke has no choice but to accept the fact that 80% of all his work that can be 100% proven to be 100% true.... will all get ignored, over the 20% of his work talking about reptilians, that can't be 100% proven true, nor 100% proven untrue.

- Dan Brown, in the Forward section of his book, says the subject and material in his books are real. For example he directly, bluntly, states the Illumanatti are real. Even though in his "fiction" book ("Angels and Demons" ) by the end it claims the Illumanatti no longer exist (and were wiped out by the church.)

- Another "fictional" book has been proven to be true, and this is one of the biggest "open secrets" of our modern times:
(No school, no college, on the planet will ever talk about this!)

"Gulliver's Travels" by Johathan Swift. In it Swift announces the planet Mars has 2 moons. In addition, Swift gives the dimensions of each moon.
"Ah, but Mars does have 2 moons!" everyone is saying. There's something else... Swift wrote and published his book decades, and decades, and decades before the 2 moons of Mars were discovered.. And, after the 2 moons were discovered, it was found that Swift gave an almost virtually perfect and accurate measuerment of not 1, but both moons of Mars!

There's also a little famous quote written by Swift:
"my principal Design was to Inform,
and not to amuse thee"


His aim was never to entertain. Never to write a work of fiction or "fiction". His aim was to tell the real, factual, truth. Just because a work is labeled fiction doesn't mean its fiction. Same when a work is labeled fact, doesn't mean its fact.

- Guess what famous sci-fi/"sci-fi" author once said:
"Science fiction has a long way to go before catching up to science fact."



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
I guess he saw the Matrix too


Yes he did cuz he even said so.
BTW, did you know the movies are utter garbage when compared to the books they're based on? See the Matrix books were getting such a strong following, that the Elite of the Elite, decided to allow the movies to be made. Which have 1% to do with the books. The Matrix books are up to part 5.
Some of the most hardcore reading anyone can do. They're in many ways the same level, and next level of reading after David Icke.


Originally posted by Trinityman
Seriously though, I haven't got a problem with a lot of Icke's writings, much of what he says is plausable, and I particularly like his pursuit of LOVE as the most powerful thing in the universe. very masonic. Very christian.


Icke is a lightsider. He also doesn't believe in Karma. These are 2 major issues that he's not correct about and it can be proven to be a detriment.

The Freemasons are a secret society. Why do they have to be sooo secret? What's to hide?



Originally posted by Trinityman
But he metaphorically blows up his own toilet when he's goes off on a tangent with the wild stuff. Because all the masons posting here know he is 'off on one' with regards to his views on masons, it makes us think what else is he wrong about. Pull one card out and the whole house starts to tumble.


Actually a house of cards can still stand up if 1 card is missing - if its built right. Next, Icke's "house" is built with stainless steel cuz of the fact the majority of the other stuff he writes about has been, and can be, 100% proven. He lists all his sources at the end of every chapter.

Obviously you never read "The Biggest Secret" even though it's free to read. Icke talks about what you say. Icke says If anyone's belief system rejects the subject of "reptilians" then skip the parts where he talks about it and read the parts about the other stuff he talks about.

If you take a test in class and score 100% its an A. You still pass.
If you score 90% it's still and A. You still pass.


Originally posted by Trinityman
At least he'd made lots of money on his books

How much money has he made? Since you claim to know for a fact he's made lots of money.
BTW, his books are free to read. So this crushes this point of yours.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by Trinityman
At least he'd made lots of money on his books


Which IS, afterall, his REAL reason for writing them....all sensationalists are that way and they depend upon a certain level of reader to buy their works....else the National Enquirer would have faded away years ago.


So anyone who makes money is a liar?
In that case, Bush Jr is a liar. Bush Sr. is a liar. Cheney is a BIG, BIG, liar, (hey they and all their buddies are making loads of profits off America's wars in the Middle East).

For the umpteeth time - David Icke's books are FREEEEE to read!. To anyone who hasn't read his books, go to any major bookstore like Barnes & Noble, Strand, Colluseium, or whatever. They on purpose allow anyone to read any book for free. They even have chairs and tables to encourage customers to read books for free!

Everyone claiming to know about David Icke, post right now which of his books you've read!

Me:
"The Biggest Secret"
"And the Truth Shall Set You Free"
"Children of the Matrix"

Icke's written roughly 8-9 books I think.....
"Robot's Rebellion" is his most recent, released a few months ago in 2004.

