comparison of U.S. V. europe subs

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posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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They are further along than most peoples think in this technology .
I just hope we dont get another liberal group in office to give it away as they gave away our nuclear technology or other technologys as was done in the past. Orangetom




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
They are further along than most peoples think in this technology .
I just hope we dont get another liberal group in office to give it away as they gave away our nuclear technology or other technologys as was done in the past. Orangetom

Its a bit unfair to say the liberal government gave away ALL the tech that was given in the past.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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no its not...not at all Wasp.
It is known in certain circles here in America that the US State department is very Pro communist. Many of their decisions in past history have been in technology transfer approvals to communist governments including for example....ball bearing grinding machines to make minature ball bearings for inertial navigation systems..necessary for the MIRV warhead guidance. this transfer was approved by the US State department to the Russians as non strategic materials. This is how they got multiple independent warhead vehicle ability . This combined with also released computer technology to work with the inertial navigation miniature gyros. Got the point Wasp??
What do you think Condaliza Rice is doing over at the State Department today.? SHe has a daunting task. Huge. The US State department is filled with socialist types and communist sympathizers.
HOwever to be fair about things the Defense Department is filled with Pro Israeli and very right wing conservative types who have tired of years of watching the State Department give way everything they have sacraficed for. Everything is not as seems on the nightly news..they are not looking out for us.
You can find some information on this topic..in "National Suicide" or military aid to the Soviet Union by Anthony Sutton. Also a older book titled "From Major Jordans Diaries" by George Racey Jordan.
Major Jordan records that a overland air route was created during WW2 from Great Falls , Montanna to the Soviet Union the back way and large amounts of war materials and technology were funneled to the Russians across this route including materials for printing US currency. What was of special intrest to me..was the nuclear technology including yellow cake that was shipped by this route in a time when the USA only has a limited amount of this stuff. Major Jordan claims that whenever a hold up took place unacceptable to the Soviets...a A high powered Russian attache in Great Falls made a phone call to the White House to a man named Harry Hopkins. and results and orders were given to facilitate the Russians. Other nuclear support m aterials were given such as high quality stainless tubes...in a time when stainless steel was in limited supply ...not like today.
Also t ransfered to the Russians were the complete blueprints of a industrial site still there today named Electric Boat shipyard in Groton Conn.
To my knowlege Wasp..it is the United States who has kept the Soviet Union afloat through years of failed programs and a world war. While labeling them a cold war enemy. Quite a job of keeping the American public on a string. It is not what it appears to be. I am certain that the same or simlar pattern has occured in the UK just on a diffrent scale. Orangetom



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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This shows me no evidence of "liberal" or "the left" giveing away tech. Just people transfering tech that can go practical to tactical, mind you it was fair game during WW2 since they were our allies....are you trying to suggest not giveing allies tech is a good thing?

Also USSR was not "comunist" so those sympathisors must ethier be very right wing supporters or are not like normal americans and have british political ideals....
is that possible??

This is just a list of opinions...nothing more..



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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I know there are some pro Israeli types in the government and I don't like it, but pro communist? Don’t quite buy that one. Look at what we have done to communist countries in the past.

But I do agree that the Traitor Clinton gave away a lot of Americas secrets.


[edit on 11-4-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
I know there are some pro Israeli types in the government and I don't like it, but pro communist? Don’t quite buy that one. Look at what we have done to communist countries in the past.

But I do agree that the Traitor Clinton gave away a lot of Americas secrets.


[edit on 11-4-2005 by WestPoint23]

There is no comunist countries...unless your meaning the dictators that have been helped over the years using comunism as a viel?



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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What is communist China..when did they become a western type democracy??
Do you honestly think that the banks and buisnesses transfering technology to this nation for profit would not use their influence to transfer more questionable state secrets to them for future contracts??
Remember something never taught to students in schools...Wasp..these buisnesses are loyal to thier profits not to a nation or a flag. This is one of the concepts that they dont dare teach a student.
I for one dont believe the Chinese stole any nuclear secrets from the USA...I think someone here looked the other way while facilitating them. But that is just me. Orangetom



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
What is communist China..when did they become a western type democracy??

