Alternative energy sources... which are best to support?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just posted this, got no replies as of yet but it's an important development IMHO.

that would be a great thing...
in places like hawaii. Too bad it requires an extremely deep ocean right next to the plant.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
that would be a great thing...
in places like hawaii. Too bad it requires an extremely deep ocean right next to the plant.

So... It could be used to generate H2 cleanly which then can be exported. The same thing goes with the Solar Tower the aussies are planning on building, it only works good in the desert.

The entire point is Location, Location, Location. Think Locally, expand Globally.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

I have been suggesting this approach in almost every one of my posts regarding future energy systems, and no one has said doodly-squat about it.

Using a stirling-cycle engine to generate power (and electricity) from the temperature delta was done back in the 1920's; it just couldn't compete with cheap electricity derived from burning hydrocarbons or hydroelectricity a la TVA.

It's great to see that some attention is finally being paid to this approach.

However, (and this is the old engineer coming out) three are still a lot of things to consider between the concept and implementing the actual device.

Since we need access to deep seawater to gt the temp delta, I think it'd make more sense to build the generators on offshore platforms rather than on islands -- especially if you're planning onn feeding inland users. the sosts of drilling might be less that the cost of transmitting the energy (perhaps in the form of liquid hydrogen) to the shore and the ultimate users (via fuel cells).

As a matter of fact, you could use the offshore waters to provide not only the electricity to crack the water, but the water itself as the fuel's "raw material".

Yeah I hear you OtS, if it doesn't have ZPE or Perpetual motion in the Title or Body of the thread post then people don't care. Get more people to notice it if you go and shout it out at some corner in the middle of downtown.

I see that OTS is pleased by an idea...
that is so nice... I am truly glad that you are finding good ideas among these presented...

here is one of the possible hydrogen generators that seems to give a net gain of energy... can you all check it out for me...

if true, it would seal the deal for fuel cells being the next big thing...
if not, well... the ball bounces... you know...
cheap hydrogen

[edit on 27-5-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

Would it be possible for feces to be used in any way as an energy source?

Does poop posess any qualities that would make it a potential candidate? Feces does have nitrogen in it, does it not? Perhaps there might be some way to refine or modify it. I mean, it's a free, renewable resource. Perhaps each home could have a generator run on it. The waste would go from the toilets through a filter, and then be used by the generator. I'd love to hear someone's thought about this!!

any organic waste can be used as fuel... but should it...

excuse the pun, but burning sewage would be a crappy business...
and as far as payout... the gain would be little compared to burning cow dung,
which is rich in methane organics...
they have methane farms that collect natural gas from manure vats...
essentially this is bacterial energy... as the methane is produced by bacteria in the dung

I'd have to say fuel cell. Only because its soo much safer on our enviroment and people. Plus compared to rising gas and oil prices it would same us millions and millions of dollars in fuel costs. We would never have to worry about changing oil again. The only down fall is that this type of technology is that its too expensive and there isn't enough research done on it.

find a ready cheap way to produce hydrogen, and you are correct...
until then, we need to still look...

OTS and others have pointed out that NO ONE KIND will work for all...

wind in central lightly populated areas..

the ocean temp interchange thingy (that OTS mentioned) for coastal areas...

biodiesel in areas hard to service...

we are getting there... we just figured out how to transfer about 30%-40% of the countrys energy usage, without compromising energy allotment...
(keep in mind, that a portion is presently produced using clean methods like hydrothermal and geothermal)

also keep in mind that we would have several new industrys that provide nice jobs also... (politicians love two bird solutions)

Very interesting article on Wired today about the new type of Solar Array that is cheaper and more effiecient then conventional panels.

www.wired.com...



All those mirrors track the sun with only 2 motors!

How the Sunflower Solar Concentrator Works

1. The sun's rays strike the Sunflower's 25-mirror array.

2. The mirrors are aligned to focus incoming light into a concentrated point.

3. The concentrated light strikes an overhead­ panel of photovoltaic silicon, creating electrical current. A processor analyzes the reflections to track the sun's position and instructs a pair of motors in the base of the Sunflower to realign the mirrors accordingly.

The challenge for Energy Innovations' engineers was to keep a grid of 25 mirrors focused on a single point as the sun travels across the sky - and to do it cheaply. The goal: control each mirror independently without requiring separate motors for each mirror.

The key: a surface - based on a mathematical curve called the conchoid of Nicomedes - that dictates the position of each mirror. The surface, sampled at 25 points, is represented in the Sunflower by a grid of ball bearings attached to a swinging frame.

Moving the frame requires only two motors: As it swings on an x-y axis, the bearings move the mirrors in tandem, yet each mirror follows its individual path.