Everyone who hasn't read any of Icke's books, what're you waiting for? You got no excuse! Read em for free, then come to your own personal conclusion! Don't go by what I say, or anyone else says! Go by your own personal, through, investigation!

David Icke booklist:

www.bridgeoflove.com...

IMHO I recommend starting first with "The Biggest Secret" then "And the Truth Shall Set You Free" then "Robot's Rebellion", then whatever others you're intrested in.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
Its not like he talks about ACTUAL Freemasons in his books. So you're right, what exactly is he wrong about?

Oh wait, no, he does actually talk about people who were specifically Masons and business deals they have done (government, military, anything that's documented) with friends of theirs who are in some cases, Masons, and in other cases, just Rich.

Being a Mason yourself, I can't imagine the compelling feeling you would have to ignore what he is saying outright at that point, as well as ruling out everything else he has to say, based on what is CRAZIEST at first glance.

Which, for the record, is non-human intelligence. This scares people sh*tless, and so they mock it.
Hmmm, how would Human Mythology describe a Non-Human Intelligence that could operate through a susceptible human being?


I have no compelling feeling whatsoever to defend any other mason for whatever they may have done in the past. Like I've said before, there's lots of masons in the world, and we understand that not everyone can be the perfect example of a mason, even of a decent human. So what?? Again, saying that the whole fraternity is corrupt because of the actions of a few is completely illogical and absurd.

And when someone doesn't buy Icke's theories, why is it that they MUST be SCARED of what David Icke has to say? Why do they deny it because they're scared of the truth?!? Come on now, stop being absurd. We don't buy his stuff because it's silly, plain and simple. Nothing scary or hard to deal with about it, it's just not possible in my view.

And I've already stated before: I think that even Icke himself doesn't believe what he says to be true. He is a good storyteller that invokes thought and questions in the minds of his readers. But the purpose to reading his books, I'm sure, is not to interpret them literally, as many people do. In the end, that is why he sells so many books, and will keep doing so. They do what good stories should: invoke thought.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSecret2012
The Freemasons are a secret society. Why do they have to be sooo secret? What's to hide?

What's so secret about the masons?


Actually a house of cards can still stand up if 1 card is missing - if its built right. Next, Icke's "house" is built with stainless steel cuz of the fact the majority of the other stuff he writes about has been, and can be, 100% proven. He lists all his sources at the end of every chapter.

Au contraire. If I'm reading a book espousing an individual's own theory about something, and that theory is based on a number of assumptions, then I have to take a view as to how plausable those assumption are. If one of them in a field about which I know a great deal is total tosh it makes me wonder how genuine some of the others are in fields that I know less.


BTW, his books are free to read. So this crushes this point of yours.

Uh mmnmmnm [grunt] let me just push this brilliantly logical argument of yours off my squished point. Ahhh poor point.

Yeah library books are free to read too - but they were bought first. Bookshops let you read books for free (wait for it)... in the hope that you'll buy them
. Websites offer free downloads in the hope that you'll buy a book, and of course all other books by the same author. Tell me you never bought an Icke book. Tell me no-one else did. Of course he's in it for the money. He's also a complete fruit and nut case.

No - wait, up it jumps, it was faking!!! It rounds on your point, takes the piss mercilessly for a couple of minutes, then with a little twist of its little finger sends it spinning down into the Nth dimension where it gets eaten by a shape-shifting reptilian called Dave for breakfast

[
typo]

[edit on 16-4-2005 by Trinityman]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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OK, trinity man, now make fun of the following two factual topics that David Icke covers:

1) Human sacrifice in history.

2) Missing children (that aren't found).

Tell me you know all about those two subjects, and that it doesn't matter, and that he's making everything up.

Hmmm, why did the sacrificial victims have to die 'willingly'? Was it to induce fear in everyone else? Was there a reason at all, to sacrifice?

And to the second point, please do not belittle the number, as surely a handful of children that are missing inexplicably are too many. And yet, every year, in many countries, hundreds of children go missing.

Ask yourself if he really does research you don't even want to think about, for money, for material gain. Stuff people DON'T want to read, contrary to Sebatwerks totally UNINFORMED opinion.

I mean, why is there crazier isht than David Icke on the Internet for free? Are they trying to make money? No, in most cases it is disinformation, in rare cases someone is misinformed, and passing it off as fact (for eg. "Really, the Masons are going to bring down the NWO, if there even is one. They are just waiting for the right time.")

