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US kidnapping relatives of insurgents?

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posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
You "put up your dukes" and assume the "gentlemen Jim" pose and get ready to bare knuckle it. But your opponent picks up some sand and throws it in your eyes, then kicks you in the groin then proceeds to bite you while pulling your hair....You still continue to put your dukes up and try to fight fair? Take your beating like a man? Or do you change your tactics to handle a dirty fighter?


Changing tactics and adopting your opponent's dirty tactics are 2 completely different things.

This analogy is piss-poor at best, especally because it doesn't take into account the fact that person who is using dirty tactics has had his home invaded and occupied, over a pile of lies.


Not that the use of dirty tactics is justified - because it's not - you're just failing to paint the whole picture.




posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by negativenihil
This analogy is piss-poor at best, especally because it doesn't take into account the fact that person who is using dirty tactics has had his home invaded and occupied, over a pile of lies.


Not that the use of dirty tactics is justified - because it's not - you're just failing to paint the whole picture.


The analogy is perfect. I cant recall in any of my posts where I condone being there or the war in general, can you quote me on that? But I do support my brothers and sisters there fighting it and they have 100% of my approval to do anything they see fit to "win" and come home safely. And if that mean ounding up terrorists families in the hopes of capturing them, then I am just fine with that. Round up the grandparents, cousins, and pets if need be, whatever. Heck, thier families are safer in US hands than in the hands of thier terrorist family members anyways.

Check this story out by Bikereddie regarding what these animals do to eachother:

by Bikerddie

"My son is serving over in Iraq with the British Army. He is currently a door gunner on the Lynx helicopters and also seconded as the platoon sniper.

He had leave at Christmas and is now due home sometime next month.

There is one story he had to tell me. I deliberated on weather or not to post, but decided i needed to share this.

For obvious reasons I'm not going to reveal where he was when the following took place.

His squadron was based just outside a small village near to where most of the trouble was happening. After a few weeks, they began to get know the local kids, who were always around asking for water.
They used to give the kids the water and tried to make conversation with them. They taught them English to an extent, enough to be able to be understood, names etc.
My son was quiet taken with a 9 year old girl who , according to him seemed to be the odd one out among the other children. He used to give her chocolate bars from his ration packs and the boiled sweets that they get.
This went on for weeks, until he handed over some chocolate to the girl in the street. Some elders or maybe part of her family were sitting in the background watching this happen. Nothing was said, just a waved hand and a smile.

He never saw this girl again until 3 weeks later. She was hanging from a tree. She had been hung because she had taken "gifts" from a westerner. The girls family were distraught. They didnt blame my son, but they thanked my him for taking the time to help her and to make her happy.


My son phoned me in tears when he found out what had happened. He still feels like he was to blame for some part in this. Maybe if he hadn't given her things ,then she might still be alive?This is what he thought.
I told him to take comfort in what he did for the unfortunate girl, and look back at how it made her smile and brought a small piece of happiness into her life.
He will live with that memory for ever. He even has the phototgraph of her in his wallet. He said he needs to keep it.

I apologize if this has upset anyone, but it made me cry when he was telling me about it. Hell, i even got choked up writing this.

There is a lot to this War that we will never get to know."


Oh yes, those dredfull Americans and Britts, man they are terrible!!! Poor insurgents and terrorists. BAH!



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
The analogy is perfect. I cant recall in any of my posts where I condone being there or the war in general, can you quote me on that?


Your stance on the war was never in question. i dont really understand what you're getting at with the whole "can you quote me" part, but whatever.



Oh yes, those dredfull Americans and Britts, man they are terrible!!! Poor insurgents and terrorists. BAH!


Sigh. I'm so bored with this style of debate.

Let's just leave it at this - you support the use of terrorists tactics, while i do not. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by negativenihil

Let's just leave it at this - you support the use of terrorists tactics, while i do not. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.



LOL. Thats nearly as bad as "Lets just assume im right and your wrong and drop it"

I support agressive tactics, not terrorists ones. Your hatred of the USA and the west are apparent and blind your reasoning. And ill just leave it at that. Go save some whales...



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
I support agressive tactics, not terrorists ones. Your hatred of the USA and the west are apparent and blind your reasoning. And ill just leave it at that. Go save some whales...


My hatred for the USA?!

HATRED? So now i hate the USA because i do not support the use of the SAME tactics that terrorists use?

Piss off. It's people like you that help to keep the nation polarized. I have a RIGHT as a TAXPAYING American citizen to question the government and military *I* help to fund.

Why don't you take your childish debate style over to freerepublic or something
you'll fit right in.

Christ, if anyone here hates the USA, it's YOU skippy.

[edit on 6-4-2005 by negativenihil]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by negativenihil


So that makes it ok for us to do so?



OK, negative... We've all heard the can't do this and can't do that from you and your fellow terrorist appeasers and sympathizers.

But what exactly is your plan for dealing with these terrorsts - if you even have one?



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
OK, negative... We've all heard the can't do this and can't do that from you and your fellow terrorist appeasers and sympathizers.


Until you can actually have an adult debate without labeling someone with a different viewpoint as a terrorist appeaser and sympathizer i'm not going to put any effort into replying to your posts.




posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Makes me pround to know that my country is part of an enterprise fighting not for oil, not for WMD, but for freedom for the average Iraqi.

Makes me even prouder to know that there is no low we wont stoop too in our quest for freedom.

They fight back, we torture them, they kill our men we beat them to death.
They take hostages, we threated their families...

Brings a tear to the eye....