A dictatorship.


Do you honestly think that the banks and buisnesses transfering technology to this nation for profit would not use their influence to transfer more questionable state secrets to them for future contracts??

No but I dont see where your going with this...


Remember something never taught to students in schools...Wasp..these buisnesses are loyal to thier profits not to a nation or a flag. This is one of the concepts that they dont dare teach a student.

No we learn it for ourselves and partially learn it.


I for one dont believe the Chinese stole any nuclear secrets from the USA...I think someone here looked the other way while facilitating them. But that is just me.

Then I believe you are wrong.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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Actually the original post was about sonar technology with the accompanying proviso..that I hoped the technology of advanced sonar abilities would not be transfered to countrys with hostile intents to us.
My point is that this happens often in history ..both in war and peace. History is replete with this example and it is more than just buisness. My point is that Government is the facilitator of this type of buisness transaction ...most though not all happening under liberal administrations.
The sad thing to me is that our sons and daughters eventually have to pay the price for this transaction.
It is known that the Kama River truck factory, in Russia, built by Brown and Root, International Harvester,IBM, and Bectel corporations ...funneled some of its trucks to North Vietnam to send supplies down the Ho Chi Ming trail to kill our troops as well as the South Vietnamese. That is my point ..this is not just another sad story ..it is more than that to me and to those who lost loved ones. Dont despair ..it will happen again.
So who is Government really facilitating and why??? NOt the six o'clock version of the news but real information. I notice you did not debate any of my points as being false..but made only cusory general statements about them. That is intresting to me. Thanks Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 02:54 AM
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OT,

I have to say that your shock and surprise at some of the points raised here stuns me.

1) US and USSR cooperated in WW2 - What a shocker!!!
2) US businesses out to make money by selling their product to a buyer who has the cash and wants the product - Stop the presses.

As to the bias of the State and Defence Departments, come on, do you have any actual proof of this or is it simply your opinion?

WP,

I think you will find that calling President Clinton a traitor is illegal and actionable. However, if you want to talk about Presidents who have acted in a manner contrary to the needs of the US and it people, then I am up for that. I can think of two recent ones with names so similar you would think they were related.

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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Wow Bill!!!!

Shocked and surprised.....no ..not hardly...more like disgusted. To those with any knowlege of history ..though it is not a new phenomonon it is not often spoken about or taught in mainline history for what it actually is...Whoredom. The facts are ..though not taught in this light..that it is whoredom and the selling of the souls of a later generation on the altar of whoredom for a profit today.
I am also aware that much of the real history of this world is written in the little known practices of ...Banking ...insurance companys and the manufacturers. They are the ones who because of bad practices..get nations involved in so many foreign wars..after equipping our "allies" who soon enough become our enemies. The history of the British empire is replete with this turn around at the expense of their finest blood. This history is little taught to most nations..though it can be learned by enough research for those dedicated enough to sift through the rubble.
I build aircraft carriers and submarines here..in the States...for a living. It doesnt take much savy .or knowlege of history to know that the Japanese learned to make aircraft carriers from the Brits and Americans in a time when so few nations even had them. To go from a coastal navy ..at best to a blue water navy .is a huge undertaking..for anyone ..for the Japanese to do so in such a short time..including airplanes is a huge leap...huge. This could not be done without outside help. The question begs...why was this done so rapidly...what is the historical justification for this technology whoredom??? Dont worry ..the average shipbuilder with whom I work is more intrested in thier latest sports Gods ..than this line of thinking!! Carte blanche!! Way to deep for the bulk of them.
The Japanese obviously reneged on the loans made by the Brits and Americans...leading to WW2. Huge massive loans made to finance all this technology transfer. Dont worry ..this part is left out of the history books.
This is the same pattern being done today ..with China. Massive loans...to sell technology of the newest type. To India too. What is going to happen if one or both nations reneg on the loans???? Who is going to be the "Repo man"???? Do you ever find this concept taught in any history book?? While boasting of all this high technology and egos???
Is this not in fact what happened to France , Germany , and Russia..in loans to Iraq. Except that we as "Yanks" ..yanked the rug out from under all three of these nations!! What are they going to do..do you blame them for being pissed off at us..??? I dont!! But this is not in the forefront of the news/history per se.
It is this type of whoredom at the expense of a nations finest blood ..that disgusts me and the manner in which it is covered up..from generation to generation....for any nation.
Just a different line of thought than is usually posted on these boards ..Bill..thanks for your time. Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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So wait, your blameing insurance and banking companies for WW2?
And your saying that you have "pulled the rug" from under germany and france and russia?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Callng former President Bill Clinton a "traitor". I dont seem to recall that tack specifically. Can you show me where this transaction took place?? It escapes me at the moment.
However ..yes..I agree with you that this could be said about other presidents or prime ministers./leaders. No doubt. Thanks Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Read the post again ..more deeply..several of my posts. Read them through ..find the common threads...I am talking about whoredom..a system of whoredom ..a very different concept from what most people are able to grasp. Think it through olde man!! Thanks Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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BTW I find it funny that president(GWB) who selling whole US to the China right now is called patriot by many members of this board.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Read the post again ..more deeply..several of my posts. Read them through ..find the common threads...I am talking about whoredom..a system of whoredom ..a very different concept from what most people are able to grasp. Think it through olde man!! Thanks Orangetom