THAT would be writing just to make money, so show me the line of books, and the author that has tapped this mass potential. It would be a great way to make an easy audience, supply some facts and inside info, and wrap it up with a nice happy ending (far different to the blunt truth Icke documents).



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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people who discredit icke always word it as follows..."wot some blood sucking shapeshifting lizard man just walked pass" "wot 65 million years ago big scary monsters with big teeth occupied earth" yeah right! people forget how half the people on the planet belive that a man with a big beared sits on a cloud who made evreything in 7 days, and underneath theres a red devil with horns waiting for naughty people, one things for sure ickes got you all talking, dont be so quick to discredit, lets face it we dont what the fuxk is going on



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
OK, trinity man, now make fun of the following two factual topics that David Icke covers:

1) Human sacrifice in history.

2) Missing children (that aren't found).

Tell me you know all about those two subjects, and that it doesn't matter, and that he's making everything up.


What does this have ANYTHING to do with what we are talking about?



Ask yourself if he really does research you don't even want to think about, for money, for material gain. Stuff people DON'T want to read, contrary to Sebatwerks totally UNINFORMED opinion.


Excuse me, Akilles? You have NO IDEA how informed or uninformed I am regarding to David Icke, so don't go off spouting garbage around when you truly have no idea. You don't know me, you dont know what I ahve read or when, or what kind of research I have done, so spare us from the personal assumptions, got it?



THAT would be writing just to make money, so show me the line of books, and the author that has tapped this mass potential. It would be a great way to make an easy audience, supply some facts and inside info, and wrap it up with a nice happy ending (far different to the blunt truth Icke documents).


Actually, no. Writing to make money means writing something so controversial that people will buy your books even if they don't agree with you. Look at Shock Jocks, for example. The idea is to get people talking. THAT is writing to make money, and David Icke has done that EXCELLENTLY. From a business point of view, he runs his business very well.


[edit on 16-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:05 PM
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For the record, those who respond when not spoken to have now been ignored.

For those wish to engage in discussion when spoken to, or when they have a well-founded original opinion (other than: Everyone in the world is out to make a buck, thats the only conspiracy) please continue to use this thread. Sorry for this interruption.

I especially like how one's mind is disqualified by the fact that one played soccer, instead of choosing a real thinking man's career. Oh wait, actually, maaybe this part of his past means he really WAS all about the money, thats why he played sports! Not because of the love for it at all!

And its also proof he's not smart enough to figure out something you didn't figure out first, after all, who here doesn't have a college degree


He even grew up in a poor family, PROOF, you say, that he must always have been scheming how to make a buck. And what better way than to give the masses false hope? Please. Why acknowledge THAT he makes people think, but that it is worthless debate because "he doesn't even believe what he is saying".

Wow, show a man the respect of hearing him out, and then have the balls to address him in an intelligent manner as to what EXACTLY you think he is making up, and what you think he has researched.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
For the record, those who respond when not spoken to have now been ignored.

For those wish to engage in discussion when spoken to, or when they have a well-founded original opinion (other than: Everyone in the world is out to make a buck, thats the only conspiracy) please continue to use this thread. Sorry for this interruption.


First of all, you mentioned me in the post and criticize me, so don't say you werent talking to me. Second, if you don't want people to reply to your posts, DONT POST IN A PUBLIC FORUM.



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by OpenSecret2012
The Freemasons are a secret society. Why do they have to be sooo secret? What's to hide?

What's so secret about the masons?


Everything. If you want a super looooong looooong list of proof and sources, it's all listed at the end of every chapter in "The Biggest Secret" and "And the Truth Shall Set You Free".
There's even a statue of a guy in Washington, DC. What's his claim to fame? Being the greatest Freemason in America, and one of the greatest in the world. That guy wrote a book on how Freemasons are a secret society. If you're really, really, intrested in what's soo secret, get a pen and pad, go to any local bookstore, and read those 2 books of Icke's I mentioned just now. Write down all the sources he lists about the Freemasons. Then go look up the books (located in the boostore, or any major library.) And... it's all freeeee for you to do!



Originally posted by Trinityman
Au contraire. If I'm reading a book espousing an individual's own theory about something, and that theory is based on a number of assumptions, then I have to take a view as to how plausable those assumption are. If one of them in a field about which I know a great deal is total tosh it makes me wonder how genuine some of the others are in fields that I know less.


