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Pre, or Post Tribulation?

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posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 12:53 PM
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Do you believe the Rapture will come befor the Tribulation?
Why?

Or do you believe the Rapture will come after the Tribulation?
again, Why?


I'm not sure. Basically every movie and book say it will be before, buthow can you be sure. If it is after, while it will be cool to be an underground resistance fighter, the living conditions during the AntiChrist's reign will suck.

Tassadar




posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Tassadar
Do you believe the Rapture will come befor the Tribulation?
Why?

Or do you believe the Rapture will come after the Tribulation?
again, Why?


I'm not sure. Basically every movie and book say it will be before, buthow can you be sure. If it is after, while it will be cool to be an underground resistance fighter, the living conditions during the AntiChrist's reign will suck.

Tassadar
'

I doubt its going to come. Why would God waste his energy destroying the world. We seem to be doing a good job of it ourselves sadly.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 01:01 PM
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Pre.

Main evidence of this to me? That is when the Great Restrainer will be removed from the face of the earth. As that is the Holy Spirit, and as He cannot leave unless the church is taken with Him, that indicates Pre.

Maynard, that is contradictory to what is happening. What is happening is IAW prophesy. It is all coming down as foretold. You say we are doing a good enough job on our own, and that is assuming it is on our own. You forget that there is one who works against God and is more than happy to help us out in our evil and destructive ideas. It might be a bit arrogant to think that all our ideas are actually ours.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 08:04 PM
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I agree with Thomas,

Their is a spirit which is blocking the Anti-Christ from taking total control. When the come up here is sounded with a trumphet that spirit will be removed. Those left who are able to get thru the 7 years or Daniels 70th week will have a chance to enter God's Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heavon.

Michael



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 08:08 PM
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Well, Tassadar, I'm neither.

Mid-tribulationist.

Reasons for not pre:

The rapture will occur on the last trumpet.
I read the martydoms of the apostles and think we haven't any right to think we have merited escaping troubles.

Reasons for not post:

The rapture will occur on the last trumpet.
The Revelation confirms same.


Reasons for being mid:

The rapture will occur on the last trumpet.
The Revelation confirms same.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 08:50 PM
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I definently believe that it will be post/mid tribulation. I think the Holy Spirit holding the anti-christ back is a little too good to be true, so I'm preparing for the worst. The links in my sig. might prove of interest. I feel there's too many eye-witness accounts of guillotines, box cars, and testimonies from people in the know to say it's all a myth... and Pam is willing to talk to those who'll listen.
It says in Rev. 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they (white robed saints) which came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
It is hinting that they were alive during the great tribulation.
Rev. 13:7-10 says that the first beast makes war against the saints.
Those are a few verses.
Besides, Christians throughout the ages have died because of their beliefs. Possibly in the U.S, the Middle East, and I've read in some news articles China, Christians are being persecuted, tortured, and killed for being one.
What makes us think we won't have to suffer martydom too.
Only time will really tell though, but I'm not looking forward to the future...



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 09:03 PM
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Alright, we've cleared it up. It'll either be pre, post, or mid.

Anything else we can help you with?



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 09:53 PM
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OK look, I'm assuming at least some fo the people that posted are Christian, right?
So then we'll be here when the AntiChrist comes, which could be tommorow... Once the Temple of Solomon is rebuilt, the Anti will emmerge and desecrate the Temple and rule from it.

People don't realize it, but the war unfolding in Israel right now is the beginning of the end. If the Jews gain control of the Temple Mount and destroy/move or whatever the Dome of the Rock, they could easily rebuild the temple.
If you believe in pre-tribulation, then you will know before the Rapture happens, right? the Anti is coming.

Tassadar



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 09:59 PM
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Actually, the Temple could be rebuilt without moving the Dome of the Rock. There have been some recent studies which tend to indicate that the Temple was not exactly where everyone thought it to be. The Temple could be rebuilt and stand beside the Dome of the Rock. (I heard about ten feet apart.) As for the Rapture: In my heart, I a pre-tribulation, my gut instinct is for mid-tribulation, my mind says post-tribulation (pre Wrath). There are Bible passages and arguments which support all three positions.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by jagdflieger
Actually, the Temple could be rebuilt without moving the Dome of the Rock.


taking a slightly different tack on this, do you all think the Temple would be rebuilt with full knowledge of what is forecast in Revelations? I know Revelations is Christian, while the reconstruction of the temple is likely to be undertaken by Isrealis, but do you think people will err on the side of caution? if the Temple is never rebuilt, would it hold off the End Times? do you think humans have any control over this? I'm no Bible scholar, so these thoughts are rather uninformed. what do you all think?



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:39 PM
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I have to agree with Tass and Jagd...

The AC will be in power before those in Christ are raptured. We will know his presence.