The important thing about this energy issue, is what is needed is more CHEAP energy. The progress of civilization has followed a progression of cheaper as well as more compact energy sources. Muscle, then wood, then coal, then oil, then hydro, then nuclear. None of the alternative energies advance this progess. To be forced to rely on any or even all of the alternatives would force a fundamental economic change back to a simpler, less productive way of life - actually, I vote for that. The only potentially cheaper source of energy would be fusion energy, which is why it has been the holy grail of energy research for decades.
Ya, I've read all about the so called "free" energies. The source may be free but it is very expensive to convert into any useful form. Sunlight is great, but it is relatively quite diverse and the process of concentrating and converting it into something usefull like AC electricity requires a lot of equipment. (Although there is real hope that the nanotech people will have a breakthrough here)
Remember - its not about the energy, it is about the cost of the energy, and all the current sources of the cheap energies are about maxed out. When you have economies designed around growth, that's a problem.
You want to help support an alternative energy? Ask the nanosolar.com people if you can take out their garbage or sweep their floors or something. Some political action to increase the state and federal incentives so that the slow process of adopting some noneconomic energy will be accelerated.
Oh ya, since this is the conspiracy forum, I think there is a concerted effort not to use any distributed energy sources that they can't control.

My bet would be on Biomass becoming number one. we have plenty of waste that could be converted into energy. let's use our brains people!!!!!

Using radiowaves, you can have energy of your own.
here are the materials you need.
small tesla generator
-4 germanium diodes (1n34)
-2 100µF 50V electrolytic capacitors
-0.2µF 50V ceramic capacitors

i have the blueprint but do not know how to post it but can be found easily on the internet or youtube.

Super-conductive cables can be one part of a future energy-grid. This technology enables better transfer of more energy then conventional cables. Denmark and USA has invested some in super-conducting energy-grids. But, I think they will loose this race to China. China has also some interest in superconductive cables, and they are doing some heavy investments in their future infrastructure. Here is an article that expands further on this issue:
www.china.org.cn...

Then there is tidal power. There is a small company in Norway (don't tell people about this) that makes some small units for harvesting tidal energy. These units are cheap in materials. The rotors they use are actually wood. They are fast and flexible to set up. They convert some of the currents of the sea to electricity.
www.wix.com...

Also, I have been giving some thought to micro-power. I use micro-power myself now with a watch and a flashlight that gathers their own energy. Cell-phone chargers are getting there too. Imagine when we start disconnecting more and more of the small units from the grid. Then comes larger units like lightning.

Most of this really cracks me up. Internalize this..... the only readily available energy source that can replace oil and coal is nuclear; nothing else has the BTU's per pound, and BTU's are what it's all about. Solar will never work for large scale generation because: 1- they'll never reach even 80% efficiency; 2- it would take 40,000 acres of land to replace the energy from one oil well that takes up maybe a 30 x 30 foot area.... the enviro-whackos/Luddites will never allow it. Same goes for wind power; output versus land mass and the Luddites. Then consider that it will never be "cheap" because governments have to subsidize it. Even this crap with alcohol mixed with gasoline..... it's dismal failure because it pollutes more, does damage to your engine and, because of the lower BTU's of the mix, it costs more to use, too.

And, please....... some of you please catch up.... there is no human caused global warming; the earth cooled enough in the late 90's to reduce about 100 years of global warming. Co2 can't be blamed for both warming and cooling the planet. Co2 is not a pollutant, it's plant food. Water vapor and the Sun drive the Earth's climate. The best alternative is Helium 3. THAT'S the energy they should be developing. One shuttle-load of it could produce enough energy to power America for about one year.

I felt a bump was needed after watching quite a few documentaries featuring the sunject of "Peak Oil" (I know I'm a late arriver). Some real wealth of knowledge in this thread, and now more than ever I believe that we really need to take this matter seriously. Libya chaos and the rise of gasoline prices is a fraction of what's in store for us in the near future. I usually think of myself as somewhat well informed, but honestly I had no idea how invested and reliant our country, and the world for that matter, is on oil. I still don't get why hemp isn't legal to be quite honest (I mean I do- cotton, timber, petro products, durable fiber, pharmaceutical medicines and products etc... are all against it). But we really need to face this problem seriously else it's back to the early 1800's for us.

I don't think there is one practical cure all... Each region of the Earth should use what works for their area.
Northern Virginia is windy, South Carolina is always sunny, Kentucky is always raining, Up North is cold. Ideas such as; garbage, human waste, water, wind, solar, anything but fossil feuls. My brother has spent the last decade trying to invent something... he won't say. I sure hope he cracks it, his family of five lives at the poverty level. He has two engineering degrees. Its been a worrisome family problem....inventers who make it deserve it.
He'll probably never make it and should get back to corporate life.

We need to start building trash(biomass) to synfuel plants now and do away with landfills.

These plants are based on a proven tech the Fischer–Tropsch process that was used in WW2 by the germans.
en.wikipedia.org...

Land fills are a major source of methane that is a worse green house gas then CO2.
these plants can also use sewage as a feed stock.

These plants can also use there waste heat for water purification (from the water in the sewage or other sources like sea water) this would clean up the drugs in the drinking water problem in most of the US.

Bring this system online across the US and running all the trash in the US we would cut the need for foreign oil by over 40% plus cut the sulfur in fuel to 0.

These plants can make a synthetic replacements for all fuels used today plus all potential fuel cell fuels including hydrogen.
And all from waste.

If you added plants to use AG waste and other sources of organic materials like wood and plant waste(grass and brush ECT ECT ) you would be getting close to 50% cut in foreign oil.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


REPLY: I agree. What stinks is that we are the only industrialized country not using it's own resources, and we have enough that we could be exporting it ourselves. By the way, the whole thing about peak oil is a fallacious as human caused global warming.