1. What field of it, is it, that you say you know a great deal about - that you've found Icke lacking?

2. Icke doesn't write all about 1 theory. That's the danger of this thread, and every thread about Icke. Trying to pin Icke as a guy all and about 1 subject - reptilians. Reptilians is roughly 20% of all the subjects he writes about. The other roughly 500 chapters throughout the 8 or so books he's written is about other subjects.
Icke writes about 1-5 theories, (though I consider the existance of ET's with spaceships from other planets, a fact. You and others might consider ET's from other planets a theory.
)
and 500 or more proven facts.

3. The name of this thread is "Who's David Icke?". David Icke isn't a guy who writes only about a theory about reptilians existing. He is a guy who writes about numerous subjects. One of the many, many, subjects he writes about is his theory that reptilians exist. He hasn't been able to 100% prove it. It also can't be 100% disproven. Icke's other subjects he writes about can all be 100% proven. And have been 100% proven.

3b. I've posted which of Ickes books I've read. Then I asked everyone else posting about Icke, which of his books they've read. Anyone who hasn't read any of his books cannot comment on him.

4. Anyone who has the same question as the one who started this thread, can find out for theirselves, for free who Icke is. I already posted how every major bookstore on purpose encourages customers to read any book for free. Don't go by what I say, or anyone else in this thread says. Go by what you see, read, and find out from your own personal investigation in to Icke which can be done for free, at no lost, no cost.

5. You can know zero about every field Icke talks about. As long as you know how to read, then you can look up all of Icke's sources he lists at the end of every chapter. Including the sources for the hundreds of other subjects he talks about. The real history of WW2, WW1, Russian Revolution, Opium Wars, Civil War, the geneology of the richest American families directly linking to the elite families of Europe, how Hitler was really a Jew, and much, much, much, more!



Originally posted by Trinityman

BTW, his books are free to read. So this crushes this point of yours.

Uh mmnmmnm [grunt] let me just push this brilliantly logical argument of yours off my squished point. Ahhh poor point.

Yeah library books are free to read too - but they were bought first. Bookshops let you read books for free (wait for it)... in the hope that you'll buy them
. Websites offer free downloads in the hope that you'll buy a book, and of course all other books by the same author. Tell me you never bought an Icke book. Tell me no-one else did. Of course he's in it for the money. He's also a complete fruit and nut case.


You've failed to save your point. It remains crushed, smushed, and killed.

You whine and complain Icke makes money off his books thus Icke must be a fraud. I point out you and everyone here don't have to buy any of Ickes books in order to read them and see who Icke really is.. It's like whining over a ferarri costing 100 thousand to buy and drive, and in addition saying ferarri sucks (even though one hasn't even driven it throughly!)
Then someone points out a dealer that allows you to get a ferarri for free, to throughly drive for 8 hours a day, then you have to return it at the end of the da. But you can go every day and throughly drive it again for free 8 hours every day. With ulimited free gas, full free insurance to boot!

So what if other people buy his books? You don't have to buy his books! LOL! You can read them for free! The same info is in them as the books that get purchased! You're making excuses. Those who study the esoteric, those who are Asian Martial Arts masters, Indian Martial Arts masters... would all say you don't have enough
Life Merit

to throughly check out Icke for yourself. I'm sure the 100 to 1,000 other people at this site posting, and lurking, have enough
Life Merit and will see the benifit of having nothing to lose if they go to their local bookstore and find out for theirselves "Who's David Icke?".


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The main question of this thread has been answered.
"Who Is David Icke?"

Obviously only someone who's read Icke's books can comment and can answer the question.


- David Icke is a guy who's a former worldwide celebrity who wrote a bunch of books that cover many, many, subjects. His books are about what he's found out after spending the past 10-15 years traveling the world using his money to dig for as much truth as possible. Everyone loved him, loved his work. No one had any problems with his sources he listed. Everything he wrote about was 100% proven. Then recently he started talking/writting about certain 1 subject. Some are claiming since this 1 certain subject he's recently writting about can't be 100% proven, then everyone should now start ignoring the tons of other subjects he's been writting about that no one's been able to refute.


Now it's up to the person who made this thread, and anyone else with the same question, to go to their local bookstore (Barnes & Noble, Strand, Collesium Books, whatever) and read David Ickes books for free. Then come up with their own personal conclusion. After doing their own personal investigation into Icke, and Icke's sources he lists at the end of every chapter on the hundreds of subjects he writes about.


[edit on 18-4-2005 by OpenSecret2012]



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by DavidIkeBokSalesAgent

Originally posted by Trinityman
What's so secret about the masons?