The last Triump is the final word for the AC and those who still did not accept Jesus.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:39 PM
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I agree with Jags statements concerning the rebuilding of the Temple. In addition, the temple could be initiated and completed within 6 months.

BUT, back to the before-during-after question:

I believe it is some where close to the middle. I think there is an abundance of scripture and logic that would support this.

HOWEVER, it doesn't matter. I learned this several years back when my children and I found ourselves in a VERY life-threatening situation. I kept praying that God would watch over my children and that His will would be done. And about 2 hours into this ordeal I had an epiphany. Instantly it was revealed to me that had I MEANT my prayer I would no longer be praying. God doesn't required repetitiveness.

It was revealed to me that in the end, GOD'S WILL WILL BE DONE. period. And if I have to suffer through the things that we try NOT to think about...could I hold out based on my faith if it meant my children starved to death in front of me (because I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about my children and my grandchildren.)...THAT kind of suffering...If you accept that God's will WILL be done, it doesn't matter. You truly CAN accept what is coming at you. You truly can resolve yourself to the sufferings that could occur...because in the end...EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY!



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:41 PM
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Yes, actually, MorningCrescent is right.


If noone rebuilt the temple, there would be no apocalypse. Of course, like you said, it is mainly the Christians who believe in Revelations, and it would be the Jews who rebuilt the temple.

Of course, there is the other possibility. What if the Dome of the Rock is the temple? The Bible says in the temple, an "Abomination Desecration" will be placed. I'm not hating on the Muslims by saying that, I'm just saying that. I personally don't believe that's the case, but it's a possibility.

Tassadar



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:44 PM
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I may be mistaken, but I believe the Anti- Christ will help in rebuilding the temple. He will usher in the 7 year treaty of peace with Israel and it's enemies-Seemingly real peace will for the first time be had and the world will worship the AC for his efforts at peacemaking. He will have done something that no other has done in history.

The AC will at some time midway (1.5 years?) from this point desecrate the Temple by setting his image (which Revalations fortells)which will speak, upon a throne in the Temple and all will be demanded of to worship it or die.....



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:46 PM
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Im of the opinion that it will be pre tribulation.I just cant see God leaving his people to suffer through such a horrible time.Im pretty sure those days are rapidly approaching though.IMO the revalations 17:14 passage about the saints in the white robes is talking about those who became christians after the rapture and died in the antichrist's purge to get rid of them by way of the guillitione.I dont think that you could really stop the temple being rebuilt if its going to happen.I mean the creation of Isreal as a country was supposedly foretold in the Bible but no one probably raised a hand and said "Hey,Dont you think that we should hold off on that since it does lead to the end of the world?" Not that they were supposed to but you get my point.Either way i really hope that those times are far away because I am way too young for all that to happen.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:51 PM
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That whole 7 year peace treaty isn't in the Bible is it?
I thought it was just an idea for the movie/book series in Left Behind.

Cool story, based off of fact, but a lot of it is fictional.

Tassadar



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:58 PM
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I believe the Temple will be rebuilt because 1) most Jews do not read Revelations, 2) some Jews read Revelations. There are what are called Messianic Jews (Jews for Jesus, Jewish Voice, Dennis Phillips, Lola Levitt) and they actively want the Temple built to fulfill prophecy and bring back Messiah. Remember most people will wear the "mark" in spite of Revelations. Also don't forget that Hassiadic Jews have a lot of political clout in Israel (they are the most Jewish of Jews - keeping to the old traditions and Law). The last time I heard, 24% of Isrealis wanted the Temple rebuilt and the figure is growing.

Here is an interesting bent on the Rapture. Few years back I took a course with my Christian Fellowship studying "Contemporay Ideologies". We studied New Age beliefs as a part of the course (need to know what some of these people believe to be able to witness to them). As part of the New Age study, we read an article from a magazine called "Transcendtal Meditation" which was an interview of a Lord Trevylon (spelling???). In his interview, Lord Trevylon was discussing the "coming new light". He made the statement that there are those "who will not comprehend the New Light" and will be sheparded to a new planetary plane before the arrival of this "new light". I about fell out of my chair when I read this. Here was a New Ager talking about an event which we Christians would call the Rapture.



posted on Jul, 20 2003 @ 10:59 PM
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posted on Jul, 21 2003 @ 01:07 AM
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Pre-Trib is what they would love for you to believe even if it doesn't have a leg to stand on, so they they can orchestrate a fake rapture and have everyone wondering what's up. The Great Restrainer will leave mid-trib, which is when the rapture will occur. The first half of the Tribulation won't be a big deal. Now the last half on the other hand........woe, woe to the earth is right...................



posted on Jul, 21 2003 @ 01:23 AM
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Pre or Mid Tribulation Rapture, one of my fondest desires is to be allowed to come back to earth after the rapture for ONE day only so that I could walk up to those skeptics who sneered at Christians and say, "Told you so".






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