I have been reading it hell I read it like 7 times before even trying to think of a post.
And I aint old mate only 16...


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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ahhh..my apologies olde man..yes..I see ..now I understand..
To my knowlege Olde man is a English phrase and it seems to indicate a certain acceptability. Credentials. Also in the Ham radio world you often see one ham refering to another ham as "Olde Man" indicating that ones bona fides are accepted as a member of the community. It makes no difference about the age. As you can tell , I am a ham radio operator. However ..in deference to what passes for public schooling now days in many countries these customs and traditions ..this knowlege is not being passed on ..even in simple language civilities. This is such a shame as to my knowlege the military is almost the sole repository of certain ancient traditions and civilities. Certain civilities and customs ..respect is required..ie Saluting your seniors ..respecting the uniform.etc. Respectfully maintaining equipment and the knowlege of why this is done. Anything from weapons to band equipment to cooking utinsels. This knowlege and traditions of respect flow through the military community. And rightly so.
You are young devil wasp..that is not to be held against you ..most certainly not. But it is telling in some areas. History and traditions are very important to nations. You will do well to learn some of these trappings of your civilization and why many of these things are so. From the nuances of language to the very daily customs and traditions. The people from whom you have decended...and why they were and thought the way they did. The fruits they have created and you have inherited and why. The military sciences are only a small facet of this thing of which I speak. A important facet no doubt..but not the whole. This is a arena which will not be taught in public school...only biased...perverted smatterings carefully handpicked for a certain result or outcome. You have a computer in front of you ... much of this information is avialable through this medium..Thanks Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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Longbow,
You think GW Bush is running this show..Wow! Presidents and Prime Ministers are a dime a dozen. Research carefully some of the statements about power and the ability to weild power that many of the leaders of nations have made through the years. You will be surprised to see what they have really said. Not only the leaders ..but those who have worked for them.
GW Bush is not powerful enough to be a doorman in the power circles. He has people to whom he answers too.
Check out some of the statements by Benjamin Desraeli the PM of England in the 1840s to 1850s. He makes some telling statements.
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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before closing out for the night..and shoving off to work..think about this.

Who better to be the repository of certain traditions customs and civilities..than warriors...the military ..people who are under dicipline. People who know the price paid when basic civilities no longer work or function. This is why a proper military man is diciplined..humble...proud and upright...yes..but not foolish ..or a cad...but alway respectful. For this history of political failures is know to them along with the price that will be paid.. Orangetom



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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I understand that orange, I think we share a similar way of thinking.....ah for the days when people where honourable (the military does retain this , but they can only transfer so much to the civi street)

Nice talking there mate.....

DW out...





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