Everything. If you want a super looooong looooong list of proof and sources, it's all listed at the end of every chapter in "The Biggest Secret" and "And the Truth Shall Set You Free".
There's even a statue of a guy in Washington, DC. What's his claim to fame? Being the greatest Freemason in America, and one of the greatest in the world. That guy wrote a book on how Freemasons are a secret society. If you're really, really, intrested in what's soo secret, get a pen and pad, go to any local bookstore, and read those 2 books of Icke's I mentioned just now. Write down all the sources he lists about the Freemasons. Then go look up the books (located in the boostore, or any major library.) And... it's all freeeee for you to do!


Stop referring me to third parties - it shows a lack of respect to other people trying to follow this discussion. If you can't make your point yourself then don't bother. Do you have an opinion of your own or do you just regurgitate David Icke? You tell me why you think freemasons are secret.

Secretly in the yellow pages, secretly have websites, secretly explain to all and sundry their aims and goals, secretly come on to ATS to deny the appalling ignorance people like you have about us.


1. What field of it, is it, that you say you know a great deal about - that you've found Icke lacking?


Freemasonry. Icke, like you, knows very little about it. And he makes wild speculations about it based on that little knowledge. Just like you.


3. The name of this thread is "Who's David Icke?". David Icke isn't a guy who writes only about a theory about reptilians existing. He is a guy who writes about numerous subjects. One of the many, many, subjects he writes about is his theory that reptilians exist. He hasn't been able to 100% prove it. It also can't be 100% disproven. Icke's other subjects he writes about can all be 100% proven. And have been 100% proven.


The untruths he has written about freemasonry cannot be proven, obviously, because they're lies. Which makes the above point incorrect.


3b. I've posted which of Ickes books I've read. Then I asked everyone else posting about Icke, which of his books they've read. Anyone who hasn't read any of his books cannot comment on him.


Oh, you mean like your comment about Freemasonry when you've done no independent research WHATSOEVER.


You whine and complain...


No I don't. I'm trying to have a rational discussion with you. I am telling you that freemasonry is not a hot bed of conspiracy, and we are not shape-shifting draconian lizards.

I'm not interested in your David Icke propaganda - I'm trying to get to the truth.

So lets try this again. Tell me why you believe freemasonry is secret. Because all the evidence points against it.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by DavidIkeBokSalesAgent

Originally posted by Trinityman
What's so secret about the masons?


Everything. If you want a super looooong looooong list of proof and sources, it's all listed at the end of every chapter in "The Biggest Secret" and "And the Truth Shall Set You Free".
There's even a statue of a guy in Washington, DC. What's his claim to fame? Being the greatest Freemason in America, and one of the greatest in the world. That guy wrote a book on how Freemasons are a secret society. If you're really, really, intrested in what's soo secret, get a pen and pad, go to any local bookstore, and read those 2 books of Icke's I mentioned just now. Write down all the sources he lists about the Freemasons. Then go look up the books (located in the boostore, or any major library.) And... it's all freeeee for you to do!


Stop referring me to third parties - it shows a lack of respect to other people trying to follow this discussion. If you can't make your point yourself then don't bother. Do you have an opinion of your own or do you just regurgitate David Icke? You tell me why you think freemasons are secret.

Secretly in the yellow pages, secretly have websites, secretly explain to all and sundry their aims and goals, secretly come on to ATS to deny the appalling ignorance people like you have about us.


Your last sentance says it all about you and your mindset. You claim you're a Freemason. Good for you if it's true. Here's my point in blatant words:

1. Yeah I not only believe the Freemasons are a secret society, I know it. I've arrived at this conclusion from 3 main ways all of which involved me doing my own personal investigations.

A. I know many, many, current members of the Freemasons. From the highest (officially known) rank, all the way down to the lowest ranks. And they tell me the things, incidents, happenings, and events, history, intent, and plans. For people who enter the middle door, left door, and the people who enter the right side door. And even for the people who exit out the back door to enter secret societies far higher level than the Freemasons.


B. I have some "royal" blood in me, and have been privy to Freemasonry, and it's secrets and "secrets". For example how I can speed on a highway doing more than 100mph, get pulled over, have out of date insurance, registration, and the police give me back my paperwork and then drive off leaving me alone. Because they know even though I'm not an official member, my friends, family, and family friends, are members, and high ranking members. They enter Freemason temples through the right-side door.
I latter decided it wasn't for me, and never officially joined. For all the secret and "secret" benifits, especially at the highest ranks, one has to litterally "sell their soul and body" aka they own you forever.