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Why don't you answer the rest of his post and come up with a good idea on how to handle these beasts? Please also do not state opinions such as " we should have never gone their in the first place" or "the best solution is to just leave". The fact of the matter is those family members are more likely being fed better, sheltered safer, and prodived better personal hygine(SP?) under Coalition custody than in their homes. We arent hanging them on trees, cutting their heads off, or beating their faces in and dunking them in raw sewage. Its like this "your son(s) is/are supporting terrorist or are actively participating in terrorist activities. We are therefore going to take you into our custody until they have turned themselves in, or are identified as killed in action." My hope, maybe they will convert to christians and pray for forgiveness, I don't see it happening but I can continue to hope some of them are doign this.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Sorry, i feel that by copying terrorist tactics the coalition loses some of its integrity. I dont know how i would deal with the situation, it could be that this is the best solution.

That doesnt make it right. Two wrongs dont make a right, remeber what your mummys used to tell you.

And how does converting the population of Iraq to christianity help?
And where is the evidence for any conversion taking place?



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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An Interesting Story. Is It True?

I've been following Reuters long enough to have several reasonable doubts about it as a news agency, and in particular with respect to its reporting on Iraq.

What I don't see anywhere in the source article or in this thread is an indication that what Arkan Mukhlif al-Batawi alleges actually occurred.

Waiting For The Facts

Since all that have been presented are allegations without any form of corroboration I am aware of, it seems premature to make assumptions about them.

Is anyone aware of any form of corroboration from a credible source regarding the allegations made in the source article?



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by centurion1211
OK, negative... We've all heard the can't do this and can't do that from you and your fellow terrorist appeasers and sympathizers.


Until you can actually have an adult debate without labeling someone with a different viewpoint as a terrorist appeaser and sympathizer i'm not going to put any effort into replying to your posts.



OK, let's see if you can respond to just the simple question of what's your plan?



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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What defines a terrorism?
Acording to global security its :
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence against people or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives"

Acording to dictionary.com its:
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

Now we have this out of the way can anyone tell me what "agressive" tactics are?



Also am I terrorist sympathisor?
Because I care about how our forces look and what they do and that they are not breaking the laws we set down....


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Hell..

Is sounds like a dam good idea to me.. they want to kidnap our guys, so they should feel how we feel because when they have one of our guys that they kidnapped they have no remorse but since its one of their own then they will start to feel what we have been feeling and then hopefully they will come to their senses and say to eachother "if we kidnap someone else then we will have to start worrying about our family members being kidnapped" and maybe they will stop taking people hostage and learn their lesson but either way they will get whats comming to them.

[edit on 6-4-2005 by ShadowMan]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Shadow is kidnapping what you call agressive tactics?
Really am trying to clear this whole "agressive tactics" thing up...
.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Shadow is kidnapping what you call agressive tactics?


So your saying that them kidnapping soldiers and slaughtering them is not "agressive tactics"?

Edit: Hmm...

[edit on 6-4-2005 by ShadowMan]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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It think it is actually a very intelligent idea. The US has already tried torturing captured insurgents, and other suposed terrorists, but lets face it that doesn't work very well. They lie, tell the torturer what they want to hear and then the media finds out and the s#$t hits the fan.

If you listen to the rhetoric of the terrorists, one thing they love saying is that they are so much better than us because they are not afraid to die. But while this is somewhat of a misconception (plenty of soldiers will and have put their lives on the line) on their part, they also have a point. How do you fight someone who doesn't mind dying and probably gets satisfaction from knowing they will die fighting?

Their weakness is their family, as with most men their weakness is their mother. If someone wants to torture me or threaten me, I dont care, it's my life and I dont mind risking it and taking the hit. But if someone takes your family and threatens them, then suddenly your completely helpless, unless you are the coldest hearted bastard in the world, you will probably give up to save your family, after all they didn't ask for it and it was your stupidity in getting involved that brought them into harms way in the first place.

On a side note the Russians in Beirut also had people kidnapped and held for ransom. The Russians just got a terrorist leader, sent bits and pieces of him to the terrorists and he was released unharmed and very quickly. So you see the Americans really aren't that bad, hell they don't get the chance with the entire worlds media examining them under a microscope for the slightest infraction and a bunch of bleeding heart, softie, wimps who got you into the situation in the first place. (Bin Laden saw the US was weak when they couldn't accpet casualties, encouraging him to attack)



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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My heart breaks for this poor murdering insurgent and thanks to Reuters for sticking its nose into an ongoing American military operation.

I can't say that I approve of this tactic, but Reuters is definitely overstepping their bounds by publishing this story at this time.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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I apologize if I may have appeared to have stated in my response that any actual relgious conversions were taking place in the warzone of Iraq (although it says nowhere in my post that I believe these conversion are taking place or stating as fact that they are indeed occuring).

What I said, and mean to clarify to any who may have though differently, was that as a Christian, I hope and pray that maybe there are even a few individuals who can see the attacks they carry out, the carnage they unleash, and the death they mercilessly bring about are not helping anyone. That maybe they will put their weapons down, beg God for forgiveness and try to take on more proactive, and healthier role insociety for the advancement of humankind.

I suppose "detaining" and "taking into custody" family members who are very likely giving some form of support to insurgent attackers may seem somewhat extreme. We still have to take into consideration they are not being sent to Cuba or being sent to Abu Gharib.

For all we know this could be a great big misunderstanding. How much is a phonecard for calls to Iraq, if this guy has a number I would call him myself to find out the truth.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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I can't say that I approve of this tactic, but Reuters is definitely overstepping their bounds by publishing this story at this time.


Yes, after all, if the public knew the truth about the way this war was being conducted, they might be able to make informed decisions about it.

Can't have that!




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