C. The tons of research done by others. Those you call "third party" sources. If you choose to ignore them, it's your choice. So far the "third party" sources I've mentioned (along with the tons I haven't mentioned) have shown that their sources are 100% true, and irrefutable.
For example, David Icke doesn't say anything about the Freemasons. It's his sources that tell the tale of the Freemasons. He and his books simply direct people to these sources from major newspapers, magazines, books, and litteral objects like flags, architecture, and other structures anyone can visit.

Now, you can go on and on saying all I post is not true. And I can go on and on saying how it's all true. Guess what? It's up to the other lurkers, and posters to then do their own personal research to see how much I say is true or not true. So you go on keep posting that all I say is false. Even after I list "third party" sources that have even more sources listed, which can all then be looked up, and researched by everyone else here.



Originally posted by Trinityman

1. What field of it, is it, that you say you know a great deal about - that you've found Icke lacking?


Freemasonry. Icke, like you, knows very little about it. And he makes wild speculations about it based on that little knowledge. Just like you.


*sigh*
Tell me which of Icke's sources about Freemasonry is not true? He lists all his sources at the end of every chapter in his books. Now which one of these sources about Freemasonry is untrue?



Originally posted by Trinityman

The untruths he has written about freemasonry cannot be proven, obviously, because they're lies. Which makes the above point incorrect.

You completly missed what I posted about. Everything Icke's written about the Freemasons has already been proven. Everything else Icke's written about, the many, many, other subjects he's written about, has already been proven. The only subject Icke's been unable to 100% prove is his theory about reptilians. It also can't be 100% disproven either. So it still stands as a theory. It's up to everyone else to read his books for free, then research all the sources he lists. Go visit the 2 areas in California he says are still used as gathering places for reptilians to do their sacrificing ceremonies. Go research the other sources he lists.


Originally posted by Trinityman

3b. I've posted which of Ickes books I've read. Then I asked everyone else posting about Icke, which of his books they've read. Anyone who hasn't read any of his books cannot comment on him.


Oh, you mean like your comment about Freemasonry when you've done no independent research WHATSOEVER.


I'm posting about Freemasonry from Icke's view. You even quote this quote of mine, and you still refuse to say which of Icke's books you've read! LOL! If you'd go read his books for free, you can then blow Icke away forever! How? Just make a list of all of Icke's sources Icke lists in his books, then you post evidence to refute em all!



Originally posted by Trinityman

You whine and complain...


No I don't. I'm trying to have a rational discussion with you. I am telling you that freemasonry is not a hot bed of conspiracy, and we are not shape-shifting draconian lizards.

I'm not interested in your David Icke propaganda - I'm trying to get to the truth.

So lets try this again. Tell me why you believe freemasonry is secret. Because all the evidence points against it.


Umm... No where does Icke ever say Freemasons are shape-shifting reptilians or draconians, or any other non-human aliens/beings. Icke views Freemasonry as a low to mid level secret society. There's many other secret societies that make the Freemasons look like little 4yr old kids. They have far, far, more power, history, connections, than the highest ranking Freemason. Many of them own, and either directly, or indirectly run, the Freemasons.

All the evidence listed in Icke's books ("The Biggest Secret", "And the Truth Shall Set You Free", point to Freemasonry as being a secret society.) You refuse to go check out Icke's books and Icke's sources yourself. Even though it's free. This is your own personal decision.
Everyone else lurking and posting here will make their own personal decisions to check out Ickes books and Icke's sources for their own selves. For free!

Freemasonry is just 1, one, of the many, many, many, many, many, subjects David Icke talks about, writes about, and covers.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSecret2012
A. I know many, many, current members of the Freemasons. From the highest (officially known) rank, all the way down to the lowest ranks. And they tell me the things, incidents, happenings, and events, history, intent, and plans. For people who enter the middle door, left door, and the people who enter the right side door. And even for the people who exit out the back door to enter secret societies far higher level than the Freemasons.



YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!!! NO MASON has ever told you things like that. None, zip, zero, zilch. Others may not know this, but you and I both do, so stop lying. Admit that NO MASON has ever mentioned any kind of "things, incidents, happenings, and events, history, intent, and plans". It's impossible, because they do not exist. And you, sir, are a BALD-FACED LIAR.

And NOTHING you said about going through right doors, then left doors, etc. is correct. Just so you know.




B. I have some "royal" blood in me, and have been privy to Freemasonry, and it's secrets and "secrets". For example how I can speed on a highway doing more than 100mph, get pulled over, have out of date insurance, registration, and the police give me back my paperwork and then drive off leaving me alone. Because they know even though I'm not an official member, my friends, family, and family friends, are members, and high ranking members. They enter Freemason temples through the right-side door.
I latter decided it wasn't for me, and never officially joined. For all the secret and "secret" benifits, especially at the highest ranks, one has to litterally "sell their soul and body" aka they own you forever.


GOOD GOD YOU ARE SOOOOO FULL OF IT!!!!! THIS IS AMAZING!!!! You have NEVER been privvy to ANY secrets of masonry because you are NOT a mason. Royal bloodline or not, doesnt matter. Freemasonry has nothing to do with that, and YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH MASONRY!!!! You and I both know this.

But, to give you the benefit of the doubt, please tell us what masonic "secrets" you have been privvy to. Please share. If you can tell me ONE verifiable "secret", I will leave this forum and never come back.

This is truly funny! I CANT BELIEVE you would have THE BALLS to actually claim this in front of a dozen Freemasons who KNOW you are COMPLETELY FULL OF IT!!! You got some cajones, homie.

Even non-masons know that NO BENEFITS of masonry are EVER given to anyone who hasn't been initiated (other than female relatives of masons).

And, by the way, masons have no way of getting out of tickets. I got one just the other day. The only people on this earth that have those kinds of benefits are large-breasted women.

You have quite an imagination, my friend.


[edit on 21-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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Oh wow. Opensecret2012 - I don't know where to start.

Yes I do - lets start with a quote from me.


Seriously though, I haven't got a problem with a lot of Icke's writings, much of what he says is plausable...


I don't have it in for David Icke. I've supported Coventry City since I was born and he wasn't the worst goalkeeper we ever had.
But I'm here on this forum primarily to correct inaccuracies about masonry, and whether David Icke wrote it himself or repeats stuff from other people the end result is the same. He has a perfect right to talk as much nonsense or otherwise as he wants, but when he starts talking about freemasonry I'm going to take an interest.

If I'm being unfair, put me right. You know more about David Icke than I do.


Your last sentance says it all about you and your mindset. You claim you're a Freemason. Good for you if it's true.


Yes it's true. Why do you think I would lie about something like that? And I'm intrigued to know what you think my mindset is.


Here's my point in blatant words:

1. Yeah I not only believe the Freemasons are a secret society, I know it. I've arrived at this conclusion from 3 main ways all of which involved me doing my own personal investigations.

A. I know many, many, current members of the Freemasons. From the highest (officially known) rank, all the way down to the lowest ranks. And they tell me the things, incidents, happenings, and events, history, intent, and plans. For people who enter the middle door, left door, and the people who enter the right side door. And even for the people who exit out the back door to enter secret societies far higher level than the Freemasons.


For the purposes of answering this question I'm going to assume you live in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong. In the US there are about 80 regular Grand Lodges. Each one has a Grand Master, which is the highest 'rank' in freemasonry. So do you know a Grand Master? Also, there is only one door in and out of a lodge. Your 'facts' lead me to believe you are talking about something other than freemasonry - an irregular order perhaps, or a side degree, or perhaps as has already been stated you're making it up.


B. I have some "royal" blood in me ... [snip nonsense] ... they own you forever.


What you are describing doesn't happen in freemasonry. You should know this, with 'royal blood' you will be, as David Icke suggests, part of the problem not part of the solution. Perhaps you are an 8-foot lizard?


C. The tons of research done by others etc etc blah blah


Yeah right.


Now, you can go on and on saying all I post is not true. And I can go on and on saying how it's all true. Guess what? It's up to the other lurkers, and posters to then do their own personal research to see how much I say is true or not true. So you go on keep posting that all I say is false. Even after I list "third party" sources that have even more sources listed, which can all then be looked up, and researched by everyone else here.


I am very happy for people to do their own research, believe me.


Icke views Freemasonry as a low to mid level secret society. There's many other secret societies that make the Freemasons look like little 4yr old kids. They have far, far, more power, history, connections, than the highest ranking Freemason. Many of them own, and either directly, or indirectly run, the Freemasons.


Y'see, this is where you start repeating nonsense again. Freemasonry cannot be owned. It isn't a company, there are no stocks. It is a movement, a 'way of life' if you like.

Most jurisdictions elect their leaders democratically, explain how they can be 'run' by an outside organisation. Also, if freemasonry is being run by a shadowy organisation, then it must be a good one, promoting all that morality and charitable giving. Millions of freemasons have benefitted spiritually and emotionally from their membership.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that freemasonry is a secret society. Just speculation, extrapolation, hearsay and nonsense repeated ad nauseam until people start to believe it simply because its repeated so much. Any 'evidence' you have I would be pleased to refute in open forum, otherwise I will repeat yet again the facts about freemasonry:

Meets in clearly identified buildings
Listed in phone books and yellow pages
Yearbooks list names of members, and some addresses of senior members
Yearbooks list times, dates and locations of meetings
Websites list information about organisation - aims, leadership, latest news
Easy to join
Easy to leave
Members only admitted to meetings

This is not secret. This is a private club. Get over it.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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I just finished reading "Them (Adventures with extremists) by Jon Ronson.

In an amusing chapter on Icke he outlines another aspect to the bizzare reptilian theory and attempts to silence him. Icke's views are so out there that many believe he is actually speaking in code and when he says "Reptilian" he really means "Jew" When he spoke in Vancouver there were even attempts to have him charged under Canada's hate crime laws.

Sometimes a lizard is just a lizard.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!!!


Aw, calm down my Brother...I wouldn't say that Opensecret2012 is a liar. Liars lie on purpose. With ill intent.

If closed-minded Opensecret2012 REALLY believes the nonsense that he's posted,[....]




[edit on 22-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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Back on topic, Icke should be taken with a grain of salt. He is a conspircy theorist and this is a conspiracy website, right?
If Icke says things about Masonry that are false, that doesn't make everything else he wrote false. If he accurately portrayed a Mason who did wrong, is that a problem?

IMO, he does come off very well talking about religions in the Biggest Secret, but I don't necessarily thingk he's 100% on. And I bet the religious right would get into a froth about those chapters.

Don't you think his main purpose in writing, after money, is to provoke thought?



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 09:50 PM
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Calm down people!!! And take the cake picture away. This is a discussion forum, not a kiddie playground.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by OpenSecret2012
A. I know many, many, current members of the Freemasons. From the highest (officially known) rank, all the way down to the lowest ranks. And they tell me the things, incidents, happenings, and events, history, intent, and plans. For people who enter the middle door, left door, and the people who enter the right side door. And even for the people who exit out the back door to enter secret societies far higher level than the Freemasons.



YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!!!


This sums up every single past, present, and future response of you to me.

I leave it up to the other posters, and lurkers, to find out, and research on their own, if what I say is true, or if what you say is true.

I leave it up to the other posters, and lurkers, to find out for free, what and who David Icke is, by reading his books - for free.
I've read Icke's books, and so have answered the main topic, subject, and question of this thread. You haven't read any of Icke's books, yet you still feel you're in position to answer the main question of this thread. I'll leave it to the posters and lurkers, to use their own intelligence in deciding who to go by. And if they go check out David Icke for free. If they do, then they too will be able to answer for their ownselves what and who David Icke is - since they'll have actually read his books.




Originally posted by sebatwerk
And, by the way, masons have no way of getting out of tickets. I got one just the other day. The only people on this earth that have those kinds of benefits are large-breasted women.

You have quite an imagination, my friend.


[edit on 21-4-2005 by sebatwerk]


Freemasonry is more than being "just a member". It's about your bloodlines. In the words of Pike, in his little book,
Morals and Dogma,

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

talking about the information allowed to members..... the majority of members only get to see the "courtyard". The select few actually get to enter the "house". Even fewer get to see all the "rooms". If you really want to do more in depth research about Freemasonry, read that famous little book by one of the most famous, and greatest, or "greatest", Freemasons of the past 200 years - the one and only Albert Pike. He even got his own statue in the capital of the USA.

The elite adepts of Freemasonry will never tell you about the highest level knowledge. You and the majority of members will go through your entire lives not even knowing about the knowledge only the very few are let in on. The primary factor that determines this is one's bloodlines.

Last, once again, you can go on and on posting how what I say is untrue. And I can go on posting my info. You've made your own personal decision, even though you haven't read any of Ickes books. It's now up to everyone else to do their own personal research, to read Ike's books (for free ) and then decide how much of what I say is right, or wrong. How much of what you say is right, or wrong. How much Icke says is right, or wrong.


[edit on 22-4-2005 by OpenSecret2012]



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